China repeated that they are on a "Peaceful Rise" as a mantra for over a decade.
Today they are openly stepping on the toes of all of their Asian neighbors.
It is natural that movements to incease nationalism in these victim Asian countries
will rise in the face of the overt and aggressive Nationalism being displayed by China.
The odds of Japan ever returtning to a nationlaist militant dictatorship again after 70 years
is close to zero, whereas China is exactly that right now.
China whines about Japan of 70 years ago while doing the same thing today.
I am all for a more right wing influence on the J-govt as it will get them off their seats and
become a more active participasnt in upholding the peace and security of East Asia.
JohhnyGlitterball at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:40AM JST
@Ultra/USA
It was Japan that invaded its neighbours, yawn.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:42AM JST
OssanAmerica
Ossan, ot has always been apparent that you are a nationalist Japanese but this post has just cemented it.
Today they are openly stepping on the toes of all of their Asian neighbors.
So China is the only country with border disputes is the what you are saying? Lets have a look at that shall we, Japan has border disputes with China, Russia, South Korea, Taiwan. The Taiwanese have border disputes with China, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia. The Philippines have border disputes with Vietnam, China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Brunei. THe list goes on and on, you make out again that China is the only country in Asia involved in territorial disputes when the fact is this is not true.
The odds of Japan ever returtning to a nationlaist militant dictatorship again after 70 years is close to zero, whereas China is exactly that right now.
Sorry, am l understanding that you claim China is like Japan of 70 years ago? Who have the Chinese invaded? Have they invaded half of Asia and killed millions?
China whines about Japan of 70 years ago while doing the same thing today.
MMM l havent seen China bomb the US, or Australia, havent seen China invade and occupy Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, New Guinea, Solomons, or any of the countless other island nations. So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually.
I am all for a more right wing influence on the J-govt as it will get them off their seats and become a more active participasnt in upholding the peace and security of East Asia.
What a strange statement considering Japan is where it is today because of its naked aggression and activities in removing that peace and security in East Asia or do you forget that?
AriesKJJ at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:47AM JST
a new party that puts national interests first, bolsters the military and rewrites the pacifist constitution.
That worked out so well before.
YuriOtani at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:52AM JST
Believe that General Tamogami is right as Noda Chan does not have the backbone to stand up to the Chinese. Letting them have these islands will not bring peace but encourage the Red Chinese to take the rest of the prefecture. The people of Okinawa do not want to be part of China. It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:56AM JST
J-govt as it will get them off their seats and become a more active participasnt in upholding the peace and security of East Asia.
There is a difference between upholding the peace and breaking it. The path that these "nationalists" are taking has nothing to do with peace and security.
Japan walked down that road nearly a century ago, and people around the world thought they learned their lesson?
Let's hope history does not repeat itself.
tmarie at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:00AM JST
Well said Cletus.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:01AM JST
Believe that General Tamogami is right as Noda Chan does not have the backbone to stand up to the Chinese. Letting them have these islands will not bring peace but encourage the Red Chinese to take the rest of the prefecture. The people of Okinawa do not want to be part of China. It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter.
While you sit safe and sound in Oklahoma it's us here in Japan now that have to live with the fact that these idiots are doing nothing more than stirring up a pot that leads to nothing but disaster.
China has too many domestic problems going on right now that all it's needs is a foreign diplomacy problem, particularly with Japan, to light the flames of nationalism on it's side and just feed the flames of stupidity.
There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism. Let's hope these idiots stay on the fringe where they belong, and that the Chinese people recognize them for what they are, ignorant fools who never learned from their history.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:05AM JST
YuriOtani
Believe that General Tamogami is right as Noda Chan does not have the backbone to stand up to the Chinese.
Of course you believe he is right, his sentiments are very much in line with your own. He is a nutter, history denying nationalist who denies any wrongdoing on Japans part. This guy perfectly portrays the beliefs of all ultra nationalist nutters. I guess as long as the likes of this guy continue to spread their "version" of history and are voted into power then Japan will never move forward in the eyes of their neighbors.
Letting them have these islands will not bring peace but encourage the Red Chinese to take the rest of the prefecture. The people of Okinawa do not want to be part of China. It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter.
Wow "red Chinese" that is so 50's there Yuri
paulinusa at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:05AM JST
General Tamogami is either delusional, power hungry, or both. It's always the same old formula with ultranationalists. Listen to him and all Japan's problems will disappear.
"...Japan will simply continue to decline,..."
And there's no doubt it will with people like him in power.
tmarie at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:22AM JST
**Believe that General Tamogami is right as Noda Chan does not have the backbone to stand up to the Chinese. **
The only reason you think anyone should stand up to the Chinese is because you thin the US is going to come in and save your butt. YOU cause the problems? YOUR SDF can bail you out. Which is not likely to happen against China.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:28AM JST
havent seen China invade and occupy Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, New Guinea, Solomons, or any of the countless other island nations. So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually.
Ossan read a bit more about Chinese history. Many of the countries you have named here at one time or another fell under the eye of a China with expansionism in mind.
While Japan's is more recent, China has not been perfect either, ever hear of Tibet?
Pukey2 at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:45AM JST
was sacked in 2008 for writing that Japan was ensnared into World War Two by the United States and was not an aggressor in the conflict in Asia.
I stopped reading after I came to that sentence.
fds at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:54AM JST
as for japan invading china 70 years ago, china also tried to invade japan in 1274 and 1281. since they failed does that mean it doesn't count?
but i do think lack of nationalism is a problem. ask most japanese people what they would do if invaded by china and you will pretty much get 2 answers, america will defend us or japanese don't believe in war. very few will say that they would fight for japan. it also shows in national government, teachers refuse to sing the national anthem and most people don't really seem to care about the direction the country is going and ultimately, when the politicians and bureaucrats screw up, nobody gets mad, they just say shoganai.
gaijinfo at Jul. 30, 2012 - 09:04AM JST
puts national interests first, bolsters the military
Memo to the black truck guys:
First, you build up a huge military
THEN your country goes broke.
Not the other way around.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 09:52AM JST
but i do think lack of nationalism is a problem. ask most japanese people what they would do if invaded by china and you will pretty much get 2 answers, america will defend us or japanese don't believe in war.
I would hope you mean patriotism and not nationalism. As I noted earlier there is a fine line between the two, many times confuse the two.
Then again one man's patriot is another man's rebel. Nationalism is not something that anyone wants to see raise it's ugly head here in Japan.
Vesperto at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:37AM JST
located near rich fishing grounds and potential maritime oil and gas reserves.
Ah, so that's why they're bashing their heads over these islands.
the government was considering buying them from their private owners rather than let Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, a harsh critic of China, proceed with a similar purchase plan.
Does it matter as long as it settles the issue?
@Cletus
So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually.
China's not physically invading anyone these days, only the US does that (but they call it liberating - i think they mean their oil prices). China is, however, economically invading the whole world. And the whole world, Japan included, is doing little to stop it, 'cos everybody and their dog is very patriotic, but everyone buys what's cheapest, not what's national - and what's cheapest is made in China. If not Iran in the mid-term, China will eventually start some sort of strong conflict in the long-term.
@Yubaru
There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism.
The problem's that the line is often very blurry. I think/hope what fds meant is that most japanese just don't care about politics. Just like border disputes, that's pretty much a global issue. However, i see nothing wrong - quite the contrary - in not singing the national anthem in class. It's that blurry line again...
smithinjapan at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:43AM JST
YuriOtani: "The people of Okinawa do not want to be part of China. It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter."
And once again the blind hypocrisy. You support Tamogami, who is clearly against China and the US, but whom do you think Japan would rely on in any aggression towards China? -- THE USA!
People like Tamogami seem to forget what happened to Japan at the end of WWII and why they lost. There's a reason Tamogami is a disgrace.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:46AM JST
Vesperto
@Cletus
"So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually."
China's not physically invading anyone these days, only the US does that (but they call it liberating - i think they mean their oil prices).
So we are in agreement then that Ossanamerica's comment that China is the same as Japan of 70 years ago is false then?
China is, however, economically invading the whole world. And the whole world, Japan included, is doing little to stop it, 'cos everybody and their dog is very patriotic, but everyone buys what's cheapest, not what's national - and what's cheapest is made in China. If not Iran in the mid-term, China will eventually start some sort of strong conflict in the long-term.
So China is invading the world through low cost (cheap) products. Well yeah they are and who are the clowns that keep buying this stuff? That would be the majority of us. And to be honest l would rather buy a "cheap" Chinese product than the same item way overpriced purely because it is made in my country. It comes down to economics, why would l buy the same item at massively inflated prices when l can pay much less for the same item from elsewhere?
roughneck at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:48AM JST
A Pro-Japan party will be good! Specially if it can bring more awareness to the Japanese people about being more patriot.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:51AM JST
Yubaru
"havent seen China invade and occupy Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, New Guinea, Solomons, or any of the countless other island nations. So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually."
Ossan read a bit more about Chinese history. Many of the countries you have named here at one time or another fell under the eye of a China with expansionism in mind.
So by "many" you mean a couple (Vietnam, Korea, India, and Burma (in the 1700's). China is really no different to say Japan, Germany, UK, US, or any other powerful nation that has gone through a period of imperialistic expansion. But Ossan's claim that present day China is the same as Japan of 70 years ago just does not have the spine to support it. Present day China is nothing like Japan of 70 years ago. I would say present day Japan still has some shades of Japan 70 years ago albeit without the military to back it up.
While Japan's is more recent, China has not been perfect either, ever hear of Tibet?
Agreed, and l never said China was perfect now did l. And yes l have heard of Tibet.
Vesperto at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:12AM JST
@Cletus
So we are in agreement then that Ossanamerica's comment that China is the same as Japan of 70 years ago is false then?
Seems false indeed.
why would l buy the same item at massively inflated prices when l can pay much less for the same item from elsewhere?
If that's the only factor then you're right, but it's more complicated than that. At least here (Portugal, which had its share of imperialistic tripping and has its modest share of border disputes) people know that whatever's selling in the chinese stores is a cheap, low quality imitation of the originals. And the majority stills buys it, of course. There used to be "one euro stores" run but portuguese, now you have chinese stores everywhere. The chinese are buying chunks of big national companies, the chinese are buying debt... they're invading alright. And people do nothing (except buying their junk of course).
Massively inflated prices, maybe a decade or two ago, now everyone's trying everything just to stay adrift with all the taxes and crisis and the chinese and all. :)
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:18AM JST
So by "many" you mean a couple (Vietnam, Korea, India, and Burma (in the 1700's). China is really no different to say Japan, Germany, UK, US, or any other powerful nation that has gone through a period of imperialistic expansion.
Typically speaking here a couple means 2.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:41AM JST
Yubaru
Typically speaking here a couple means 2.
Really! Well when l (and many others) say a couple we mean 2 or more. Just so we are both on the same page here is a definition of "a couple" for you so you know where l am coming from:
a couple of, more than two, but not many, of; a small number of.
So l understand your confusion over this but using the term a couple is a common english phrase.
NeoJamal at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:07PM JST
Puerility is nothing new to JT, but we can all agree that any attempts for Japan to try and take a serious approach to its own security and defence is nationalism at work right? I mean why arm yourself when some other country can do it for you.
NeoJamal at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:11PM JST
Who does Japan think she is by going against Asia's wishes of a disarmed Japan by growing a brain and realising that they must look to their own defences as a sovereign state.
Feihu at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:22PM JST
A 19th century nationalism seems to be raising its head all over the world. The Japanese political world like all the others is staking its claim. However Japan is less of a threat to China than is the US who has already stated that they will be staking their claim in the Far East. The spirit of "Manifest Destiny" is still alive. One should not forget and learn from history that the US and the European Powers, who all wanted a piece of China, are responsible for turning China into "The Sick Man of Asia". And in doing so the West unwittingly opened the door for Japanese expansion in China and later in the rest of Asia.
Feihu at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:30PM JST
One more thing that history shows us is that in times of crisis people tend to make poor choices. Just look at the lst decade for poor choices.
Triumvere at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:56PM JST
What is with this utter and continuing failure to come to grips with history?
I do not understand the nationalists' need to rewrite the past in order to feel good about their nation. I consider myself a patriot, but I am perfectly willing to acknowledge (and condemn) the abuses of the past. I don't love my country any less for doing so.
Thomas Anderson at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:58PM JST
I wish that these nationalists would just go to war already and kill each other. We are tired of these boneheaded nationalists who are basically crazy as hell.
Vesperto at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:06PM JST
I wish that these nationalists would just go to war already and kill each other
The problem is that they'd claim to be doing that in name of Japan, hence dragging a whole nation along.
Thomas Anderson at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:12PM JST
The problem is that they'd claim to be doing that in name of Japan, hence dragging a whole nation along.
That's why they should all go to the Senkaku islands, and fight to death with the Chinese nationalists. If they wanted the Senkaku islands so badly, then they should be willing to do at least that.
paulinusa at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:29PM JST
"However Japan is less of a threat to China than is the US who has already stated that they will be staking their claim in the Far East."
Yeah, Toshio! Picking a fight with China is a splendid idea.
tomoki at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:04PM JST
Japan is not picking a fight with China. China is by claiming the Senkaku and now, Okinawa, the same way they claim Tibet as their own. Japan must defend them.
Thomas Anderson at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:13PM JST
Japan is not picking a fight with China. China is by claiming the Senkaku and now, Okinawa, the same way they claim Tibet as their own. Japan must defend them.
Correction: nationalists are.
DoLittleBeLate at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:15PM JST
While these warmongers and criminals are denying history, the neighbouring countries are not. They know what Japan did and what it's capable of doing, and so does the whole world. The U.S - Japan security alliance is not there to defend Japan. It is there to defend its neighbours. 70 years is obviously not long enough to weed out the aggressiveness out of Japanese.
HansNFranz at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:36PM JST
Does Japan realize China has nukes, and Japan doesn't? Sometimes I have to doubt they do.
The USA, heck, nobody will help Japan if it acts like a stubborn child provoking a grown-up, self-confident country.
Japan has to grow up.
Feihu at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:37PM JST
****If history is any measure I do not believe that china will strike the first blow or even go to war over this island dispute. The Han Chinese are not an invading people and when they have tried it it has always been a miserable failure. In their 5000 year history actual Chinese invasions of foreign nations have been few. Two attempts in Viet Nam that resulted both in defeat but one was carried out by the Mongol conquerors of Han China. The other was in modern times and that was Tibet however the reasoning here was that the Tibetans DNA is closer to the Han Chinese than any comparisons between any two similar people on the planet.
Korea was a case like the US in Viet Nam. China was invited in by North Korea. The two attempts to invade Japan were also carried out by the Mongols not the Chinese. All of the border wars in classic times with Korea were also not carried out by the Han Chinese but rather by the nomadic tribes in that area know as the Wu Hu or the Five Barbaric tribes. These people were, Manchus, Jurchens etc are much closer to the Turkic people like the Mongols than they are to the Han Chinese.
China's greatest tactic for controlling other nations is through migration. It's easy to see that this tactic is far better than out-right war. The Chinese control the economics of South East Asia by using this tactic. Today the Han Chinese are moving into Russian border provinces because no Russians want to go there and one of these provinces (I forgot the name) now has a larger Han Chinese population than Russian or Central Asian.
There is much truth in the Chinese saying that "No one ever conquers China, China conquers her invaders. Meaning like the Mongols and the Manchus they become more and more like the Han Chinese. Of course there are no guarantees in history but there are tendencies. Today the Chinese are attempting to conquer Spain through migration and they are doing quite well, first taking over small corner candy stores and in the past few years most of the bakeries in the major cities making bread and typical Spanish pastries are Chinese owned.
Rather than look for Chinese soldiers in the street it's probably better to keep an eye on who owns your super-markets.
Ben Jack at Jul. 30, 2012 - 03:55PM JST
Former Japanese general Toshio Tamogami
Gee, anyone curious as to why this winner is a former general and a former chief of staff of Japan's Self Defense Air Force? Why, it is because of his revisionist essay he published in 2008. It is full of the same kind of garbage that revisionists like to write about the Holocaust. He was dismissed from his position because he was such an embasrrassment to his country.
Jimizo at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:00PM JST
@Yuri
I remember reading Tamogami's idiotic, semi-literate rant in 2008. I recommend that you look at it again and decide if this type of thinking, not to far removed from the nutjobs in the black vans, is really the best path for Japan to follow.
ExportExpert at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:00PM JST
Tamogami is a denialist, an out of touch nutter, and a former military person, what else is there to say.
meandmybigmouth at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:10PM JST
Excellent! Where do I sign up?
BurakuminDes at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:41PM JST
It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter.
Have you been reading American textbooks from the 1950s again? Soon you will be talking about building "an iron curtain" and the prospect of a "cold war"...
meandmybigmouth at Jul. 30, 2012 - 05:09PM JST
Hahahaha....it is so fun to see all the foreigners getting scared of a Pro-Japan party....thinking what Japan can do if stand united! Some are even trying to scare saying China Has Nukes...US will not let Japan do this and that...etc etc. Yes, foreigners will always hate the idea of Japan having a patriotic and nationalist party.
BurakuminDes at Jul. 30, 2012 - 05:58PM JST
Hahahaha....it is so fun to see all the foreigners getting scared of a Pro-Japan party....thinking what Japan can do if stand united! Some are even trying to scare saying China Has Nukes...US will not let Japan do this and that...etc etc. Yes, foreigners will always hate the idea of Japan having a patriotic and nationalist party.
Not quite as hilarious though as foreigners here wishing to "sign up" to an exclusionary, revisionist "Pro-Japan" bunch of nationalists! Maybe you can join and be their non-voting, token gaijin member?!
Simon Foston at Jul. 30, 2012 - 06:48PM JST
Yes, foreigners will always hate the idea of Japan having a patriotic and nationalist party.
A bunch of ignorant, deluded loudmouths that no one listens to and is just as ineffectual and useless as every other party? The idea doesn't particularly bother me.
mrmalice at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:38PM JST
umh, same thing everywhere. We don't really have a lot of contact with China overhere, but uncle S dictates a lot of what happens here in europe. I can really understand how about everyone, not just the so-called conservatives are sick of dancing to its tune but to think you can just rip yourself off from the world in this day and do it by yourself thats plain wrong. Better to form new alliances that work. Not based on politics that stiill originate from the time when anyone disagreeing just got shot and forgotten ... the happy sixties. We got some loudmouths here as well, thinking we can just do it with our five million worldstrange hobbits. Thinking the language that's spoken by about 20-30 million people in the world is the most important thing to preserve and so on, same thing all over the place
Ben Jack at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:40PM JST
getting scared of a Pro-Japan party
It is only natural for Japanese people to love and be proud of the country of their birth. That has nothing to do with what this reality denier Tamogami is peddling. You can be proud of and love your own country and still be in the world of reality. I think I am proof of this.
akumakoe at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:30PM JST
Because all of Japan's problems must be China and/or America's fault. I guess becoming isolationist again would solve everything? Haha, no, but good luck with that party, guys.
ubikwit at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:40PM JST
It certainly would seem that the sooner this issue can be at least partially resolved, the better.
One would think that there should be avenues open for facilitating some sort of collaborative development of the resources and sharing of the fishing grounds.
The other aspects of the economic relations between China and Japan simply dwarf the issue of these rocks and their associated rights, which are nonetheless important.
ubikwit at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:44PM JST
Let me put that in context, as the article is about nationalists and politics.
It certainly would seem that the sooner this issue can be at least partially resolved, the better.
Extremists on both sides (plus Taiwan) are not interested in being diplomatic or showing any type of flexibility. And allowing this issue to fan the flames of nationalism and give rise to extremist political parties is simply irresponsible.
One would think that there should be avenues open for facilitating some sort of collaborative development of the resources and sharing of the fishing grounds.
The other aspects of the economic relations between China and Japan simply dwarf the issue of these rocks and their associated rights, which are nonetheless important.
CrazyJoe at Jul. 30, 2012 - 09:43PM JST
His mental balance sheet needs an overhaul.
NeoJamal at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:49PM JST
It's possible to be a Japanese nationalist and say sorry for committing war crimes. I never understood why these two actions are mutually exclusive and it's unlikely that I never will.
Serrano at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:05PM JST
"Let's do what America tells us to do"
Did America tell you to ban U.S. rice and beef?
kazetsukai at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:20PM JST
It is a known historical fact among the military personnel around the world that a "united" Japanese people is a powerful force to contend with. So far all nations including the US have kept and is continuing to keep the Japanese people "divided". What was truly "feared" was the growth of "nationalism" to become "imperialism" with "colonization" as an objective. When you couple a strong "military" to such unified population it can and did get out of hand.
It happened to the US , but commercially and economically under the "cover" of a strong military after WWII. The US did not physically take over "colonies", they made other nations their economic colonies through private businesses.
For Japan today, other than may be during Olympics, it is difficult to see an aspect of the manifestation of "nationalism" . From all that the media and the international corporations in Japan has shown, there is very little or at least a very low level of "love of country". They have love of "luxury" and "carefree freedom" by amassing fortune, but not necessarily "love of country". They may have some love of "history and tradition" but not "love of country". And you need that be before "nationalism". It is a long way from it.
This new party if successful would probably be of benefit to Japan and the rest of the world. You need a "united" Japan to have its economy and government to become strong. The world need a strong Japan and US, economically and politically.
WWII was only 70 years ago and there is NO indication that China and Russia has abandoned their quest for world domination. The troubles in the Middle East and the world economic crisis have given both an opportunity to take advantage and not only "test" the waters but to boldly and outright be aggressive militarily. The powers in both nations have to defend their status as successful communist nations even if the general population may disagree. The common people have no say... they can only express their opinions.
China now has economic and military advantage and Russia always had the military advantage. The only other nation that had such advantage was the US. Now that US has shown some weakness, Japan has to decide on "how" to "survive". In that sense, not so much as "nationalism" but "love of country" may be the much needed ingredient.
To put that into todays political arena in Japan.... it does appear a new political party may be the answer, regardless of world opinion.
Personally, I would imagine all the smaller nations of the world, even those that were occupied by Japan during WWII would actually welcome a more "prominent" Japan.
Simon Foston at Jul. 31, 2012 - 12:44AM JST
Now that US has shown some weakness, Japan has to decide on "how" to "survive". In that sense, not so much as "nationalism" but "love of country" may be the much needed ingredient.
To put that into todays political arena in Japan.... it does appear a new political party may be the answer, regardless of world opinion.
Another one? There are too many parties as it is, none of them achieving anything.
Feihu at Jul. 31, 2012 - 01:08AM JST
The greater fear is that of the US and the EU that this attempt at economic unity by Asia's "Big Three (China, Japan and Korea) will herald a successful version of the pre-war concept of what was termed "The The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (大東亜共栄圏)." This time around however it is doubtful that the same mistakes by any Asian members will not be repeated. All of East Asia is aware that military interventions would work against the accomplishment of the idea which is what happened in the 20th century. There will definitely be enormous efforts of co-operation between the Asian nations.
Any attempt by the West to derail this would first come from the most concerned parties which would be The US, Australia and New Zealand, later on Russia and the EU would enter the picture. But with three economic power-houses like China, Japan and Korea and considering the work ethic of Asia in general a derailment of the plan seems very unlikely.
What is happening in effect is the beginning of the creation of an Asian "common Market" and an Asian version of the Monroe Doctrine. All of this presents a problem for what has been the West's domination of Asian and world markets for the past 150 years. It is more likely that the West will use military intervention to protect is waining power than the East's attempt to assert their claims on world power. The only people who can derail the process would be the Asians themselves and that is very unlikely to happen. All in all it is beginning to look like Spengler was right. In any event it appears that the playing field is being leveled as never before in history and at a rate that is super-sonic.
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:10AM JST
JohhnyGlitterballsJul. 30, 2012 - 07:40AM JST
@Ultra/USA
It was Japan that invaded its neighbours, yawn.
Yawn...that was 70 years ago. And they have a constitutional ban on starting wars.
China certaibly can't say the same and using 70 year old history as an excuse to justify acting the same
way is sheer nonsense.
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:25AM JST
CletusJul. 30, 2012 - 07:42AM JST
OssanAmerica
Ossan, ot has always been apparent that you are a nationalist Japanese but this post has just cemented it.
Not at all cletus. I support American interests and if the Japanese nationlism helps the US agenda then I suppport it.
Of course you being an Chinese nationalist and a supporter of the PRC dictatorship and only hang around thios site to post anti-Japan and anti-US posts, of course you would see it that way.
"Today they are openly stepping on the toes of all of their Asian neighbors."
So China is the only country with border disputes is the what you are saying? Lets have a look at that shall we, Japan >has border disputes with China, Russia, South Korea, Taiwan. The Taiwanese have border disputes with China, >Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia. The Philippines have border disputes with Vietnam, China, Malaysia, Taiwan, >Brunei. THe list goes on and on, you make out again that China is the only country in Asia involved in territorial >disputes when the fact is this is not true.
No cletus, read the article and read all the articles about China's disputes. China is not the only country with disputes,
it is the only country that is taking a belligerent attitude about it and theatening it's neighbors with force to get their way.
Why do you think all of ASEAN has tyurned to the U.S. for support against China?
The odds of Japan ever returtning to a nationlaist militant dictatorship again after 70 years is close to zero, whereas China is exactly that right now.
Sorry, am l understanding that you claim China is like Japan of 70 years ago? Who have the Chinese invaded? Have >they invaded half of Asia and killed millions?
Yes China is headed in that dfirection. They have started wars with the UN on the Korean Penninsula, with India and Vietnam, and is using force to bully their neighbors. They have a massve need for natural resources that can only be met with a military and territorial expansion agenda. Sound familar???
"China whines about Japan of 70 years ago while doing the same thing today."
MMM l havent seen China bomb the US, or Australia, havent seen China invade and occupy Korea, Vietnam, Burma, >Thailand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, New Guinea, Solomons, or any of the countless other island nations. >So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually.
No cletus, China is headed in that direction and trhey are considered a threeat by all of Asia today.
A one party dictatorship with authoritaruian rule and state control that uses nationalism to control it's masses
and military force and theat to get it's ways diplomatically....sorry cletus, but China is EXACTL:Y like Japan
70 years ago.
"I am all for a more right wing influence on the J-govt as it will get them off their seats and become a more active participasnt in upholding the peace and security of East Asia."
What a strange statement considering Japan is where it is today because of its naked aggression and activities in >removing that peace and security in East Asia or do you forget that?
It's ony strange to you because you are in deliberate denial of the threat that China is posing to all of Asia, and you
are unaware that the US has had a policy of rebuiilding Japan's military since the Korean War.
Today the peace and security of East Asia depends on containing CHINA and all of Asia agrees.,
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:32AM JST
DoLittleBeLateJul. 30, 2012 - 02:15PM JST
While these warmongers and criminals are denying history, the neighbouring countries are not. They know what >Japan did and what it's capable of doing, and so does the whole world. The U.S - Japan security alliance is not there
to defend Japan. It is there to defend its neighbours. 70 years is obviously not long enough to weed out the >aggressiveness out of Japanese.
Yea sure. That's why thge US and Japan share military intelligence on China and North Korea.
Keep dreaming.
Feihu at Jul. 31, 2012 - 05:58AM JST
The wording by one poster that the Chinese INVADED the Korean Peninsula and attacked the UN is wilfully misleading and a clever attempt at promoting American revisionist history. The Korean conflict began June 25, 1950 with the invasion of the ROK by North Korean forces. On June 27 President Truman order US troops to support the ROK military. In July 1950 the UN forces entered the war. Still no sign of China. But on October 15 at the behest of the North Korean government Chinese forces crossed the Yalu and on the 25 of October Chinese forces engaged UN forces for the very first time. That was more than 4 months after the start of hostilities on the Korean peninsula. To paint China as the aggressor in the Korean conflict is as wrong as calling the UN forces aggressors. Both forces were called in by the North and South Korean Governments. The attempt to paint another picture than that is simply a gross untruth.
Also to say that China invaded India and Viet Nam in modern times is also misinformation. Those were border skirmishes quite different from something like Iraq where aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation thousands of miles from the aggressor's national territory is clearly evident. Viet Nam was similar. The Chinese military knew that such an invasion would slow down progress. These border skirmishes were simply posturing by both sides. Wrong, perhaps but nothing like a prolonged conflict. China will do the same with the Senkaku Islands but they will not attack and invade those islands because it would simply slow down progress in China.
Would China like to hold an international position of control? Of course so would the US like to regain the influence and power they have lost over the past three decades and the UK would like to be in the same position. Even Andorra would like to control the world. All governments lust after power both domestic and international. I think the Chinese government is well aware of the fact that that power cannot be obtained by beating someone over the head. I am not too sure that the American and Russian governments understand that. Both are by nature far more bellicose nations than China but China with the size of its military can afford to posture more in the region.
ka_chan at Jul. 31, 2012 - 06:26AM JST
Those who believe that Japan will not repeat the mistake of going ultra-right need to look at history. During Taisho, the struggle with the ultra-right began and basically ended with ketsumeidan jiken and the ni-niroku jiken where liberal politicians and businessmen were targeted for as assassination. There coups d'état attempts by the members of the military. Although most of these failed, it did push Japan more and more to the right until it became a fascist state.
This era is very similar to the era before WWII. Most countries are being forced to the right whether it is by the conservative religious groups or just general conservative groups. Only time will tell which countries will go all the way to fascism.
As for China, she did subjugate Napal.
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 06:53AM JST
ka_chanJul. 31, 2012 - 06:26AM JST
Those who believe that Japan will not repeat the mistake of going ultra-right need to look at history.
Yes, Japan started going ultra-right after 1922. Japan was an Allied Nation in the Boxer Rebellion,
supported by the United States and Britain in the Russo-Japanese War and again an allied nation
in WWI 1915-1917. Since 1945 Japan has had a constututional limit on starting a war.
This era is nothing like the era leading up the WWII period because the populace has enjoyed democracy
for 70 years, something that pre-1920s Japan never was. With the constitutional change of their Emperor from
the State itself to a symbol of the state, the authority to control the country can not be taken by the milirary as it
was in the past. Furthermlore todays economic, political and stragetic relatiomnaships with not just the US but
other democratic nations is such that a repeat of pre-WWII is literally impossible.
Simon Foston at Jul. 31, 2012 - 09:59AM JST
This era is nothing like the era leading up the WWII period because the populace has enjoyed democracy for 70 years, something that pre-1920s Japan never was.
Some people have enjoyed a bit more democracy than others due to the disparity in the value of rural and urban votes. Furthermore some people who don't see anything wrong with pre-WWII Japan seem to have a disproportionate amount of power and influence, e.g. Shinzo Abe who was luckily a useless silver spoon-fed moron.
HansNFranz at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:43PM JST
@kazetsukai Japan was feared for its psychotic take on wars - you can't know what a crazy person is up to, that's what makes them dangerous. But the situation has changed with the introduction of nuclear weapons. If Japan ever decides to "stand united" again and invade any neighbor, it will be erased in less than 2 hours, with zero lives lost on the opposing side.
And if Japan decides it wants to go back to dark, nationalist times, because it is too envious on Korea and China competing in the modern world, something that Japan still seems not be able to, then the world wouldn't care much about it. Maybe it would wish Japan good luck and wait until it has destroyed itself.
Both scenarios are unlikely and hard to imagine, but they are the only two options the "visions" of the Japanese right-wingers will lead Japan into. It is amusing to see if Japan will give these crazies the attention they crave.
Darren Brannan at Jul. 31, 2012 - 06:40PM JST
Tamogami did this because every idiotic thing that has come from his mouth has been censured by the Japanese Government.Unfortunately the growing popularity of Fashimoto and Ishihara will give credibility to his ilk.
just-a-bigguy at Jul. 31, 2012 - 08:13PM JST
Mr Tamogami's party just making Japan worse and the people of Japan understood this! He cant lead the country he has no idea how to lead a nation, he is just fooling himself and others! Mayb he knows how to fly a F15 but certainly not politics, he just screwing the state! Japan has too many parties and his party just spreading more chaos in the parliament!
just-a-bigguy at Jul. 31, 2012 - 08:19PM JST
In Japan, there are pro-China politicians and there are ‘conservatives,’ but almost all of those are pro-American and say ‘let’s do what America tells us to do,’” said Tamogami
Japan leaned on other countries, from the British empire during Meiji to Nazi Germany in WW2 and then the United states in post war years, so is Mr Tamogami suggesting Japan to 'lean-on herself'?? Interesting!!
YuriOtani at Jul. 31, 2012 - 09:16PM JST
Appeasement never works, first it is these islands, then the southern Okinawa islands and then the main island. Not sure about the rest of his platform but am sure he is right about the Chinese.
Eduardo Gonzalez at Aug. 01, 2012 - 10:42AM JST
I agree. Make a switch to Federative government just like USA, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Australia, India, etc.
Because as this country is divided in prefectures, a nationalist party fits in better
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OssanAmerica at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:23AM JST
China repeated that they are on a "Peaceful Rise" as a mantra for over a decade. Today they are openly stepping on the toes of all of their Asian neighbors. It is natural that movements to incease nationalism in these victim Asian countries will rise in the face of the overt and aggressive Nationalism being displayed by China. The odds of Japan ever returtning to a nationlaist militant dictatorship again after 70 years is close to zero, whereas China is exactly that right now. China whines about Japan of 70 years ago while doing the same thing today. I am all for a more right wing influence on the J-govt as it will get them off their seats and become a more active participasnt in upholding the peace and security of East Asia.
JohhnyGlitterball at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:40AM JST
@Ultra/USA
It was Japan that invaded its neighbours, yawn.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:42AM JST
OssanAmerica
Ossan, ot has always been apparent that you are a nationalist Japanese but this post has just cemented it.
So China is the only country with border disputes is the what you are saying? Lets have a look at that shall we, Japan has border disputes with China, Russia, South Korea, Taiwan. The Taiwanese have border disputes with China, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia. The Philippines have border disputes with Vietnam, China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Brunei. THe list goes on and on, you make out again that China is the only country in Asia involved in territorial disputes when the fact is this is not true.
Sorry, am l understanding that you claim China is like Japan of 70 years ago? Who have the Chinese invaded? Have they invaded half of Asia and killed millions?
MMM l havent seen China bomb the US, or Australia, havent seen China invade and occupy Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, New Guinea, Solomons, or any of the countless other island nations. So no China is NOTHING like Japan of 70 years ago. Not a thing like them actually.
What a strange statement considering Japan is where it is today because of its naked aggression and activities in removing that peace and security in East Asia or do you forget that?
AriesKJJ at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:47AM JST
That worked out so well before.
YuriOtani at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:52AM JST
Believe that General Tamogami is right as Noda Chan does not have the backbone to stand up to the Chinese. Letting them have these islands will not bring peace but encourage the Red Chinese to take the rest of the prefecture. The people of Okinawa do not want to be part of China. It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:56AM JST
There is a difference between upholding the peace and breaking it. The path that these "nationalists" are taking has nothing to do with peace and security.
Japan walked down that road nearly a century ago, and people around the world thought they learned their lesson?
Let's hope history does not repeat itself.
tmarie at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:00AM JST
Well said Cletus.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:01AM JST
While you sit safe and sound in Oklahoma it's us here in Japan now that have to live with the fact that these idiots are doing nothing more than stirring up a pot that leads to nothing but disaster.
China has too many domestic problems going on right now that all it's needs is a foreign diplomacy problem, particularly with Japan, to light the flames of nationalism on it's side and just feed the flames of stupidity.
There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism. Let's hope these idiots stay on the fringe where they belong, and that the Chinese people recognize them for what they are, ignorant fools who never learned from their history.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:05AM JST
YuriOtani
Of course you believe he is right, his sentiments are very much in line with your own. He is a nutter, history denying nationalist who denies any wrongdoing on Japans part. This guy perfectly portrays the beliefs of all ultra nationalist nutters. I guess as long as the likes of this guy continue to spread their "version" of history and are voted into power then Japan will never move forward in the eyes of their neighbors.
Wow "red Chinese" that is so 50's there Yuri
paulinusa at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:05AM JST
General Tamogami is either delusional, power hungry, or both. It's always the same old formula with ultranationalists. Listen to him and all Japan's problems will disappear.
"...Japan will simply continue to decline,..."
And there's no doubt it will with people like him in power.
tmarie at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:22AM JST
**Believe that General Tamogami is right as Noda Chan does not have the backbone to stand up to the Chinese. **
The only reason you think anyone should stand up to the Chinese is because you thin the US is going to come in and save your butt. YOU cause the problems? YOUR SDF can bail you out. Which is not likely to happen against China.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:28AM JST
Ossan read a bit more about Chinese history. Many of the countries you have named here at one time or another fell under the eye of a China with expansionism in mind.
While Japan's is more recent, China has not been perfect either, ever hear of Tibet?
Pukey2 at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:45AM JST
I stopped reading after I came to that sentence.
fds at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:54AM JST
as for japan invading china 70 years ago, china also tried to invade japan in 1274 and 1281. since they failed does that mean it doesn't count?
but i do think lack of nationalism is a problem. ask most japanese people what they would do if invaded by china and you will pretty much get 2 answers, america will defend us or japanese don't believe in war. very few will say that they would fight for japan. it also shows in national government, teachers refuse to sing the national anthem and most people don't really seem to care about the direction the country is going and ultimately, when the politicians and bureaucrats screw up, nobody gets mad, they just say shoganai.
gaijinfo at Jul. 30, 2012 - 09:04AM JST
Memo to the black truck guys:
First, you build up a huge military
THEN your country goes broke.
Not the other way around.
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 09:52AM JST
I would hope you mean patriotism and not nationalism. As I noted earlier there is a fine line between the two, many times confuse the two.
Then again one man's patriot is another man's rebel. Nationalism is not something that anyone wants to see raise it's ugly head here in Japan.
Vesperto at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:37AM JST
Ah, so that's why they're bashing their heads over these islands.
Does it matter as long as it settles the issue?
@Cletus
China's not physically invading anyone these days, only the US does that (but they call it liberating - i think they mean their oil prices). China is, however, economically invading the whole world. And the whole world, Japan included, is doing little to stop it, 'cos everybody and their dog is very patriotic, but everyone buys what's cheapest, not what's national - and what's cheapest is made in China. If not Iran in the mid-term, China will eventually start some sort of strong conflict in the long-term.
@Yubaru
The problem's that the line is often very blurry. I think/hope what fds meant is that most japanese just don't care about politics. Just like border disputes, that's pretty much a global issue. However, i see nothing wrong - quite the contrary - in not singing the national anthem in class. It's that blurry line again...
smithinjapan at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:43AM JST
YuriOtani: "The people of Okinawa do not want to be part of China. It is stand up to the Red menace now or latter."
And once again the blind hypocrisy. You support Tamogami, who is clearly against China and the US, but whom do you think Japan would rely on in any aggression towards China? -- THE USA!
People like Tamogami seem to forget what happened to Japan at the end of WWII and why they lost. There's a reason Tamogami is a disgrace.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:46AM JST
Vesperto
So we are in agreement then that Ossanamerica's comment that China is the same as Japan of 70 years ago is false then?
So China is invading the world through low cost (cheap) products. Well yeah they are and who are the clowns that keep buying this stuff? That would be the majority of us. And to be honest l would rather buy a "cheap" Chinese product than the same item way overpriced purely because it is made in my country. It comes down to economics, why would l buy the same item at massively inflated prices when l can pay much less for the same item from elsewhere?
roughneck at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:48AM JST
A Pro-Japan party will be good! Specially if it can bring more awareness to the Japanese people about being more patriot.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:51AM JST
Yubaru
So by "many" you mean a couple (Vietnam, Korea, India, and Burma (in the 1700's). China is really no different to say Japan, Germany, UK, US, or any other powerful nation that has gone through a period of imperialistic expansion. But Ossan's claim that present day China is the same as Japan of 70 years ago just does not have the spine to support it. Present day China is nothing like Japan of 70 years ago. I would say present day Japan still has some shades of Japan 70 years ago albeit without the military to back it up.
Agreed, and l never said China was perfect now did l. And yes l have heard of Tibet.
Vesperto at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:12AM JST
@Cletus
Seems false indeed.
If that's the only factor then you're right, but it's more complicated than that. At least here (Portugal, which had its share of imperialistic tripping and has its modest share of border disputes) people know that whatever's selling in the chinese stores is a cheap, low quality imitation of the originals. And the majority stills buys it, of course. There used to be "one euro stores" run but portuguese, now you have chinese stores everywhere. The chinese are buying chunks of big national companies, the chinese are buying debt... they're invading alright. And people do nothing (except buying their junk of course).
Massively inflated prices, maybe a decade or two ago, now everyone's trying everything just to stay adrift with all the taxes and crisis and the chinese and all. :)
Yubaru at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:18AM JST
Typically speaking here a couple means 2.
Cletus at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:41AM JST
Yubaru
Really! Well when l (and many others) say a couple we mean 2 or more. Just so we are both on the same page here is a definition of "a couple" for you so you know where l am coming from:
So l understand your confusion over this but using the term a couple is a common english phrase.
NeoJamal at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:07PM JST
Puerility is nothing new to JT, but we can all agree that any attempts for Japan to try and take a serious approach to its own security and defence is nationalism at work right? I mean why arm yourself when some other country can do it for you.
NeoJamal at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:11PM JST
Who does Japan think she is by going against Asia's wishes of a disarmed Japan by growing a brain and realising that they must look to their own defences as a sovereign state.
Feihu at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:22PM JST
A 19th century nationalism seems to be raising its head all over the world. The Japanese political world like all the others is staking its claim. However Japan is less of a threat to China than is the US who has already stated that they will be staking their claim in the Far East. The spirit of "Manifest Destiny" is still alive. One should not forget and learn from history that the US and the European Powers, who all wanted a piece of China, are responsible for turning China into "The Sick Man of Asia". And in doing so the West unwittingly opened the door for Japanese expansion in China and later in the rest of Asia.
Feihu at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:30PM JST
One more thing that history shows us is that in times of crisis people tend to make poor choices. Just look at the lst decade for poor choices.
Triumvere at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:56PM JST
What is with this utter and continuing failure to come to grips with history?
I do not understand the nationalists' need to rewrite the past in order to feel good about their nation. I consider myself a patriot, but I am perfectly willing to acknowledge (and condemn) the abuses of the past. I don't love my country any less for doing so.
Thomas Anderson at Jul. 30, 2012 - 12:58PM JST
I wish that these nationalists would just go to war already and kill each other. We are tired of these boneheaded nationalists who are basically crazy as hell.
Vesperto at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:06PM JST
The problem is that they'd claim to be doing that in name of Japan, hence dragging a whole nation along.
Thomas Anderson at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:12PM JST
That's why they should all go to the Senkaku islands, and fight to death with the Chinese nationalists. If they wanted the Senkaku islands so badly, then they should be willing to do at least that.
paulinusa at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:29PM JST
"However Japan is less of a threat to China than is the US who has already stated that they will be staking their claim in the Far East."
We've already staked our claim in China: McDonalds, Coca Cola, KFC,...
telecasterplayer at Jul. 30, 2012 - 01:48PM JST
Hey Toshio, China has 2.85 Million troops in the active military, 800,000 reservists and another 300 Million or so who can called up in an emergency.
You've got a nation of "grass eating men" (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2009/06/the_herbivores_dilemma.html), who are busy doing their hair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ig3i5IPsI), losing interest in girls (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/14/japanese-government-young-men-losing-interest-sex/).
Yeah, Toshio! Picking a fight with China is a splendid idea.
tomoki at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:04PM JST
Japan is not picking a fight with China. China is by claiming the Senkaku and now, Okinawa, the same way they claim Tibet as their own. Japan must defend them.
Thomas Anderson at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:13PM JST
Correction: nationalists are.
DoLittleBeLate at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:15PM JST
While these warmongers and criminals are denying history, the neighbouring countries are not. They know what Japan did and what it's capable of doing, and so does the whole world. The U.S - Japan security alliance is not there to defend Japan. It is there to defend its neighbours. 70 years is obviously not long enough to weed out the aggressiveness out of Japanese.
HansNFranz at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:36PM JST
Does Japan realize China has nukes, and Japan doesn't? Sometimes I have to doubt they do. The USA, heck, nobody will help Japan if it acts like a stubborn child provoking a grown-up, self-confident country. Japan has to grow up.
Feihu at Jul. 30, 2012 - 02:37PM JST
****If history is any measure I do not believe that china will strike the first blow or even go to war over this island dispute. The Han Chinese are not an invading people and when they have tried it it has always been a miserable failure. In their 5000 year history actual Chinese invasions of foreign nations have been few. Two attempts in Viet Nam that resulted both in defeat but one was carried out by the Mongol conquerors of Han China. The other was in modern times and that was Tibet however the reasoning here was that the Tibetans DNA is closer to the Han Chinese than any comparisons between any two similar people on the planet.
Korea was a case like the US in Viet Nam. China was invited in by North Korea. The two attempts to invade Japan were also carried out by the Mongols not the Chinese. All of the border wars in classic times with Korea were also not carried out by the Han Chinese but rather by the nomadic tribes in that area know as the Wu Hu or the Five Barbaric tribes. These people were, Manchus, Jurchens etc are much closer to the Turkic people like the Mongols than they are to the Han Chinese.
China's greatest tactic for controlling other nations is through migration. It's easy to see that this tactic is far better than out-right war. The Chinese control the economics of South East Asia by using this tactic. Today the Han Chinese are moving into Russian border provinces because no Russians want to go there and one of these provinces (I forgot the name) now has a larger Han Chinese population than Russian or Central Asian.
There is much truth in the Chinese saying that "No one ever conquers China, China conquers her invaders. Meaning like the Mongols and the Manchus they become more and more like the Han Chinese. Of course there are no guarantees in history but there are tendencies. Today the Chinese are attempting to conquer Spain through migration and they are doing quite well, first taking over small corner candy stores and in the past few years most of the bakeries in the major cities making bread and typical Spanish pastries are Chinese owned.
Rather than look for Chinese soldiers in the street it's probably better to keep an eye on who owns your super-markets.
Ben Jack at Jul. 30, 2012 - 03:55PM JST
Gee, anyone curious as to why this winner is a former general and a former chief of staff of Japan's Self Defense Air Force? Why, it is because of his revisionist essay he published in 2008. It is full of the same kind of garbage that revisionists like to write about the Holocaust. He was dismissed from his position because he was such an embasrrassment to his country.
Jimizo at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:00PM JST
@Yuri I remember reading Tamogami's idiotic, semi-literate rant in 2008. I recommend that you look at it again and decide if this type of thinking, not to far removed from the nutjobs in the black vans, is really the best path for Japan to follow.
ExportExpert at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:00PM JST
Tamogami is a denialist, an out of touch nutter, and a former military person, what else is there to say.
meandmybigmouth at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:10PM JST
Excellent! Where do I sign up?
BurakuminDes at Jul. 30, 2012 - 04:41PM JST
Have you been reading American textbooks from the 1950s again? Soon you will be talking about building "an iron curtain" and the prospect of a "cold war"...
meandmybigmouth at Jul. 30, 2012 - 05:09PM JST
Hahahaha....it is so fun to see all the foreigners getting scared of a Pro-Japan party....thinking what Japan can do if stand united! Some are even trying to scare saying China Has Nukes...US will not let Japan do this and that...etc etc. Yes, foreigners will always hate the idea of Japan having a patriotic and nationalist party.
BurakuminDes at Jul. 30, 2012 - 05:58PM JST
Not quite as hilarious though as foreigners here wishing to "sign up" to an exclusionary, revisionist "Pro-Japan" bunch of nationalists! Maybe you can join and be their non-voting, token gaijin member?!
Simon Foston at Jul. 30, 2012 - 06:48PM JST
A bunch of ignorant, deluded loudmouths that no one listens to and is just as ineffectual and useless as every other party? The idea doesn't particularly bother me.
mrmalice at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:38PM JST
umh, same thing everywhere. We don't really have a lot of contact with China overhere, but uncle S dictates a lot of what happens here in europe. I can really understand how about everyone, not just the so-called conservatives are sick of dancing to its tune but to think you can just rip yourself off from the world in this day and do it by yourself thats plain wrong. Better to form new alliances that work. Not based on politics that stiill originate from the time when anyone disagreeing just got shot and forgotten ... the happy sixties. We got some loudmouths here as well, thinking we can just do it with our five million worldstrange hobbits. Thinking the language that's spoken by about 20-30 million people in the world is the most important thing to preserve and so on, same thing all over the place
Ben Jack at Jul. 30, 2012 - 07:40PM JST
It is only natural for Japanese people to love and be proud of the country of their birth. That has nothing to do with what this reality denier Tamogami is peddling. You can be proud of and love your own country and still be in the world of reality. I think I am proof of this.
akumakoe at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:30PM JST
Because all of Japan's problems must be China and/or America's fault. I guess becoming isolationist again would solve everything? Haha, no, but good luck with that party, guys.
ubikwit at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:40PM JST
It certainly would seem that the sooner this issue can be at least partially resolved, the better.
One would think that there should be avenues open for facilitating some sort of collaborative development of the resources and sharing of the fishing grounds.
The other aspects of the economic relations between China and Japan simply dwarf the issue of these rocks and their associated rights, which are nonetheless important.
ubikwit at Jul. 30, 2012 - 08:44PM JST
Let me put that in context, as the article is about nationalists and politics.
It certainly would seem that the sooner this issue can be at least partially resolved, the better.
Extremists on both sides (plus Taiwan) are not interested in being diplomatic or showing any type of flexibility. And allowing this issue to fan the flames of nationalism and give rise to extremist political parties is simply irresponsible.
One would think that there should be avenues open for facilitating some sort of collaborative development of the resources and sharing of the fishing grounds.
The other aspects of the economic relations between China and Japan simply dwarf the issue of these rocks and their associated rights, which are nonetheless important.
CrazyJoe at Jul. 30, 2012 - 09:43PM JST
His mental balance sheet needs an overhaul.
NeoJamal at Jul. 30, 2012 - 10:49PM JST
It's possible to be a Japanese nationalist and say sorry for committing war crimes. I never understood why these two actions are mutually exclusive and it's unlikely that I never will.
Serrano at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:05PM JST
"Let's do what America tells us to do"
Did America tell you to ban U.S. rice and beef?
kazetsukai at Jul. 30, 2012 - 11:20PM JST
It is a known historical fact among the military personnel around the world that a "united" Japanese people is a powerful force to contend with. So far all nations including the US have kept and is continuing to keep the Japanese people "divided". What was truly "feared" was the growth of "nationalism" to become "imperialism" with "colonization" as an objective. When you couple a strong "military" to such unified population it can and did get out of hand.
It happened to the US , but commercially and economically under the "cover" of a strong military after WWII. The US did not physically take over "colonies", they made other nations their economic colonies through private businesses.
For Japan today, other than may be during Olympics, it is difficult to see an aspect of the manifestation of "nationalism" . From all that the media and the international corporations in Japan has shown, there is very little or at least a very low level of "love of country". They have love of "luxury" and "carefree freedom" by amassing fortune, but not necessarily "love of country". They may have some love of "history and tradition" but not "love of country". And you need that be before "nationalism". It is a long way from it.
This new party if successful would probably be of benefit to Japan and the rest of the world. You need a "united" Japan to have its economy and government to become strong. The world need a strong Japan and US, economically and politically.
WWII was only 70 years ago and there is NO indication that China and Russia has abandoned their quest for world domination. The troubles in the Middle East and the world economic crisis have given both an opportunity to take advantage and not only "test" the waters but to boldly and outright be aggressive militarily. The powers in both nations have to defend their status as successful communist nations even if the general population may disagree. The common people have no say... they can only express their opinions.
China now has economic and military advantage and Russia always had the military advantage. The only other nation that had such advantage was the US. Now that US has shown some weakness, Japan has to decide on "how" to "survive". In that sense, not so much as "nationalism" but "love of country" may be the much needed ingredient.
To put that into todays political arena in Japan.... it does appear a new political party may be the answer, regardless of world opinion.
Personally, I would imagine all the smaller nations of the world, even those that were occupied by Japan during WWII would actually welcome a more "prominent" Japan.
Simon Foston at Jul. 31, 2012 - 12:44AM JST
Another one? There are too many parties as it is, none of them achieving anything.
Feihu at Jul. 31, 2012 - 01:08AM JST
The greater fear is that of the US and the EU that this attempt at economic unity by Asia's "Big Three (China, Japan and Korea) will herald a successful version of the pre-war concept of what was termed "The The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (大東亜共栄圏)." This time around however it is doubtful that the same mistakes by any Asian members will not be repeated. All of East Asia is aware that military interventions would work against the accomplishment of the idea which is what happened in the 20th century. There will definitely be enormous efforts of co-operation between the Asian nations.
Any attempt by the West to derail this would first come from the most concerned parties which would be The US, Australia and New Zealand, later on Russia and the EU would enter the picture. But with three economic power-houses like China, Japan and Korea and considering the work ethic of Asia in general a derailment of the plan seems very unlikely.
What is happening in effect is the beginning of the creation of an Asian "common Market" and an Asian version of the Monroe Doctrine. All of this presents a problem for what has been the West's domination of Asian and world markets for the past 150 years. It is more likely that the West will use military intervention to protect is waining power than the East's attempt to assert their claims on world power. The only people who can derail the process would be the Asians themselves and that is very unlikely to happen. All in all it is beginning to look like Spengler was right. In any event it appears that the playing field is being leveled as never before in history and at a rate that is super-sonic.
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:10AM JST
Yawn...that was 70 years ago. And they have a constitutional ban on starting wars. China certaibly can't say the same and using 70 year old history as an excuse to justify acting the same way is sheer nonsense.
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:25AM JST
Not at all cletus. I support American interests and if the Japanese nationlism helps the US agenda then I suppport it. Of course you being an Chinese nationalist and a supporter of the PRC dictatorship and only hang around thios site to post anti-Japan and anti-US posts, of course you would see it that way.
"Today they are openly stepping on the toes of all of their Asian neighbors."
No cletus, read the article and read all the articles about China's disputes. China is not the only country with disputes, it is the only country that is taking a belligerent attitude about it and theatening it's neighbors with force to get their way. Why do you think all of ASEAN has tyurned to the U.S. for support against China?
The odds of Japan ever returtning to a nationlaist militant dictatorship again after 70 years is close to zero, whereas China is exactly that right now.
Yes China is headed in that dfirection. They have started wars with the UN on the Korean Penninsula, with India and Vietnam, and is using force to bully their neighbors. They have a massve need for natural resources that can only be met with a military and territorial expansion agenda. Sound familar???
"China whines about Japan of 70 years ago while doing the same thing today."
No cletus, China is headed in that direction and trhey are considered a threeat by all of Asia today. A one party dictatorship with authoritaruian rule and state control that uses nationalism to control it's masses and military force and theat to get it's ways diplomatically....sorry cletus, but China is EXACTL:Y like Japan 70 years ago.
"I am all for a more right wing influence on the J-govt as it will get them off their seats and become a more active participasnt in upholding the peace and security of East Asia."
It's ony strange to you because you are in deliberate denial of the threat that China is posing to all of Asia, and you are unaware that the US has had a policy of rebuiilding Japan's military since the Korean War. Today the peace and security of East Asia depends on containing CHINA and all of Asia agrees.,
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:32AM JST
Yea sure. That's why thge US and Japan share military intelligence on China and North Korea. Keep dreaming.
Feihu at Jul. 31, 2012 - 05:58AM JST
The wording by one poster that the Chinese INVADED the Korean Peninsula and attacked the UN is wilfully misleading and a clever attempt at promoting American revisionist history. The Korean conflict began June 25, 1950 with the invasion of the ROK by North Korean forces. On June 27 President Truman order US troops to support the ROK military. In July 1950 the UN forces entered the war. Still no sign of China. But on October 15 at the behest of the North Korean government Chinese forces crossed the Yalu and on the 25 of October Chinese forces engaged UN forces for the very first time. That was more than 4 months after the start of hostilities on the Korean peninsula. To paint China as the aggressor in the Korean conflict is as wrong as calling the UN forces aggressors. Both forces were called in by the North and South Korean Governments. The attempt to paint another picture than that is simply a gross untruth.
Also to say that China invaded India and Viet Nam in modern times is also misinformation. Those were border skirmishes quite different from something like Iraq where aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation thousands of miles from the aggressor's national territory is clearly evident. Viet Nam was similar. The Chinese military knew that such an invasion would slow down progress. These border skirmishes were simply posturing by both sides. Wrong, perhaps but nothing like a prolonged conflict. China will do the same with the Senkaku Islands but they will not attack and invade those islands because it would simply slow down progress in China.
Would China like to hold an international position of control? Of course so would the US like to regain the influence and power they have lost over the past three decades and the UK would like to be in the same position. Even Andorra would like to control the world. All governments lust after power both domestic and international. I think the Chinese government is well aware of the fact that that power cannot be obtained by beating someone over the head. I am not too sure that the American and Russian governments understand that. Both are by nature far more bellicose nations than China but China with the size of its military can afford to posture more in the region.
ka_chan at Jul. 31, 2012 - 06:26AM JST
Those who believe that Japan will not repeat the mistake of going ultra-right need to look at history. During Taisho, the struggle with the ultra-right began and basically ended with ketsumeidan jiken and the ni-niroku jiken where liberal politicians and businessmen were targeted for as assassination. There coups d'état attempts by the members of the military. Although most of these failed, it did push Japan more and more to the right until it became a fascist state. This era is very similar to the era before WWII. Most countries are being forced to the right whether it is by the conservative religious groups or just general conservative groups. Only time will tell which countries will go all the way to fascism.
As for China, she did subjugate Napal.
OssanAmerica at Jul. 31, 2012 - 06:53AM JST
Yes, Japan started going ultra-right after 1922. Japan was an Allied Nation in the Boxer Rebellion, supported by the United States and Britain in the Russo-Japanese War and again an allied nation in WWI 1915-1917. Since 1945 Japan has had a constututional limit on starting a war. This era is nothing like the era leading up the WWII period because the populace has enjoyed democracy for 70 years, something that pre-1920s Japan never was. With the constitutional change of their Emperor from the State itself to a symbol of the state, the authority to control the country can not be taken by the milirary as it was in the past. Furthermlore todays economic, political and stragetic relatiomnaships with not just the US but other democratic nations is such that a repeat of pre-WWII is literally impossible.
Simon Foston at Jul. 31, 2012 - 09:59AM JST
Some people have enjoyed a bit more democracy than others due to the disparity in the value of rural and urban votes. Furthermore some people who don't see anything wrong with pre-WWII Japan seem to have a disproportionate amount of power and influence, e.g. Shinzo Abe who was luckily a useless silver spoon-fed moron.
HansNFranz at Jul. 31, 2012 - 02:43PM JST
@kazetsukai Japan was feared for its psychotic take on wars - you can't know what a crazy person is up to, that's what makes them dangerous. But the situation has changed with the introduction of nuclear weapons. If Japan ever decides to "stand united" again and invade any neighbor, it will be erased in less than 2 hours, with zero lives lost on the opposing side. And if Japan decides it wants to go back to dark, nationalist times, because it is too envious on Korea and China competing in the modern world, something that Japan still seems not be able to, then the world wouldn't care much about it. Maybe it would wish Japan good luck and wait until it has destroyed itself. Both scenarios are unlikely and hard to imagine, but they are the only two options the "visions" of the Japanese right-wingers will lead Japan into. It is amusing to see if Japan will give these crazies the attention they crave.
Darren Brannan at Jul. 31, 2012 - 06:40PM JST
Tamogami did this because every idiotic thing that has come from his mouth has been censured by the Japanese Government.Unfortunately the growing popularity of Fashimoto and Ishihara will give credibility to his ilk.
just-a-bigguy at Jul. 31, 2012 - 08:13PM JST
Mr Tamogami's party just making Japan worse and the people of Japan understood this! He cant lead the country he has no idea how to lead a nation, he is just fooling himself and others! Mayb he knows how to fly a F15 but certainly not politics, he just screwing the state! Japan has too many parties and his party just spreading more chaos in the parliament!
just-a-bigguy at Jul. 31, 2012 - 08:19PM JST
In Japan, there are pro-China politicians and there are ‘conservatives,’ but almost all of those are pro-American and say ‘let’s do what America tells us to do,’” said Tamogami
Japan leaned on other countries, from the British empire during Meiji to Nazi Germany in WW2 and then the United states in post war years, so is Mr Tamogami suggesting Japan to 'lean-on herself'?? Interesting!!
YuriOtani at Jul. 31, 2012 - 09:16PM JST
Appeasement never works, first it is these islands, then the southern Okinawa islands and then the main island. Not sure about the rest of his platform but am sure he is right about the Chinese.
Eduardo Gonzalez at Aug. 01, 2012 - 10:42AM JST
I agree. Make a switch to Federative government just like USA, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Australia, India, etc.
Because as this country is divided in prefectures, a nationalist party fits in better