JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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tigermoth
Well, this comment and a very many recorded here present a prime reason why some nations feel it necessary to make denial of the Holocaust a crime. To hear some of you talk the concentration camps were summer resorts and the systematic liquidation of a group of people a mere exaggerated inconvenience. Many of you seem to be into fact gathering to prove a point - try doing some. The Holocaust was very real, and very, very horrible. Was it systematic killing?? Well, ever heard of the Wanasee conference (check spelling on that - not my strong suit)? It was indeed systematic and planned genocide on a grand scale. The 6 million number will always be in dispute, but in the context of human suffering and cold-blooded murder there are few events in history of its equal. And another reason the Holocaust is viewed in the reverence of extreme horror is that while history is full of examples of different types of atrocity, this one was perpetrated by a twentieth century, supposedly civilized society.
History is constantly re-written by those who start denial campaigns or implant seeds of doubt - even if there are no sound reasons, or their research is flawed or just wrong. I'm sure the thought process was/is that something this horrible must not be repeated, and the memory of those who died kept whole. Conspiracy theorists and anti-semites (and there seem to be many will undoubtedly see something sinister, but I think it's nothing more than a strong desire for it to naver happen again.
Posted in: Netanyahu hits back at Iran Holocaust claims
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tigermoth
He sort of looks like a cross between Prince (or whatever his name might currently be) and Michael Jackson with the wardrobe of a Bedouin pimp. I like it. The UN is a joke so the jester seemed quite appropriate to me. By 'King of Kings' perhaps he has taken over for Budweiser. Oh sorry, that's 'king of beers'.
Posted in: Gadhafi gives grand performance at U.N.
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tigermoth
I think the kiss of death for me with Palin was when she was asked what newspapers she read, seemed confused and replied (if I recall correctly) 'all of them' or something silly. While these days with the media being so biased one way (usually left) or the other it is difficult to find one that is truly a good and fair news source, she certainly has to have ones that she does read to be considered as a candidate. I would have felt more at ease if she had said the 'Moose Droppings Times' or whatever the local rag for her was. If nothing else a politician opting for high office must be informed (well, smart would be a help as well - although some of the smart ones have proved to be real idiots).
Posted in: Palin resurfaces in Hong Kong for speech on U.S.-China relations
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tigermoth
sorry, was the right word. had it typed in two places - time to home!
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
perpetuated should read purpotrated above - although both could be true
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Firstly, you would have to show me where Bush actually accused McCain of having a black child. As for the gorilla comment, I wouldn't be surprised if some arse did indeed say this. But one comment, two comments, a couple of dozen, a few hundred or a few thousand - that still doesn't justify a blanket denunciation and proclomation of party-wide racism. What you're trying - rather uneloquently - to say is that party demographics would conclude that overall individuals that display racist tendancies/thinking - whatever - come from the vestiges of the far right. I would concede that as true - but to me that is different than just concluding that because you're a republican you must therefore be racist.
Let's put it another way. I used to live in our Nation's capital back when it was dubbed the 'murder capital of the world' because of a record number of homocides. Now I should go back and look up recorded statistics to back this up, but I'm confident in saying that the majority of the homocides in the city were perpetrated by black males. The easy conclusion would be to say that black males in Washington, DC were a bunch of violent murderers - right? Well, no that's not quite right. Most of this violence centered around the drug trade and involved deals gone bad, rivalry, etc. And by happenstance the low income neighborhoods where these murders mainly took place were predominantly African American. But to suggest that all African Americans in the city were somehow responsible, likely doing drugs, or violent murders is untrue, unfounded and in fact could be determined as racist.
Fifty, forty, even thirty years ago your statment might have more validity. The white, middle class 'Leave it to Beaver' neighborhoods were bastions of white, republican racism to be sure. But that's not the case today. I have good, close friends from both spectrums and find none of them to be particularly racist, but rather thought specific on certain issues, whether it be defense spending, education, immigration, abortion, etc.
I stand by my thoughts that no one - including Carter - has proven to me the Wilson's comments were nothing more than a passionate politician doing what they too often do best - being crass, rude and without class.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Perhaps they should let him travel to Poland and spend some time at Auschwitz.
Posted in: Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial
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tigermoth
Actually tigermouth, I think you are helping Wilson correct those lies about the and fine southern gentlemen like Wilson and Forest. Keep that flag flying in South Carolina! Well that is what Wilson believes!
Well done, keep showing everyone else that there is no racism in America, Carter was lying.......LOL
Who said there is no racism in America?? I certainly didn't, in fact my postings state the opposite - that rather those claiming not to be (mainly liberal dems) are in fact as racist as their Republican counterparts. Black folks are as racist as white folks. Hell, some people just hate everyone equally.
Everyone seems intent on making grandiose statements about how racist the republican party is and how rightious Jimmy Carter is. Throw in the usual hatred for Rush Limbaugh, some inane comments about someone calling the First Lady a gorilla. Dancing around the issue and doing your own political grandstanding; 'hey, look how smart I am'. Great for you, but not germaine to the question at hand: was Wilson's comment racist, and was JC correct in calling him on it?
I suppose the point that the libs on here are trying to hammer home is that the Republican Party is racist. Fine, concede; they're racist. In truth [difficult for most to admit for all of you I'm sure] so are those of you crying foul, so is the NAACP, etc. etc. etc.
So the 'logic' tree of your thinking follows thusly:
Repbulican = Racist Southerner = Racist Wilson - Republican/Southerner = Big time racist
Carter = Sotherner Background to formula; family owned plantation, former slave owners, endentured servitude post-war, on segregated board of education therefore should = Racist -BUT- Subtract for hypocracy, so Carter/Southerner therefore Racist - Dem/builds houses for the poor = Non-racist yet adept at condemning those who he perceives certainly are based on criteria that should make him therfore a racist (by your own theories).
Hmmmmm. Glad you're all so logical.
Oh, I see - because he's part of 'habitat for humanity' then he must be correct. Gotcha. Because there has never been any example of a statesman,the famous, or anyone else doing good deeds yet being less than model citizens otherwise.
Conclusions; there is no evidence other than somewhat flawed theory that Wilson's remarks were racist, but it will be concluded that they are because (a) he's white; (b) he's republican; and the trifecta (c) He's southern. That condemns quite a few people. Isn't stereotying in this manner one of the high signs of racism in the first place, and why it's condemned by the thinking as idiotic?
But I'm sure you're going to tell me that I'm wrong. Zurc - just don't mention the Michele Obama/Gorilla thing again as I heard you the first fifteen times and fail to see the relevance of that one particular vulgar comment.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Actually I've read that the number of people who believe the nonsense that the holocaust never happened is on the rise. The main reason I think is that the Jewish people traditionally have not endeared themselves (through no fault of their own to a large degree) to a good portion of the world, and the old anti-semetism is still a strong hold. And now younger generations who weren't around in the 1930's and 40's don't see how it could have happened. The true evil and horror of Germany's 'final solution' against the Jews, gypsies, etc and any politicl oponent becomes a thing of myth and disbelief. It most certainly wasn't a myth for the millions who died at the hands of the Nazi Germany. Ahmadinejad simply hates Jews and tries to play up the notion that the holocaust never happened to belittle their claims to land (Israel). Why other faux historians go along with this is mystery. People can find 'fact' to support any claim that they wish and there always will be a certain number of stupid people who believe them. Stupidity is man's downfall in repeating events of history when lessons should have been learned. The evidence is there - not faked, not doctored, not a figment of the Jewish imagination. It happened, it's real and it was even more horrible than most realize. I'd always say that opposing opinions are a person's right and business - but in my opinion if you deny an event of this magnitude that was so life-devastating to so many people you are indeed an idiot. And for those who ask how Iran could elect such an idiot? Well, we do it all the time as do most countries. He'll go away in a few years.
Posted in: Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial
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tigermoth
I'm arguing for Republicans here and I don't believe I particularly qualify as one, but that's part of the issue. Zucronium is an extreme example of this as his/her hatred of the right has him/her in a froth that I don't think anyone could get through with reason, but both sides - right and left - are guilty of this. Pick out the extremsists and then assume that those are the fundamental beliefs of everyone in that particular party. Every Republican must worhship Rush Limbaugh and therefore he is their mouthpiece. I for one don't believe that as truth. Most Americans fall somewhere in between the two extremes. They might agree with their so-called 'spokesmen' on some fundamental issues, but certainly not all. The politicl assumption is cookie cutter carbon copies. While that is true in some instances, I think it more likely their are more shades of gray. Plus we have an obvious tendancy these days to misinterpret what exacty should be construed as racism.
Which brings us back to the point. In listening to the statements made by Carter (posted up in a link by JoBigs above somewhere) I wonder if we're just misunderstanding carter to a degree. Or he's confusing himself. He talks about racism agains President Obama, but talks more about instances that clearly were - cartoons of the President with a bone through his nose, comparisons to Hitler, etc. He seems to use the Wilson incident as a method to conclude that yes there is a great deal of racism in the world today, and too much directed towared our president. And I think he expresses surprise that someone would be so disrespectful in shouting out at the President and calling him a liar. It's sort of like how Zucronium keeps going off about someone calling the First Lady a gorilla. That's a horrible thing to be sure, but has nothing to do with Wilson. The question here, which some still seem want to really understand, is not whether racism exists, nor whether some of it is directed towards the first black President - but rather was Wilson's comment toward the statement of the President's policy on health care to illegal immigrants racist. If that's what Carter was indeed concluding, he was wrong.
He did have a very good point though in comparing the meeting with congress and how in the British Parliament they yell out such things, but would never do so to the Queen as head of state. He concludes that as our head of state, the President should be afforeded the same respect, and he's right. Although one has to admit that no matter how much you hated his policies, this respect was not granted to former President Bush. And while you will all scream that he didn't deserve it, by Carter's own words the office alone demands such respect. You can't have it both ways guys - is former President Carter the wise and correct sage you claim,or is he wrong?
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
JoBigs - I watched the video of Jimmy Carter explaining his point, and fail to see where that proves Wilson's comments were in any way racist. Carter talks about the "fringe elements" and goes on to describe those who make cartoons of the President, compare his to Hitler, say he should be 'buried with Kennedy', etc. Those deplorable statements are a far cry from someone in congress stating 'that's a lie' to a stated policy that he happened to disagree with. Republican/Democrat aside, issue aside - that simply is not racist. Glad the President agrees with that. Shows he's smarter than most as well.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
**Stop the Presses!!! **- Jimmy Carter has now been published as stating that Kanye West's actions were "completely uncalled for" - does that means that since Jimmy is white and Kanye is black that the comment was racist?!
No less rediculous I should think.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
What?? Your comments are always far too emotionally charged - which would be okay if they were logical and made any real sense. The article, and question at hand is whether Wilson's comments were racist, per Carter's remarks. I didn't hear Wilson say anything about apes, aliens or terrorists. There are radical wackos in the Republican party, just as there are in your party as well. You take a few quotes and make blanket generalizations, which is unfair and nonsensical. Granted it can be a stretch, but actually think about what you say (write) rather than just depending on your strong emotional hatred of the right. If you put all of the comments you mentioned together, the people who uttered these horrible remarks would be a very miniscule segment of the population. To make a blanket statement that all on the right fit this profile because of those remarks is lame at best and in fact rather counter-productive. Racism in the first place was and is peretuated by those same types of stereotypes and blanket conclusions; 'a black man shot another man - therefore all black men are criminals and killers'. Just because your directing this at a differnt segment of the population makes it no less ignorant.
Ummm - doesn't this fly in the face of your argument that Jimmy Carter is not a racist himself? You can't get much 'deeper South' than Georgia. So by this comment your concluding that Carter is a racist, and is just clever enough to hide it. Or does the rule only apply to Republicans?
I get the feeling that many of you from the left on here are a bit younger in age. Why else would you assume that the left and the Democratic party is any less racist than the Right/Republicans? Oh, it's 'cool' (or whatever the current moniker is) to pretend like you're so open minded and believe 'all are equal man!'. But somewhere down the road you've locked your door when going through a 'bad neighborhood' that was likely mostly minority - or avoided going through it all together. Famous example - Hollywood is THE den of liberalism;of course not a soul there is racist. How many black actors are there making it big? How many movies featuring them? The numbers would tell the tale rather nicely.
Flip that around. In how many predominently black neighborhoods are white people welcomed with open arms? How many times in my life have I been called 'that white boy?' (a great many).
The point (yes, there is one): racism exists. It always has and always will. Some people - left, right, center, upside down - can't get past this. It happens - not all the time, but it happens. BUT, the way to end it is not to make conslusions and accusation that every comment made against a person is not based on racial issues. This is true particularly in the political arena, and with the man who hold the highest office in the land. The President of our country has always been open to the closest of scrutiny, and harsh denouncement from political oponents from the other side. If your a black American and you made a comment against George Bush's policies, would that make you a racist? Of course not. Why is Wilson's comment seen in a different light? Because he's a politician, I think it even less strange that he would have these thoughts - just unfortunate that he chose to air them in such a manner. Is it because he's from the South? Then you've condemned your boy Carter as a racist, and any liberal democrat from the south must be as well. If Carter is making the assumption that based on his 'knowledge' of southern men - being one himself - that Wilson certainly is a racists, then his conclusions would condemn himself as one as well. His family owned a plantation after all.
The truth is, Carter likely is not a racist; you can be southern and not be a card carrying member of the KKK. There's a thing called education which is the process of bettering your mind and soul so that you lose the nasty habbit of generalizing and stereotyping, and open your mind to free thinking and realization of universal truths. Mr. Carter is certainly a smart man and an educated man followed that path. So wouldn't it be a tad bit hypocritical to brand others based on region of birth?
Not everything said negatively against the President is racist - plain and simple. If you believe that, well - there's no point in even arguing the point in that case.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
This is true, but the question these days seems to be - how? If you say it and it's negative - it's racist seems to be the mantra these days.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Klein2 - In retrospect, my anamosity towards Jimmy Carter does stem from his thrashing of the economy which lead to high unemployement and my father's loss of his job. And before you might suppose - he was let go because of economics - not performance (later hired back because they couldn't do his job - for less money). My father voted for Carter; never liked him much afterwards, and even as a kid it left a bitter taste seeing the family go through this. Perhaps with less jaundiced glasses I can see that he's done a fair amount of good as well, so I'll relent a bit on this.
But having said that, and my point with the racism thing being that yes to a degree we all exercise less than stellar behavior at times (white, black, brown, red), that particular comment on that particular day was policy driven and not race driven. Not every remark again President Obama - who I voted for mind you - is racism. And it's being called far too often. It was even suggested at one time that folks like Letterman, etc would not poke fun because they would be labeled racists. Carter's remark is off-base and supports this failed thinking. As a white man I should be able to call my President to task if I feel need (although certainly not yelling insults and calling him a liar; just not cool) without being branded a racist for doing so. What kind of decomracy does that promote? And it certainly shouldn't be a liberal agenda to promote this as I always thought one of the high marks of the liberal cause was to promote freedom of speech. I always held high regards for that - but what, it doesn't count if a white man says it and the target of the comment is non-white? Even if it involves policy? That I don't agree with nor understand how you can defend it.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Well, yes. It was his attempt to vilify Wilson as an 'evil Republican racist', which only helps is party.
Well, why shouldn't I care if that's my goal? I care in the sense that some idiot politician screaming 'you lie' and another politician should not be labeled as racist simply because the person to whom the remark was directed is black. That only perpetuates the problem of racism. My opinion.
I won't pretend to be some golden boy who's so forward thinkning that at times I'm not a racist. I am. So are you. So is Jimmy Carter. So is Barrack Obama. So are we all. It's human nature, as unpleasant as that might be. We need to work out of that together. Wilson's comment wasn't based on race, and this type of crap - now perpetuated by the former president - doesn't help.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Klein2 you seem intent on provocation and insults; I'm intent on sane, rational discussion, which is what this area is for. You keep claiming that Republicans - which you are convinced I am one of; and hood wearing almost seems to be the implication! - are emotional and illogical in their right-wing arguments, while you seem to be practically frothing at the mouth. You also don't seem to understand the Queen's English, which I think that I speak fairly well. My implication was not that all New Yorkers are racist, nor that all Southerners are racist - but rather that it exists in all quarters equally, and conversely to assume someone is racist or not racist because of geographical locaion or even party affiliation is idiotic.
Racism is alive and well in this country - and by that I mean from all races; white against black, black against white, Asian against hispanic. It's everywhere. Did I see racism being from the south - oh, you better believe it. But I saw hope as well. In college - in the south - the Klan wanted to march but ran in fear when folks of all color banded together and contronted them head on. You ask if I'm racist. I grew up in a family where my granparents would use the 'N' word in front of an African American like they were speaking about someone not there. A thinking man comes to realize that this isn't normal behavior and thought process, and learns that a person is a person and we all suffer the same. I honestly wouldn't have given a thought about President Obama being black if it weren't rammed down our throats every day by those like you who claim racism if someone dares question anything he does. My goal is to have a world where no one cares. You pretend that is your goal, but folks like you and Jimmy Carter use it as a political tool to further your party needs and make the opposition a bunch of evil racist fools. Who's more racist?
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
How do you know what type of a man I am or might be? Name-calling and anger in arguments only proves that you know what you're saying is rubbish. Simply put, and without insulting the man, the shortcomings of Carter's administration far outweigh the good. Rankings of administrations have him as low as #34. You can argue, and possibly be right, that he's a good humanitarian, and a good person. He was not a good president. And of course you have to throw Bush in. Yes, yes, okay he was lousy. I didn't vote for him, and so what? Has nothing to do with the article and Carter calling someone a racist based on nothing except the fact that he's a member of the opposing party. Smith - I'm surprise at you on this one in supporting him on this. Usually your arguments are at least an attempt at unemotional reasoning.
Okay - you guys tell me how your beloved Jimmy is right, and that a politician uttering 'you lie' about another politician in an arena of government (and no matter how inappropriate the outburst was from a decorum point of view) is racist? Because he's from South Carolina? Then Carter is racist as well. That's all I'm saying by 'bashing' him is that your reasoning is flawed.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
"As a noted anti-semite..."
Smith I was making a point - which you rather smuggly ignore - that the pot calling the kettle black holds a bit less merit. Have you read Carter's book on Palestine? Interpretation is up to the reader I suppose but he seems to spend much time on the plight of the Palestinians without considering the relevance of the years of the Second World War through the the latter 1940's where the Holocaust had a huge influence on the desire to see a Jewish state. It has been deemed by many (of course, many are Jewish scholars - I'm neither) that his book is clearly pro-Palestinean and anti-Jewish. I would tend to agree, and while a do think the Palestineans got a raw deal, you have to understand the politics of the regions from the standpoint of history to know that the problem isn't simply a matter of 'stolen land'. By almost ignoring the holocaust in his book, Carter did a diservice to Jews, and given the relevance of six million or so of your race being murdered you might see that as an offense, and perhaps anti-semetic as well. Claiming that ommission as anti-semetism hold more weight than calling a politician a racist for telling a fellow politician that he's lying on an issue.
You keep chasing 'tales' as well Smith, as the ones you tell are often as good as any that Aesop could muster.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'
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tigermoth
Zucronium you make far too many assumptions based on your emotional hatred of those who disagree with your beliefs and thoughts - which is rather ironic since this type of assumptive thinking is what helps perpetuate racism to begin with. I'm not a Republican per say, but your assumption is that anyone so deemed is a slack-jawed moron. Categorizing people's intelligence levels based on their political leanings is simple party bashing on a level of a barroom brawl. I'm originally from the south, and we get the same sort of stereotypical nonsense. If you're from the south then you've likely inbred with cousins and are automatically racist. When I moved to NY I discovered that just as many people here (if not more) are just as vehemently racist (and a great many of them are dems by the way), but just better at denying it.
Following nonsensical logic such as what you have exercised, we should determine that since Carter is a white man from the south, he's automatically racist and disqualified from speaking out on someone else's racism. All Republicans are neo-nazi racist power mongers and of course by your twisted stereotypical thinking all dems are pot smoking hippy wannabee, commie freaks. Okay, that's sound thinking.
Did I miss something? I didn't hear the word 'boy' except in the minds of those like you who see evil behind anything you don't agree with. Are we that juvenile in our political reasoning that if you are of the opposing party you must call the 'other side' names like a pathetic child? Fear naught as you're not alone in this practice. No wonder other nations think that we're idiots. When we disagree with each other one side is automatically a bunch of nazi racists. Give me a break - and grow up a bit. And Carter is no better as he did the same thing. He really does need to go back to growing peanuts and leave wisdom to someone who has intelligent thought.
Posted in: Carter: Wilson comments toward Obama 'based on racism'