JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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To be healthy, live in the big city
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2
Teacher nabbed for using miror to peek up girl's skirt
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Japan's nuclear safety standards flawed, says commission chief
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4
From carnivores to herbivores: how men are defined in Japan
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Why do Japanese change their attitude when they communicate with foreigners?
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- English Instructor (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe)
- Berlitz Japan, Inc. (ベルリッツ・ジャパン株式会社), Kansai
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- FT English Teachers for Kids - Osaka
- Kohgakusha Co., Ltd. （株式会社興学社）, Osaka
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- Translator
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- Salary: ¥6.0M / Year Negotiable
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yabits
At issue is the ONE briefing with the CIA that Pelosi attended late in 2002 -- where she claims that the CIA told her they had not used waterboarding. The facts show that the CIA was torturing at the time they misled members of Congress. Straight-shooter Senator Bob Graham's account squares with Pelosi's.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
That's right. Get her up there and put her under oath.
Then do the same with Bush and Cheney.
We'll find out who lied to the American people.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
Who should we believe: Pelosi or the CIA? One writer's litmus test is as follows:
"It's easy! If the CIA says one thing and former Sen. Graham says another, then the CIA is lying. Or, "in error," if you prefer.
"(Background here and here, in which Graham says that some of the briefings in which he was allegedly filled in about waterboarding and related techniques never occurred. This matters, because the CIA's claims are part of the same argument that Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats in Congress had known about and acquiesced to waterboarding all the way along.)
"Part of the payoff of reaching age 72 and having spent 38 years in public office, as Graham has, is that people have had a chance to judge your reputation. Graham has a general reputation for honesty. In my eyes he has a specific reputation for very good judgment: he was one of a handful of Senators actually to read the full classified intelligence report about the "threats" posed by Saddam Hussein. On the basis of reading it, despite a career as a conservative/centrist Democrat, he voted against the war and fervently urged his colleagues to do the same. "Blood is going to be on your hands," he warned those who voted yes."
Source: http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/05/theciavssenbobgrahamhow.php
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
Those expressing a similar degree of ignorance about interrogation techniques as the one above might be well advised to read about the successful cracking of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's inner circle. It was conducted by true experts and involved no torture whatsoever. And those who hung around Zarqawi are as bad as they come.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200705/tracking-zarqawi
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
It's an excellent question, Taka. And worth remembering that, at one time, the United States placed people on trial for war crimes for using such methods of interrogation.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
One can easily see the lack of moral reasoning behind that premise: "We are damned if we do anyway, so let's be as brutal as we can be. Let's be every bit the cruel, morally depraved lunatics that our enemies are."
Actually, the premise is false. No nation gets painted in a poor light for treating captives humanely. On the contrary.
It is natural that those without the mental or moral capacity to win hearts and minds will want to resort to the quick and easy method of simply blowing people away. After all, that's what they do.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
With the Bush administration, all you had to do was show integrity of character and independent thought. That was enough to make anyone a threat to them. Ask those Dept of Justice attorneys.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
sailwind asks a "simple question": "You have a man you have captured with knowledge of plots to kill you, major plots, you give him ice cream and candy?"
First of all sailwind's logic makes it seem that the only option besides torture is "ice cream and candy." Yes, I have imagined that there are morally depraved people who would go so far as to equate a refusal to torture with "appeasement." Of course, this type of amoral thinking is very similar to the thinking of the enemy.
The answer to the simple question is quite obvious: Use the most effective means developed and proven over the years to elicit information from someone under your control. It is definitely psychological and definitely does not involve physical torture.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
That is not what is being alleged. What Pelosi is saying that, at the 2002 briefing, the CIA claimed that they had not yet used the technique of waterboarding, when in fact they had. A neutral observer would not fail to note how the Republicans have been twisting this.
In the political climate that existed in 2002-2003, I do not blame anyone in the minority party for running out and exposing what evils were being done to those captured and suspected of being with Al Qaeda. This is what makes the Republicans even more hypocritical, if not outright sick.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
The other quesion -- the BIG one -- is how much farther into moral depravity is the United States prepared to sink? The irony to me is that so many of these far right-wingers will claim that the US is a "Christian nation." As far as I can read it, stuff like waterboarding is as far away from genuine Christian morals as one can get.
Anyone who would accept torture as being "good for the country" will easily accept lying too. And yet on this issue, Republicans are making it appear that Pelosi was insisting that prisoners be waterboarded. At least, that is the way they are portraying her role in this.
And why? All she wanted was a "truth commission" to get to the bottom of this waterboarding stuff. If Pelosi has that much to fear about her role in all of this, it seems to me a truth commission would be the last thing she would want. No, the real liars are elsewhere.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
AlphaApe writes: "decisions are not made based on party loyalty, but on what is good for the country. If I only did my job effectively becuase an R. was in office and not as well becuase a D. was, then I need to be kicked out."
"What is good for the country" as determined by those who are often taken to playing God, and see themselves as morally superior when in fact they are morally depraved. For the United States to have become the international disgrace it has, and a traitor to its own moral standards, all it took was some sick and twisted individuals in positions of power claiming that what they did was for the "good of the country."
Sure, keep stepping down that ladder one rung at a time. Pretty soon, none of us will able to distinguish our domestic terrorists from our foreign ones.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
Alphaape writes: "If they were just some innocent that was to be set up for a crime that the didn't do so that they confessed, then I would probably say that waterboarding is wrong and those who did this should be thrown in jail."
So, you are essentially saying that torture is OK as long as the person is suspected of being guilty of something.
People who torture and who are in a legal position to advocate torture are guilty and should be thrown in jail.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
You bet they are! They've got their little Republican lapdogs out spreading the lies, and those on the left wringing their hands about what Pelosi should have done.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
Pelosi claims that, during the ONE briefing she attended in 2002, she was told that waterboarding was not being used.
Like the CIA and Republicans who pulled the strings at that time aren't capable of lying for political gain. Suuuuure.
Release the minutes of the 2002 meeting and let's see who is lying.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
alphaape asks: "Do you now, or have you ever worked for the U.S. Government?" In a word, yes. The level of security clearance I held was very high, and let's just say I know enough to know better than the average person the kind of stuff that goes on.
That is a baseless assumption. In an Administration like Bush's -- extremely partisan, closed, and prone to using misinformation to their own benefits -- it is not safe to assume anything about the people they didn't want to let in on the truth.
The fact is that Pelosi was off of the Intelligence Committee as of January of 2003. The CIA records show their explicit discussions of "waterboarding" as occurring after that time. Prior to that the language was "enhanced interrogation techniques" -- which can and does include lots of other things.
The Republicans are the ones looking silly. They are on Pelosi precisely for her proposal to get the truth of this out there. The whole truth. That would include exactly what she knew and when she knew it. It is very obvious that this whole Republican circus is nothing but a diversionary tactic. They are not immune to things like blowing the cover of one of their covert agents for purposes of political retribution.
For someone who thinks they know better, you don't seem to be too able to connect the dots.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
It's like saying you expect Republicans to tell the truth. Very dumb indeed.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
It is laughable that the Republicans' accusation is that Pelosi was complicit with the Repubican's use of torture. Complicity with Republican policy would render anyone unfit to lead.
Only in this case, Pelosi's pointing out that the CIA was misleading Congress is more accurate.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
LOL!! People who don't want to see will remain blind.
So far, what Pelosi has said has squared with CIA records. One meeting in 2002, before any records of waterboarding were mentioned. No evidence whatsoever put forward by the Republicans. Just false accusations.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding
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yabits
And I'm sure that Palin's journalistic efforts have always brought delight to the shack happy.
Posted in: Palin memoir due out next year
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yabits
Since there is no record of waterboarding being mentioned at the meeting Pelosi attended, the liars are the Republicans. Par for the course.
Posted in: Pelosi says CIA misled her on waterboarding