Wednesday February 15, 2012

sarcasm123's past comments

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    sarcasm123

    It's not enough to get data one year.

    No, because they will not rest because they know the age of each whale, and its address and telephone number.

    There's a need to constantly update the information for that purpose.

    Yes, and this is not possible with non-lethal purposes. You see: if you don't kill an animal, you might count it twice!! So, we have to kill, count, kill again, count, kill, count. This is the way governments count the population of their country too.

    Thus the data is being obtained from research whaling. And that thus needs to continue until such a time as the required data can be obtained through other means, be it commercial catches or non-lethal methods of research.

    But as david points out, non-lethal methods are not being considered. 30 years of "research"...

    We do if we want to eat whales.

    IF. Even Japanese don't want to eat it. Just hang it in the freezers.

    That precludes the consumption of whales, and therefore isn't a "best way" at all.

    Yet, consumption does not seem to be the goal, as the meat has to be given to schools or put into freezers... The goal seems to be: keep the local politician elected, and keep him pump money into the small village.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Iceland meanwhile catches whales commercially now, and recently started shipping whale meat to Japan (despite the lack of demand?)

    Or because the politician gave the village some money to buy a bigger freezer?

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Well, natural mortality rates for fish and whales are estimated using techniques such as statiscal analysis of catch-at-age data, or virtual population analysis (VPA).

    These are big words for people who have no real interest in fisheries management, which I presume includes yourself.

    Don't worry about me, my dear, worry about your explanation.

    Catch-at-age data requires... lethal methods.

    Yet it is not called "killed-at-age", is it? "catching" it would seem to be enough to do e "CATCH-at-age" study.

    If it were possible to age a whale without killing it, then the same work could be done with non-lethal methods,

    ... yet that would lead to a reduction in "finished product", right? :P

    but to date the anti-whaling camp has failed to produce a method that both works, and is feasible.

    Or, to put it the other way: these very smart researchers who have been doing research for 30 years now have not even devoted 1 second to thinking about an alternative way to do this study, in a non-lethal way, right?

    No, because thinking like that might lead to real research, and not... well, "finished product", right?

    I see, david, I see :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    That's because the whaling association wants to promote consumption of whale. Imagine a whaling association that didn't have any information at all about it's products on it's website!

    Yet the information is not presented in English...??? Seems like they are focussing on a very small target population for their "wares" then! :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Its because age can be ascertained by examining a dead whale, but there are no effective ways to measure that while they are alive.

    Of course I have heard this explanation (or "excuse") many times. However, I have never heard of similar excuses from studies on other animals. Why is it necessary to kill whales to get this data, yet not for other species?

    Or, at least, why do the Japanese want us to believe so? :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    part of the regulations on the "research" whaling is that the whale not go to waste, it must be consumed.

    Of course, I know. But killing an animal and freeze its carcass for forever does seem like a waste to me...

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Also, I wonder why it is necessary for the Japanese FAQ of the JWA to have information on restaurants serving whale meat, how to prepare it, etc...

    I kid you not.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    plus: why is that information not presented in English too? Don't they want to share their Oh-So-Great-Japanese-Culture with the entire world? :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    The present IWC membership is 88 nations. Among them, the number of countries supporting whaling tends to increase in these days.

    But it cost us Japanese quite a lot of money :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    So, in order to research whale natural mortality rates, Japan started killing whales for research. :P

    So, david, can you explain to us how lethal research is going to help us understand these natural mortality rates? Or am I really going to be the first to read one of these "research" papers? :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    The IWC was established in 1948 under the ICRW concluded in 1946. Initially it started with 15 whaling nations but began to give a stronger emphasis to conservation of whales since the 1960s when the Netherlands and the United Kingdom stopped whaling after their whaling industry was no longer profitable because of over-exploitation of whales.

    Those Bad bad bad foreigners!

    From the latter half of the 1970s, new members seeking solely to ban whaling joined the commission, resulting in the passage of a commercial whaling moratorium in 1982 by their majority vote.

    Yet we Japanese fought back and paid lots of money to some African and Asian countries to support us! Now suddenly countries that have never whaled in their history are suddenly die hard whaling fans! Isn't that a coincidence!!

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Really, I recommend everyone to have a look at these FAQs on these "researchers" website: http://www.whaling.jp/english/qa.html

    They are incredible. How any sound person can believe a single word of that is beyond me.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    There are two broad types of research which are conducted into whales. Non-lethal and lethal. There are advantages and disadvantages associated with both lethal and non-lethal methods.

    For example: the disadvantage of non-lethal methods is that the sample can not be eaten afterwards.

    For example, non-lethal methods are inadequate for population research of whales, as well as other marine life, but is suitable for examining whale behaviour in slow-swimming species.

    ... this is because we in Japan have never heard of small sonars that could mark specimens already counted. Japan is really lagging behind in the field of electronics, you see.

    A large range of information is needed for the management and conservation of whales, such as population, age structure, growth rates, age of maturity, reproductive rates, feeding, nutrition and levels of contaminants. This type of important information cannot be obtained through small DNA samples or analysis of organochlorine, but only through lethal research.

    ... or at least, it cannot be done by us, Japanese, but it can be done by others apparently. However, Japan has no culture of eating only DNA samples. We have a culture of eating whale meat. At least, that is what we want others to think.

    The Japanese whale research program has obtained valuable information on whales by using non-lethal and lethal research.

    Yes, so valuable that no good journal wants to publish them.

    It has also enabled us to calculate the amount of fish consumed by whales - which is approximately between 280 million tonnes and 500 million tonnes per year. In contrast, humans harvest around 90 million tonnes of fish each year.

    That is why the seas around Japan are basically deserts. Every year these whales come from the South pole and eat all our maguro. We have to kill more whales, or all fish will be endagered soon!

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    The data necessary for the management of the whale resources must show changes in trends over time. Continuous sampling is indispensable to enhance the accuracy of the research.

    Read: if we don't collect samples every year we won't have data on how many samples we killed!

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    There is need to carry out the research every year as the number of samples collected and the area surveyed by one cruise per year is very limited, particularly given the size of the Antarctic Ocean.

    ... and particularly given the low number of specimens available, many of which are endangered.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    The research is carried out by the Institute of Cetacean Research (ICR), a semi-governmental organization of the Japan Fisheries Agency, established in 1987.

    ... previously known as the Japanese commercial whaling organisation.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    In the research program, the vessels are run on a predesigned track formulated by scientists,

    scientists who were working as commercial whalers a few decades ago.

    and conduct surveys and collects specimens such as earplug and ovaries.

    Then they divide the number of earplugs by 2 in order to calculate the number of specimens they have killed, and add that to their mortality rate data :P

    After scientific examination and removal of tissue and organ samples,

    Read: after removal of anything that cannot be eaten.

    the remains of the whales are frozen and marketed in compliance with the provisions of the Convention, which forbid any part of the carcass to be wasted.

    Read: most of it is frozen and stored, because nobody really wants to eat this. Carcasses are frozen until schools are found that allow their students to eat it, because it is cheap.

    However, as the cost of research is expensive, the proceeds from sales of whale meat and parts alone cannot cover the costs. The Government of Japan pays the remainder of the costs.

    Read: there is no market for whale meat, as the eating of whale meat was never really popular in Japan anyway. So, the government has to pump money into it in order to keep the local happy. In return, the locals produce fake research papers.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Anti-whaling proponents have tried to label the research catch as commercial whaling in disguise,

    ... and most Japanese agree with that opinion. :P

    but this is a tactic to discredit the research effort.

    The effort is nearly non-existing.

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    Many members of the IWC Scientific Committee recognize the importance of the research, and value highly their results. However, during the past several years, the IWC anti-whaling majority has repeatedly passed resolutions calling on Japan to reconsider the current research catch and insisting that research should be limited to non-lethal methods.

    Yeah, the scientific community recognize the Japanese "research" so much that they have to struggle to get their papers published in even low impact journals. Nobody reads them, and none of them get cited ever. :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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    sarcasm123

    I think that comment was to say "we wouldn't hunt whales if they were all endangered". But they aren't.

    In fact, according to david, none of the whales are endangered, not even that endangered one that was in the news recently. The one found in the US restaurant. Do you remember, david? :P

    Posted in: Australia to take Japan to int'l court over whaling

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