Ryan drags out his momma? 

Haha, the height of desperation.

I hope she's still there in November to comfort her boy after he and his party get hammered in the polls

@Sushi .

I hope she's still there in November to comfort her boy after he and his party get hammered in the polls

Don't you think that comment was a little too harsh? What's wrong with you? Can't you just keep the focus on Ryan?

Ryan drags out his momma?

Spoken with the kind of compassion we'd expect from proponents of rationed health care. One's elderly parents have to be 'dragged' around?

Bass - "Don't you think that comment was a little too harsh?"

Logic never fails to fly right over the heads of the conservatives, folks who support a party hell bent on shredding Medicare/Medicaid for the aged, suppressing voting rights for minorities, and that sparked a recession that dumped millions of people on welfare.

And YOU talk about 'harsh'?

The mind just boggles.

The mind just boggles.

I have to ask. Sushisake3, how many of your relatives are on Medicare? What was your last experience at an American hospital like? Do you personally know anyone whose right to vote was supposedly oppressed ( other than US military, overwhelmingly conservative, denied their votes by Democrats)? If so, in what state was this allowed to happen? Also - do you know anyone on welfare? Do you know what you can buy with your EBT card now that Obama has gutted the very admirable welfare reforms that were made in the Clinton years?

"Ryan tried to strike a careful balance on a dicey subject in his speech at a sprawling retirement community in central Florida. Ryan says Medicare will be protected for people in and near retirement, and he wants to see younger generations offered alternatives to the entitlement."

And yet Ryan blatantly lies about asking for and receiving stimulus funds, which he declares he was adamantly against. The mind just boggles, indeed.

@Sushi

Logic never fails to fly right over the heads of the conservatives, folks who support a party hell bent on shredding Medicare/Medicaid for the aged, suppressing voting rights for minorities, and that sparked a recession that dumped millions of people on welfare.

As to why you always say something that is so blatantly false is beyond me.

Obamacare raids Medicare. It takes more than $500 billion from Medicare to spend on the president’s health care law, not to extend Medicare’s solvency. Just as people have complained for years that we are raiding the Social Security trust fund, the president’s health care law does the same to Medicare.

Obamacare rations Medicare. The health care law establishes an unaccountable board of 15 unelected bureaucrats—called the Independent Payment Advisory Board—to cut Medicare in ways that will result in restricted access and denied care for current seniors.

Obamacare fails to avert Medicare’s bankruptcy. It adds layers of new red tape and bureaucracy that have failed to control Medicare’s explosive growth over its 50-year history. The top-down, government-centered approach is unworkable, fails to control cost growth, and is more likely to drive providers out of the system and further diminish the quality of care for America’s seniors.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/obama-misrepresents-ryans-plan/

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-medicare-plan/

http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/08/14/cnn-destroys-obamas-medicare-lies-thats-right-cnn/

Is there ANY, seriously ANY level that liberals won't go to get their point across? You guys want to support a do nothing President, that's fine, but at least have the decency to stop repeating the lies and false accusations over and over again. They were debunked, you can't fool people! Ryan is NOT trying to take anything away from anyone, particularly Senior citizens.

And YOU talk about 'harsh'?

Being harsh is what liberals are experts at.

The mind just boggles.

Yes, I agree!

@Il

Excellent point, nailed it!

"Is there ANY, seriously ANY level that liberals won't go to get their point across?"

Heh, do "Death Panels" and "Obama's ties to terrorists" ring any bells, bass?

Being a European I just look on in embarrassed amazement at the spectacle of a US election cycle, but I note with interest that the democrats haven't hesitated this time around to stoop to the despicable level of behaviour that was born into the world howling from Karl Rove's backside ......

The republicans really really aren't liking a dose of their own medicine.

Heh, do "Death Panels" and "Obama's ties to terrorists" ring any bells, bass?

They sure do. Which is the truth!

Being a European I just look on in embarrassed amazement at the spectacle of a US election cycle,

Being an American, I really don't care what the European mindset is or how it thinks, they can't vote, so why should I care? Besides, you guys have your hands quite full yourselves.

but I note with interest that the democrats haven't hesitated this time around to stoop to the despicable level of behaviour that was born into the world howling from Karl Rove's backside ......

LoL, Of course, you don't see it, how could you? I Know Europe very well, I spent 25 years there and I know it's awash with liberalism to the point of it that all values are out the window. You guys believe wealth is static and quantifiable, and that that it should be divided equally. So, if I have "too much money", it follows that I must have stolen someone else’s "fair share". Liberals cannot conceive of a problem that cannot be solved without Government intervention. Although more often than not, Government Action created the problem in the first place. But you guys see everything from a liberal, pragmatic POV. Yes, we know Conservative is a bad word in Europe, well, that's your society, Nothing wrong with it. I love Europe, but Europe is NOT America, so thanks for the statement.

Heh, do "Death Panels" and "Obama's ties to terrorists" ring any bells, bass?

Yes the tactics did so well that the Republican's turned off a lot of the electorate and lost the election to then Senator Obama.

The republicans really really aren't liking a dose of their own medicine.

Bring it on, because your getting exactly the same results which are turning off voters for the Democrats as it did for the Republican's the last time.

"Bring it on, because your getting exactly the same results which are turning off voters for the Democrats as it did for the Republican's the last time."

You make it sound like the opposition is innocent of continuing the lowlife tactics when both sides are being equally stupid. America is tearing itself apart and both parties are encouraging it.

Usually when you stoop to someone else's level they trounce you with experience, but it seems like the repubs have been so gob-smacked with the opposition using their tactics they don't know their heads from their arses.

"You guys believe wealth is static and quantifiable, and that that it should be divided equally. "

Where do I even start with that load of nonsense?

" So, if I have "too much money", it follows that I must have stolen someone else’s "fair share" "

Or this?

Oh, and Sail,

Sarah Palin's 'death panel' claim rises from the grave

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-sarah-palins-death-panel-claim-rises-from-the-grave-20120625,0,7057615.story

"Palin wrote, "I reiterate what I wrote in my first post on this topic nearly three years ago. I stand by everything I wrote in that warning to my fellow Americans because what was true then is true now"

Heh, that was your tea party darling screeching her stupidity anew in June of this year. That the repubs still can't get her to shut her mouth (and that some actually don't want her to) speaks volumes as to how the party is imploding under the weight of its' own bitterness and hate.

@Mad

You make it sound like the opposition is innocent of continuing the lowlife tactics when both sides are being equally stupid. America is tearing itself apart and both parties are encouraging it.

I will submit to you that America is tearing itself apart and that both sides are hyper-partisan, however, Liberals always, always get over-the-top nasty about everything, slurs, insults, foul language, yes, Conservatives can say slanderous things, but I assure you, if you go on ANY of the liberal sites, the nastiness, the vitriol and the hatred is coming from the right. I'll bet you check 5 liberal sites and if you can find 6 conservative sites, you will see the foulest language on the liberal sites. Point is, both sides at this point and time don't like each other, think what you will, but if anyone seriously thinks that liberals didn't start this obnoxious assault first needs to get their heads examined.

Usually when you stoop to someone else's level they trounce you with experience, but it seems like the repubs have been so gob-smacked with the opposition using their tactics they don't know their heads from their arses.

This is what I am talking about.

bass4funk: "Being an American, I really don't care what the European mindset is or how it thinks, they can't vote, so why should I care? Besides, you guys have your hands quite full yourselves."

As has been stated, it's quite clear non-Americans know more about US politics than Americans do.

@smith

As has been stated, it's quite clear non-Americans know more about US politics than Americans do.

Yes, sir! You just go along and believe that. You are entitled to your opinion.

I will submit to you that America is tearing itself apart and that both sides are hyper-partisan, however, Liberals always, always get over-the-top nasty about everything, slurs, insults, foul language, yes, Conservatives can say slanderous things, but I assure you, if you go on ANY of the liberal sites, the nastiness, the vitriol and the hatred is coming from the right.

Liberals do, however, tend to be more proficient at the English language. Perhaps it is due to clarity of thought.

bass4funk:

Why should us european worry about your problems and conflicts as you say we got our hands quite full. We don't need the extra burden, go it alone.

Still take japanese medicare over european and won't even consider US one.

As has been stated, it's quite clear non-Americans know more about US politics than Americans do.

It's been stated.

Never been proven.

And certainly not by smith.

Heh, that was your tea party darling screeching her stupidity anew in June of this year.

Her "stupidity"....Why do Liberals always have to name call?.....But I digress, Her "stupidity" is in reference to the 15 member board of unelected bureaucrats that will be entrusted with cutting costs in Medicare and is a huge piece of Obamacare. It is called Independent Payment Advisory Board and whose decisions can only be over-ruled by a super-majority in the Senate (good luck with that). Or as Ryan said in his speech that was not included in the article.....

“In addition to that,” Ryan continued, “he puts a board of 15 unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in charge of Medicare — who are required to [cut] care in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors.”

In order to cut costs this panel may very well decide that treatments to extend terminally ill patients may not be cost effective at all. Placing a pacemaker into a 95 year old patient truly isn't the best course from a monetary costs standpoint and this IPAB are the ones that will be making those type of Medicare payment decisions for the entire Nation..........Not the patients, Doctors or families on what treatment to follow or the best procedures. It is no stretch at all to make the case that this IPAB panel will in fact act as a de-facto death panel on what is covered and what will not be covered to save costs in the Medicare program. It's the very nature of the job that these un-elected bureaucrats will have to do.

Her "stupidity"....Why do Liberals always have to name call?...

The name-calling is as much a veiled threat to fellow travelers whose loyalty to The Cause might be flagging as it is an expression of hatred for 'The Other', as lefties like to say. For most libs their politics is a substitute religion. Heresy is not taken lightly. Single women are a slice of the demographic the party cannot afford to lose. Hence the intense hatred for a happily married well-adjusted woman who quite literally has it all and exhibits none of the disaffection and neurosis lefty feminists have brainwashed millions of young American women into believing was the lot of women 'back in the 50s', which is where conservative women like Sarah Palin are said to be stuck in.

Liberals do, however, tend to be more proficient at the English language. Perhaps it is due to clarity of thought.

A little late for April Fools don't you think?

Why should us european worry about your problems and conflicts as you say we got our hands quite full. We don't need the extra burden, go it alone.

Thank you!

Still take japanese medicare over european and won't even consider US one.

If you think that In Europe your precious Socialized FREEBE healthcare will sustain itself for another 15 years (let's say for arguments sake) you are so sadly mistaken. But my own US healthcare plan will outdo both the European and the Japanese single handily, respectively.

@il

The US is not Japan. For starters, American taxpayers subsidize medical care for millions of people who are in the US illegally. There is no way Japan would ever tolerate 1 in 15 people in their country scamming the native-born.

Remember, il, liberals NEVER can conceptualize or even begin to rationalize on that level.

Obama: "It's ( Romney's health care proposals ) the wrong direction for America"

As if ObamaCare is the right direction for America, lol.

Sail, the problem with cutting government spending is cutting government spending. Read this Wikipedia piece and tell me if you find any single objectionable piece in it, from a Republican perspective:

Beginning in 2013, the Chief Actuary of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services will determine in particular years the projected per capita growth rate for Medicare for a multi-year period ending in the second year thereafter (the "implementation year"). If the projection exceeds a target growth rate, IPAB must develop a proposal to reduce Medicare spending in the implementation year by a specified amount. If it is required to develop a proposal, the Board must submit that proposal in January of the year before the implementation year; thus, the first proposal could be submitted in January 2014 to take effect in 2015. If the Board fails to submit a proposal that the Chief Actuary certifies will achieve the savings target, the Secretary of Health and Human Services must submit a proposal that will achieve that amount of savings. The Secretary must then implement the proposal unless Congress enacts resolutions made to override the Board's (or the Secretary's) decisions under a fast-track procedure that the law sets forth.

They're not deciding on whether grandma gets that specific treatment; they're reporting on cost projections and goals.

At any rate, this is not happening in a vacuum: Those with private healthcare are not privileged to receive whatever care they feel entitled to. "Death panels" exist as we speak: They are called "insurance companies."

Palin was absolutely masterful this week.

By publicly suggesting in her sweetly snarky way that Obama dump Biden for Hillary, the most unfairly reviled object of the liberal media these last 3 decades gave a stark and painful reminder to the electorate that in 08, the supposedly transformational Obama snubbed a competent woman like HRC for a senate old boy like Slow Joe Biden; and Palin thereby effectively chained - as Sheriff Joe would say - incumbent Obama to the gaffe-prone Biden, in the same week no less that the entire nation is reviewing the role and influence of the VP.

Touche.

It's been stated.

Never been proven.

And certainly not by smith.

I think this is the fundamental problem with Liberals that they think that they are smarter, better, brighter and just overall perfect in every way. The elite of the elite and higher on the evolutionary ladder than ANY Conservative that has every walked the Earth and we see that in Obama, chin up, snuff attitude. But the problem is with all that IQ you Dems seem to have, with all the intelligence, with all the power that you guys have in print and media. You cannot:

Keep any liberal radio station Fix the 8.3% unemployment Fix our borders Fix healthcare Fix our debt Stop spending Lower the Deficit 2 years of Democratic 3 branches and nothing to show for it Have 98% of the media in your pocket (but still get beaten by FOX) Use foul language and insults to get your points across every time (most conservatives don't, but hey we are the dumb ones)

With all that what do you liberals have? Seriously? But I too, digress.

All of that may be true. Liberals do, however, have a flair for punctuation.

You see, punctuation comes from the English language. A comma or lack thereof may completely change the meaning of a sentence. Lawyers argue for hours over commas and make big money doing so.

Some look at problems, bemoan them, and put labels on the reasons why they exist. Others look for causes and solutions. The latter lay out their plans in election platforms; the former spout platitudes about "values" and appeal to the electorate for trust.

Intelligence is what intelligence does; foolishness follows the same rules. A vote for Romney is not a vote for a sentient being; it is a vote for the GOP agenda, driven by the house, personified by who Ryan pretends to be now.

Some look at problems, bemoan them, and put labels on the reasons why they exist. Others look for causes and solutions.

So why hasn't the current bunch of liberals in the White House , with majorities in the Senate and House until Jan 2010, bothered to even present the nation with a budget ?????

It takes 51 votes from the Senate. Democrats had and still have it within their power to easily pass a budget.

The country has gone more than one thousand days without a freaking federal budget.

Obama and the Democrats have no reply.It is absolutely indefensible. They have failed to uphold the most basic duties they took oaths to perform. The mainstream media's abdication of any responsibility for covering this matter is beyond disgusting.

At least Paul Ryan and his party have drawn up a plan for us to decide upon.

Read this Wikipedia piece and tell me if you find any single objectionable piece in it, from a Republican perspective:

A) It sets up a board of 15 bureaucrats tasked with cutting spending if projected costs rise above the targets.

B) If this board fails in finding a consensus on what spending to cut, it cedes its authority to Secretary of Health and Human Services who must implement what spending cuts he or she deems is appropriate to meet the spending cut targets.

C) This panel goes to now being useless and total discretionary spending decisions are now handed over to the Medicare Czar.

D) Congress can enact a resolution and scuttle all spending cuts if they don't like the spending cut proposals and we all are back to square one, no cuts, out of controlled spending and political hyperbole about who really wants to throw granny over the cliff again.

E) Does nothing at all to interject the private market and competition into the current Medicare system to control costs such as Ryan's and Wyden's bi-partisan voucher approach. Which has been around in different bi-partisan formats when tackling Medicare reform since the late 90's starting with Sen. John Breaux, D-La commission to reform the system using exactly the same premium support model Ryan's does to bend down costs using free market forces.

F) As in capital "F"..........Distorts the market, puts faceless bureaucrats in control, uses a top down approach, and personifies the worse in how Washington does business and solves problems.

And yet Ryan blatantly lies about asking for and receiving stimulus funds, which he declares he was adamantly against. The mind just boggles, indeed.

I don't have a problem with politicians who opposed the stimulus ideologically wanting to use the money to best serve the constituents of their state and district once it becomes available and is there for the taking. That is their job. What makes Ryan look like a hypocrite was publicly arguing the stimulus will not create jobs then privately writing proposals in which he would use stimulus to create jobs. There is nothing mind blowing about politicians lying but he certainly needs to realize he's jumped up a league and can't get away with outright deception anymore.

Republicans are all for cutting government spending until cutting government spending is proposed. Romney has made it his hallmark to trim spending and make government more efficient, and yet when addressing a proposal which would do just that, he balks. Eliminate free riders from healthcare, cut Medicare embursements by that amount, and the nation is better off: That is an idea originating from Republican thinktanks. Too bad about ideological-caused amnesia.

A) It sets up a board of 15 bureaucrats tasked with cutting spending if projected costs rise above the targets.

Replace "bureaucrats" with "medical experts" (which is what it will be) and is more realistic.

If this board fails in finding a consensus on what spending to cut, it cedes its authority to Secretary of Health and Human Services who must implement what spending cuts he or she deems is appropriate to meet the spending cut targets.

Someone must have accountability. Lucky for these that it is not the CEO of some for-profit insurance company.

Does nothing at all to interject the private market and competition into the current Medicare system to control costs such as Ryan's and Wyden's bi-partisan voucher approach.

People are free to enjoy their private market approach currently. Look how insurance competition has rationalized US healthcare! - People love it! They are welcome to continue with that if they would like. Some would like the assurance of a non-profit based system. Romney/Ryan would give them a choice - but not really: they would defund the public option, underfund the public option, and leave future seniors to their own measures.

Medicare and Social Security are untenable in their current forms. I welcome debate over how to restructure it to reflect a shrinking revenue base relative to a growing number of people that will be drawing from it.

The best thing a politician could do while surrounded by seniors would be to say, "Years ago we made you and your children a promise that we will help you in your later years. We can no longer back up that promise in its current form." Then address why and explain the process by which services will be drawn down to reflect the canging demographic of the country.

Honestly, these programs were designed for the venerable. People that were so old they had no means of taking care of themselves. In this day and age people in their 60's are far from helpless. At a minimum the age requirement should be pushed back to 70 and I would consider pushing it back even further to 80 or 85 years.

All of that may be true. Liberals do, however, have a flair for punctuation.

And with Mr. Biden as a standard bearer I know that the elegence and grace of the language is in good hands. I hear it's a pretty big deal.

...we have a better insight and understanding about Europe and their affairs better than they do usually.

Hi bass.

I remember as a kid watching a programme on TV called "Newsround" (basically news for elementary school students). They had a report on the fact that 45% of American geography majors in the States identified Iceland as "Great Britain" in a survey. Geography majors.

Sailwind,

"Tell me one area where Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin would disagree? I cannot find one area. So somehow he's the smartest guy in the party and she's the stupidest woman on earth, but they agree on everything." -Bill Maher

@luca

I remember as a kid watching a programme on TV called "Newsround" (basically news for elementary school students). They had a report on the fact that 45% of American geography majors in the States identified Iceland as "Great Britain" in a survey. Geography majors.

What they didn't tell you is that our public school system is run by the government and the majority of teachers and professors are liberals. Go figure.

Madverts,

she's the stupidest woman on earth, but they agree on everything." -Bill Maher

As I stated earlier why do Liberals always have to insult those that don't agree with them and resort to juvenile name calling? The stupidest woman on earth..... Now that is some real high class powered intellect on display by Bill Maher.

@sailwind

And yet it's strange that I knew immediately who he was talking about, just from this quotation. I guess she hasn't got any serious rivals for this particular accolade.

And yet it's strange that I knew immediately who he was talking about, just from this quotation. I guess she hasn't got any serious rivals for this particular accolade.

Agreed, I'm still chuckling at his comedic brilliance about her and myself living in Japan regarding past events here.

“Did you hear this – Sarah Palin finally heard what happened in Japan and she’s demanding that we invade ‘Tsunami,’” Maher said. “I mean she said, ‘These ‘Tsunamians’ will not get away with this.’ Oh speaking of dumb twats, did you –”

Maher isn’t one to avoid crossing those lines and was rewarded with approval from his audience.

“I let the cat out the bag on that one, huh folks,” Maher said

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/03/19/billmahersarahpalinisadumb_twat.html