Morons

So much for reducing tension and conveying a hand of conciliation, Japan. Nice going! I hope it's worth it. -_-

If they were visiting solely to pay their respects to the dead, I wouldnt have a problem with it but it looks like they're doing this just to piss off Korea and China. These people need to grow up.

"Oh and sorry about WWII. We 'sincerely' apologize!"

If they were visiting solely to pay their respects to the dead, I wouldnt have a problem with it but it looks like they're doing this just to piss off Korea and China. These people need to grow up.

And Korea is not doing the same thing? Honestly, every single one of these politicians are just completely out of whack.

@darknuts: I doubt that.

Yasukuni Shrine is NOT like Arlington Cemetary. It enshrines Class A war criminals and claims that WWII was "inevitable" and Japan was "forced" into war by U.S. "aggressive actions". It also says that Japan is the real victim of the war as the only country in history to suffer atomic bombing.

And Yasukuni Shrine enshrines the Korean and Taiwanese who "fought for the Japanese emperor" despite the wishes of their family who want them removed from the shrine.

@tokio

I agree with that statement.

So do you disrespect the other 2 Million 400 Ninety Nine Thousand 9 Hundered 86 Honorable Solidiers because of the "14" dishonorable ones? Sounds kind of stupid that people get up in arms about visiting a Shrine of that magnitude. It appears they visited purely out of respect for the Honorable Fallen Soldiers....it was an anniversary was it not. Also it was a day of "Surrender" not the day we crushed someone.

There are NO class A criminals at the shrine. Just their names written down someplace. The ashes of the 14 were dumped into Tokyo Bay by the Allies. Second this is a private place not run by the government. In order for you to believe the criminals are there, you have to be Shinto.

They are all acting childish, stubborn and arrogant..

When will they grow up and start acting mature... They are all an embarrassment.

Korean politicians are visiting shrines with Class A war criminals that also glorifies military and colonial aggression.

Get a head check, man.

Perhaps you need to consider what I was trying to say before jumping into conclusions kind sir. I simply meant that Korea was pulling stunts to rile up tensions here, just as this visit to Yasukuni is a stunt to rile them up.

I believe my head is quite in check, thank you very much.

You have yourself a nice day now.

There are NO class A criminals at the shrine. Just their names written down someplace.

Then why don't they remove the name of the war criminals.

Yasukuni also enshrines 1,054 people who were convicted of war crimes by U.S Military courts during the Occupation of Japan..

this visit to Yasukuni is a stunt to rile them up.

You may be willing to reconsider your statement as August 15th is the date of the Emperor's address to the nation announcing the surrender of Japan.

The Japanese politicians have not just decided to visit the shrine. They do it every year on certain days/anniversaries.

＠JaneM - Thanks for the head's up, it had completely slipped my mind. Wading through this much hatred really makes things slip your mind...

"“This is a private visit to this shrine,” he told Japanese reporters, according to Jiji Press."

Yeah, about as 'private' as Lee's visit to Dokdo. If it were truly private, we would never have known about it, instead he spoke of his 'private' plans to the media.

@John Constantine: There have been petitions to move the enshrined (without the war criminals) to another location. This has been rejected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine

And "we"?

The Chinese made this a measuring stick of their influence over Japan when they began objecting to it in the 1980s.

I think the ritual of agonizing whether or whether not to allow cabinet ministers to visit Yasukuni has become like the equivalent to the old style paying of tributes to PRC by Vassal states like Korea and Ryuku had to. The attitude of the PM and cabinet reflects their willingness to kow-tow to the demand by PRC that they not do this.

Looking back, Koizumi showed total defiance against this practice, and PRC shut down ties with Japan in retaliation. Other more careful PMs have seen the day go by with less attention, and relations with PRC seem to generally remain quiet and constructive.

So this year? Well, Noda isn't going, and neither is most of the cabinet. 2 cabinet ministers going in a private capacity frankly I don't think is much of a big deal. It's still clear that the PRC demand that the PM not visit is firmly in place (and Noda is from a military family, remember) so there isn't anything substantive that should impact on relations, although the two who went will be the subject of some noise to help remind Japan to stay in line next year.

I think using a test of forbidding Japanese paying tribute to their millions of war dead ancestors is pretty rough, for all the legitimate angst PRC has about WWII. Koizumi was right in his position on the shrine, and the ability of Japanese leaders to pay respects to war dead is really a test of Japan's own sovereignty, that frankly, I don't think they will ever be able to do as PRC grows in influence.

Politicians are all about power and playing games.... the problem is that it is mainly the average guy that ends up paying the most and all too often with their lives.

Hikozaemon: "I think using a test of forbidding Japanese paying tribute to their millions of war dead ancestors is pretty rough, for all the legitimate angst PRC has about WWII."

I agree in terms of personal visits. All this would end if Japan removed the names of the war criminals, or people who honestly wanted to visit personally did so PERSONALLY (ie. not notifying the media and signing their names down with job title).

Its a concern sometimes, as I noticed more right wing groups outside shopping centers and major train stations promoting the Japan is the best and hate thy neighbour message. I hope these ignorant people don't endanger our lives.

Smith - weeellll, you are getting into some nits about details but I'm pleasantly surprised at your pragmatism on the issue.

The fact that the visits are publicized - I'm not sure if they announce it or the press pulls it out. This is an annual ritual and media from all editorial ends of the spectrum tends to survey and follow cabinet ministers to see what they will do. The two ministers in this case have a long personal history of making visits that they explain they want to continue (not clear if it is to pay respects to specific ancestors or a general desire to go, but fine, it is something they do). I don't think it is possible - at least without lying and hiding from the press, for cabinet members to attend without publicity. Then the details of signing and what the significance of signing the guestbook and giving job is and whatnot - you could say you would fill it out the same way if you are a plumber, doesn't make it a plumbing visit. But fine.

In the end of the day, if you look at this issue in a utilitarian way as it seems we both do, the real test is to see if China has been successful in exerting control over the behaviour of the Japanese cabinet. The answer to that in this case is clearly YES. Everyone stayed home and the two that went, tried to appease criticism by explaining it as being in a personal capacity.

Koizumi was defiant - "everything I do is as PM" (ie - "screw you China"). That was a clear refusal to bow. These guys went, but still bowed, even though many will interpret it as defiance. The fact that these guys have had to publicly deny it is in an official capacity shows even for these two, PRC kind of gets its way.

I don't think that there is anything here that PRC should be dissatisfied about - if anything, it is an affirmation of PRC's influence over the cabinet.

The dead includes Japanese who fought to defend South Korea.

http://japanfocus.org/-Tessa-Morris_Suzuki/3803

Post-War Warriors: Japanese Combatants in the Korean War

.... thousands of Japanese citizens were once again in a war zone, engaged in combat-related tasks in their newly liberated former colony of Korea; and this engagement was initiated and overseen by the United States, the very country which had ensured the inclusion of the peace clause in the Japanese constitution.

Hikozaemon: I always respect people's right to pray for this or that in any religion, or with no religion at all. It's not pragmatic so much as it is common decency.

Koizumi was a good PM (or at least, better than the last six since he was in power), but this was one thing I did not agree with him on. To see him go to the extreme levels he took to shake hands with Kim Jong Il and try to make amends (before he kow-towed to the right wingers and went 180) and then state he would visit the shrine as PM despite pleas from China and South Korea... well, just seemed to feed a little too much to the right-wingers and not quite as much into his own practices.

Agree about the political pressure from China and SK, by the way, and agree that it works, for the most part. It would just be nice to see a snapshot of one of these politicians visiting the shrine in casual garb, and it being reported after the fact instead of being announced before. I have no doubt it's hard for them to slip by the press, especially with these guys going every year, but I do seriously wonder if it was fed to the press or the press gleaned it first.

Then why don't they remove the name of the war criminals.

One of the controversies arises out of the enshrinement of World War II war criminals. In 1959, the "kami" (spirits) of 1,068 Class-B and -C war criminals who had been executed after being sentenced to death by the military tribunals of the Allied Forces were enshrined at Yasukuni. However, according to documents released by the National Diet Library of Japan in 2007, Health and Welfare Ministry officials and Yasukuni representatives officially met to discuss the eligibility of the war criminals more than nine years later, on January 31, 1969. After the meeting, the Shrine and Ministry officials agreed that all "are eligible" for enshrinement according to the extant rules; the officials then decided to withhold information relating to the criminals' enshrinement in order to avoid controversy. In 1978, the kami of 14 persons who had been executed or imprisoned as Class-A war criminals by IMTFE were enshrined at Yasukuni. According to a memorandum released in 2006 by Imperial Household Agency Grand Steward Tomohiko Tomita, the presence of enshrined Class-A war criminals (such as Hideki Tōjō) at Yasukuni was the reason Emperor Hirohito refused to visit the shrine from 1978 until his death in 1989. Since the enshrinements, there have been calls from some groups of people to remove the war criminals from Yasukuni Shrine. Shrine officials have stated that unlike traditional Shinto shrines, all enshrined kami are immediately combined and inseparable, and therefore impossible to "remove". There has been no move to separate the enshrinements.

And then this additional obstacle to regional peace:

Yasukuni Shrine operates a museum of the history of Japan called the Yūshūkan, which honours Japanese war heroes. Although the Yūshūkan displays items relating to earlier military conflicts, such as the Meiji Restoration and the Satsuma Rebellion, the museum focuses primarily on the events surrounding World War II. The museum has been criticized as presenting a revisionist interpretation of World War II. The museum highlights heroic war stories and kamikaze pilots, but does not mention atrocities. The museum depicts Japan as an Asian liberator, provoked into war by European and U.S. officials, who choked the incoming supply of raw materials to the resource-poor nation. Some believe that the museum is unapologetic of Japanese colonialism and nationalism, and is a reminder that Japan has been slow to apologize for wartime atrocities.(wiki)

Visiting Yasukuni is alomost as same as landing in the island from the points that these are kind of icons of conflicts against asian nations.

The prosperity of present-day Japan is thanks to the U.S. not annihilating Japan. That's probably because it didn't want the head ache of possibly China or Russia invading Japan.

Jin Matsubara, who handles the issue of Japanese kidnapped by North Korea

I guess that issue is now considered a non-issue.

If you swim to Dokodo we will walk to Yasukuni, if you walk to Yasukuni we will swim to Dokodo, is there any end to this circle, both countries have the same human beings, old, young, men,women, children and almost the same problems, unemployment, natural disasters, slow economies, declining population and many more.

instead of this ugly bullying of both the countries, the politicians should start a completion to resolve the above problems in their own countries.

billyshears - 'Since the enshrinements, there have been calls from some groups of people to remove the war criminals from Yasukuni Shrine. Shrine officials have stated that unlike traditional Shinto shrines, all enshrined kami are immediately combined and inseparable, and therefore impossible to "remove". '

Interesting comment. I remember a Japanese fella who said he knew of no other culture quite like the Japanese one except for the Catholic Church. And we all know that if that is how it is done that is how it is done. Been that way for a thousand years and will be that way for a thousand more.

Let it be. Shall we scour the history of China? Korea? America? War is hell and Sherman made sure the south knew it. Nice guy. Truman gave an order that still makes me cry. The kids.

Ali: "instead of this ugly bullying of both the countries, the politicians should start a completion to resolve the above problems in their own countries."

That would requite dedication, skill, and honesty. It's far easier to just point the finger at someone else and unite people against an 'enemy' the the political points are down.

These guys are morons, and they also expose the DPJ as being no different from the LDP.

These two right wing scummies claim they are visiting Yasukumi in "their private capacities." This is a standard and dishonest dodge. As politicians they do not have private capacities. Everything they do in public is a political act. Yasukuni itself is more than simply a religious institution. It helps to perpetuate the lies about Japan's supposed good intentions in the war and its supposed victimhood.

Shame on these two whose jobs are supported by our taxes.

Why doesn't the DPJ show that they are different from the LDP? That way the Japanese people can actually choose a party that supposedly agrees with them. A lot of people say the Japanese people think differently from the Japanese government. So let the people choose a party that reflects their true opinion on these kinds of issues.

Distractions abound. Yasukuni shrine visit, arguing with koreans and chinese over territory etc etc.

Makes me wonder what the other hand is doing as all this is going on?

One point, these two have been paying homage to Yasukuni annually before they had become a minister. Comparing this with the SK president is completely off.

So what's wrong in paying respect to their own ancestors and Japanese war dead? If the Chinese and the Koreans are so unhappy about it, why don't you go home?

A country was being conquered so what? It's a war. Accept it and move on!

I'm really tired hearing this endless fights over the years..! This is Japan. Yasukuni is in Japan. And the Japanese have the rights to do what they pleased with it.

It is their religion, people have a lot of nerve to tell them how to practice it.

Thomas, you can worship anything. As long as you do not break the law there is freedom of religion in Japan.

Ah yes, they seem to have a conscience about such things and outlaw it, don't they?

A diversion for the nuke/radiation protest problems in Japan?

Yuri, as usual, you aren't understand the issues here and just defending - which is exactly why other countries are up in arms.

Yasukuni Shrine, has somewhat become a defacto political platform symbolizing the the Japanese attitude towards the WWII & the (potential) revival of militarism in Japan regardless of opinions by some plainly describing it as a religious lieu.

As increasing number of opportunist right-wingers flocked to the Shrine for the sake of political interest, neighboring nations keep monitoring the head-count of J political figures visiting the Shrine.. So notorous that this has become an almost MUST-SEE 'scenic spot' for tourists from China who have grown up with news about the Yasukuni Shrine !

Finally, the two not-so-senior ministers of the current cabinet took the opportunity to capitalize on personal political 'assets' ( the first time though ) with embarassement to be assumed by the PM Noda that implied the loss of control on his own men.. hence the end is drawing near.. very near !

I am Chinese who lives in Japan. Yasukuni Shrine visits have my full support....What is the problem with people going to their religious site and to remember those who have died for their country?? It's like your churchs and mosques...Is this about the "A" class war criminals??? Do anyone here know the fact that the "A" class war criminal Nobusuke Kishi was the Prime Minister. Why those morons from mainland and K-Peninsula never said anything about this before. Why Yasukuni visiting has to be blamed all the time and used for political bullcraps??? Symbol of Militarism revival in Japan?? I WISH THEY DO REVIVE AND RE-ARMED to deal with CHINA'S & KOREA's ARROGANTS AND BULLYINGS