Man punched in face by fellow train commuter over phone manners

TOKYO —

A man was arrested after punching another man in the face for purportedly having bad cell phone manners Monday morning at Takadanobaba station on the Seibu Shinjuku Line.

According to police, 49-year-old Hiroshi Matsukawa had warned a fellow passenger to obey the mobile phone manner rules while the two were riding the train. The man reportedly talked back to him, causing Matsukawa to get angry and punch him in the face when they both got out at the next station, witnesses said. After being punched, the man teetered on the edge of the platform and his arm was broken by a train passing through the station.

Matsukawa was quoted by police as saying: “I warned him and he complained back at me. That really pissed me off.”

News reports

  • 0

    meloveulongtime

    what an idiot...try this with me Hiroshi and the result will be much different. I hate these social police...what an idiot!!!

  • 0

    Beelzebub

    No need to punch anyone -- just make it a point to carry one of those toys that produce a loud squawk when you compress the rubber bulb. Hold it up to the offender's other ear and squeeze, repeatedly, until he or she rings off.

  • -1

    the_odeman

    ha good on him, atleast some people are actually doing something and standing up for themselves, even if they are going overboard a bit

  • 0

    my2sense

    would love to see this on youtube!

  • 0

    Betting

    It annoys the heck out of me, these people who use phones on the train. And I can kind of understand him losing his temper and throwing a punch, but to nearly get someone killed as a result is not understandable, he should have been arrested.

  • 0

    genji17

    What did the five fingers say to the face??? SLAP. Wow...you wouldnt expect something like that, and then to have his arm broken by a train...geez. How about just take their phone and turn it off?

    Though I see more things like this, a few months ago on the Yamanote some drunk factory worker (guess by uniform) grabbed my Japanese friend by the throat because he thought my friend was talking too loud...too much pent up aggression and no way to release the steam...

  • 0

    whiskeysour

    hahahaha !!!!! funny story !!! I wish I was there to see the "sucker punch" !!!! I predict more train fights on the horizon !!!

  • 0

    2020hindsight

    I can't understand Japan's hypocrisy on noise. In many countries it's OK to talk on a phone on a train. In Japan not. However, the last time I was in Akihabara I couldn't find anywhere I could even make a phone call with people on step ladders with megaphones blasting noise in my face.

  • 0

    smartacus

    There is nothing funny about the story. The guy almost fell off the platform to his death.

    The real problem is not lack of manners on the part of the person using the phone. There has always been a lack of manners by commuters whether they are using phones, putting on makeup, slouching on seats, etc. That's not new.

    What is more noticeable is the short fuse of people in Japan. Once upon a time, if you made a request to someone like that, and they ignored you, you'd probably just shrug your shoulders and put up with it. Now, the tendency is to fly off the handle.

    Big cities are full of walking time bombs. All it takes to set them off is a high stress level and hot temperatures.

  • 0

    Pukey2

    While this guy went overboard, I can understand how annoying it can be sometimes. Emergency calls, short calls taken quietly, and telling the person on the other end where you are are fine, but when the caller is gossiping loudly for hours on end, then it can really get on your nerves.

  • 0

    komachi0jim

    While I do think more people need to be punched in the face in this country, I am forever struggling to see the difference between having a conversation with a person on a train or a bus and having a conversation over the phone. I'm down with "manner mode" and all that, but I see no reason for library silence on public transportation.

  • 0

    Takuma7

    Way to go! People need more manners here.

  • 0

    herefornow

    2020 -- great point. Yup, it is OK to almost lose your hearing due to idiots hawking some cheap goods at a store, or politicians blaring speaches from the top of white vans, or the right-wing nuts ranting from their black trucks, but, use your mobile on the train or on the bus, and you are disturbing the peace. What peace? Tokyo must set world records for noise polution. Let's cut the hypocritical nonsense and stop pretending Japan is something that it isn't.

  • 0

    thepro

    Why are trains in Japan treated as libraries anyway? Everywhere else is noisy as hell

  • 0

    GenConsensus

    There are many occasions every day where someone really needed to get punched in the face on the train. I’m ashamed to say I’ve restrained myself many times in such occasions. This man is a hero. It’s unfortunate the man broke his arm (yet very funny at the same time), which probably led to the hero’s arrest.

  • 0

    najm29

    I can't belive what I'm hearing, if you think it's alright to hit someone every time they do something you don't like your crazy.

  • 0

    BTTSimon

    Well to me the hitting by the train seems like a accident, seems like the mouthy git had a glass jaw!

  • 0

    nisegaijin

    Unfortunate about the arm, but nothing wrong with good old scrap.

    But sometimes I wonder why do these cell phone "rules" even exist?

  • 0

    M51T

    When some clown is barking at their phone when your ear is inches away from their mouth, you lose control. You can walk away from most noise, but not so on a train or bus. The guy back chatted and got punched. Hopefully the train crushed his phone. I don't punch but 'accidental' shoulders, elbows and knees or coughing at their phone soon shut the conversation down.

  • 0

    Baibaikin

    I can see it now. A cocky salaryman shows a complete disregard for the people around him on the hot, crowded, stuffy commuter train, and the oyaji, with the smell of sweet coffee and cigs on his breath, self-righteously barks at him as if the noise was tearing away at the very fabric of Japanese society. Meanwhile, everyone else on the train is thinking 'Shut up, you w*nkers, and let me get on with my book before yet another long day in a hot office'. The 'teetering' result doesn't tell me if the punch was a good'n or not, but I vote that the police stick them both in a room and set a hose on them.

  • 0

    Disillusioned

    Ah, yes! Another ego-centric megalomaniac takes out his frustrations on a person doing the same as every other person on the train. Have you ever seen anyone turn off their phones when standing near or sitting on the priority seats? There are no laws in Japan. Only guidelines. This maniac is lucky the fella he hit didn't fall in front of the train. I hope he is charged with assault, affray and being a public nuisance and is given a couple of months in the cooler to reflect on his ego-maniacal mental issues. - Sadly, there are no penalties for disobeying phone etiquette rules on trains.

  • 0

    Eyeblack

    I think the bad phone manners is much worse than punching someone in the face.

  • 0

    kaatosan

    Meh - the guy deserved to be punched in the face. It's unfortunate that the guy broke his arm - that was probably not intended.

    Historically, the rules were really followed in Japan (at least in public), as you didn't want any embarrassment from disobeying. Now, Japanese have lost their moral compass and just do what they please, because nobody punishes or embarrasses anyone for anything much anymore.

  • 0

    pointofview

    If someone is speaking quietly and then who cares. No disturbing, no need to get pushy. Some people tell you to get off the phone even if they can`t hear you, the simple fact that you are on the phone is what urks them.

  • 0

    seesaw

    I love this story!! Someone has to teach those idiots who don't follow phone manners in the train....lol

  • 0

    ratpack

    I'd rather hear someone chatting away on their cellphone than have to listen to an ojisan sucking his teeth and/or an obasan smacking her mouth open and shut on gum anyday of the week.

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    Broke his arm by a passing train thus meaning he was a fraction away from death...

    Yeah, seriously. Way to go. Let's fatally injure those people who don't use their cell phone correctly. That's a civillized society for you.

  • 0

    JA_Cruise

    What is it about talking on the cell phone that irks people so much? What is the noise pollution difference between two people having an intense talk on the train which is okay, and one person talking on the cell phone? Too many uptight people who need to vent out their frustrations, maybe you need to go exercise.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    I'm glad the guy had the courage to say something to the man -- most just pretend to ignore what's going on around them and simply hope it will stop -- but to punch him in the face while the man was close to the edge of the platform is more than unjustified. Why are people here wound so tight and snap so easily? The man who was punched could easily have fallen on the tracks and been killed by the train instead of just having his arm broken.

    Anyway, while I can understand the urge to lash out, you can easily refrain from doing so. This man complains about bad manners and then punches someone in the face and inadvertently breaking his arm?

  • 0

    Scrote

    I suppose they could have noisy and quiet coaches, so that those who cannot restrain themselves can talk away freely. At least they haven't reached the stage of playing awful music from their phones yet, as the youth do in the UK.

  • 0

    realist

    Mobile phones are for that purpose - to be used while you are mobile. Its only in Japan that these stupid, brainless "rules" exist that you are not allowed to use your mobile phone while you are mobile on a train. In other countries, there is no problem. I agree with ratpack - Id rather listen to someone using a phone than hear an ojiisan sucking his teeth, anyday. It amazes me that these "silence" rules exist on trains. The Japanese people are the noisiest people I know, in other situations.

    I think in this case, both these guys were in the wrong - but the one who punched is the one who needs to be locked up and punished for a vicious physicval assault on another human being, no matter what the provocation. Japan is a nation of bullying, so the bully boys are always around, to try to enforce their will on the weak.

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    I think that the biggest problem with mobiles on the train is that people seem to want to shout when they use them. If they talked normally like they were having a regular conversation there would be no issues.

  • 0

    tclh

    What had happened if the noisy man was very large, powerful and ready for violent? Who will dare to punch him in the face then? Next time just move to another carriage ,and/or imagine the bird is singing...

  • 0

    sakurasuki

    Agree with Patrick Smash, realist and ratpack. The amount of noise pollution resulted from talking in the phone is much less compare to two person or more having a chat. So the reason that talking in the phone making noise pollution is obviously out of question.

    Having this incident and poster about manners in Subway would lead another rampage in the future. Since the tension in big city is already high the poster only give excuse for these stress people to relieve their stress to people who doesn't "comply" with these set of manners.

    Poor Matsukawa, he will have to face the Law for sure whereas the person who considerably break fabricated-manner rule did nothing that could break the law.

  • 0

    sf2k

    This is pretty sad but I don't think.....hold on my cell is ringing...HEY, WHAT'S UP? OH, I'M ON A WEBFORUM RIGHT NOW, SOMETHING ABOUT A GUY TALKING ON HIS CELL ON A TRAIN THEN GETTING HIT BY A TRAIN AFTER BEING IN AN ALTERCATION OVER A IRRITATING CELLPHONE CONVERSATION, WEIRD REALLY... ANYWAY I'LL CALL YOU BACK IN A BIT... oh where was I? Yeah anyway, could happen to anyone but not seeing how this could lead to violence.

  • 0

    Beelzebub

    Tokyoites have become so accustomed to ignoring one another, being addressed by a complete stranger is now regarded as offensive.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    2020hindsight at 09:26 AM JST - 15th June I can't understand Japan's hypocrisy on noise. In many countries it's OK to talk on a phone on a train. In Japan not. However, the last time I was in Akihabara I couldn't find anywhere I could even make a phone call with people on step ladders with megaphones blasting noise in my face.

    I'll second that one 2020. Or should I say 3rd it as someone else already 2nd it. I wonder why it's ok for other kind of noise making but such low noise such as my ipod turned up so that I can hear the music over the clack clack clack of train wheels bothers people. The train makes more noise. I don't care if a guy has an ipod that I can hear the lyrics to his songs. I care that he doesn't stand on my feet, cough or sneeze on me or breath smokers breath on me or have clothing that reek of sweat or tabacco. I can stand that he likes to listen to music or talk in a normal voice to his friends. Now if he shouts to his friends beside me I'd be a bit annoyed.

  • 0

    MottoMatto

    There's nothing wrong with being on the phone on a train as long as you aren't loud and obnoxious. What annoys me most is when a group of high schoolers go on and on about who they're dating. That gets really loud, much louder than someone who keeps a phone conversation at a normal level. In Australia and the States, using phones on the train is normal and I can tell you there are certainly more annoying people on the train.

  • 0

    goddog

    Loud kids annoy me more than phones. I walk over to them and tell them no one cares about their stories and to shut up.

  • 0

    illsayit

    This guy really shouldnt have said anything if he couldnt keep his temper. Having said that, I think these type of rules suck. I also think realistically speaking, that people are bound to become physically abusive, when there is a overload on verbal abuse.

  • 0

    nightflesh

    When I ride the trains, I feel that is a time to relax much like when you are at home or in your car. Most people that are on the trains are either going somewhere or have been working hard or coming back from a long day trip. The trains would be considered a relaxing time to gather yourself or maybe think about what to do after you get off. Japan has made the trains a very quiet environment solely for that purpose. The only noise you hear on the trains most of the time is from within the train. Also, people forget to realize is that the intercom isn’t as loud as people think. When there isn’t that many people on the train it can be easily heard. But during very busy times, sometimes you can’t hear the train station on the intercom because there is so much noise in the train car. I have missed a stop before because of this situation and it was very frustrating.

    For this guy to speak up is good. We need more people to stand up to people breaking the rules. I know from past experience where I would like some peace and quiet from a very long day when I’m riding the train. I would get angry if someone is talking about their women issues (private stuff that shouldn’t be said out loud) or about how they were reading this one manga and IT WAS SO FUNNY HAHAH. It gets annoying and that is why there are rules that limit the amount of noise. Listening to your iPod, playing your DS or PSP, talking in a moderate voice for others to tolerate is fine. When it comes to talking on the phone or other occasions, most people sometimes never realize they are talking loud and some people just don’t care. It is those people that ruin it for the rest of the people riding the train. It is unfortunate this guy had broken his arm on an oncoming train but maybe he should take a punch better, j/k. Maybe the guy could have thrown him to the ground and mashed him up a little. Maybe give him a nice rear naked choke hehe.

  • 0

    meloveulongtime

    u all who think this guy did the right thing are nuts! This guy was an idiot! The vistim was not doing anything illegal and even if he was it was not Hiroshi's job to enforce the laws. He was talking on the phone too loud....big freakin' deal. Some people are waaaaay too sensitive about noise on the train. U all must lived here way too long if you think this was justified. Like I said before these "social police" are complete idiots!

  • 0

    fussagaijin

    He got punched in the face, knocked into another train and broke his arm...classic, nice combo!!!

  • 0

    sakurasuki

    To NightFlesh: Since you concern about the noise how about the people who having normal social conversation in the train, sometimes they can be pretty loud as well right?

  • 0

    jonobugs

    What's the adage? Two wrongs don't make a right, I think. While I agree that there is way too much noise pollution going on in Japan, why would you want to add to it on a train commute? I, for one, am glad that there are rules against cell phone usage, etc. It's just too bad that there aren't more rules for personal hygiene, and all the other annoying things people do.

    That said, resorting to violence for something that annoys you is definitely not cool. I think there are too many people who believe that it is the answer!

  • 0

    Frungy

    While I don't agree with his methods I can understand his frustration. You see someone disobeying the rules, so you tell them to please stop, and they carry right on. The thing is that it's a stupid rule, and not for the reasons other people have quoted, but rather because it's unenforceable. There's no room for conductors to walk up and down in the Tokyo subways, and even if you pull out your phone and snap a picture of the offender to prove he was breaking the rules ... well, there are a couple of hundred thousand commuters and the chances of the authorities finding him are next to zero ... not to mention that taking photos without permission could land you in hot water.

    Unenforceable rules are stupid and just make everyone frustrated, no matter how well-intentioned they are. A small phone signal scrambler in each car would solve the issue and render the signs unnecessary, because there's no need to tell people not to use their phones if they can't get a signal.

  • 0

    krisallenation

    bad manners on trains are when people seat down and pretend they´re sleeping as soon as they see an elderly or handicapped person needing a seat...

  • 0

    noirgaijin

    Way to go Hiroshi Matsukawa! I'm in your camp on this one. It is very annoying sometimes when someone is gabbing away on the phone about what happen last night in an already packed train car.

  • 0

    krisallenation

    dangerous and bad phone manners are when people talk on their cellphones while DRIVING!

  • 0

    nuclearash

    Great to see someone actually take a stand against talking on a cell phone. I've often wanted to say something to someone who talks away on their cell phone on the train.

  • 0

    hoserfella

    In theory I have nothing against someone talking on their cell phones on a train. However, I figure 80% of those that do have no idea/don't care how loud they are. And its almost always some self-important oyaji.

  • 0

    Nonews

    I have had people tell me to turn down my headphones when they havent even been on. Sometimes the complaining person is just trying to be a bullyめじめ. We do not know if the guy on the phone was loud, or if the guy telling him to be quiet was rude. We seem to draw a line in the sand and say it was one way or another and never see it as it is. By the way they have no law or rule about using a cell phone on a train, they ask you not to use one but its not a law nor an official rule.

  • 0

    mokgohan

    Hiroshi Matsukawa: A man who dared to live the dream.

  • 0

    bicultural

    The difference between talking on the phone and talking to the person next to you is that one of the two behaviors is banned on the train.

  • 0

    ssslithe

    While of course it's not on to punch people over something so trivial (if the guy was raping someone on a train, fair enough), I must say I despise people speaking loudly on the phone on public transport.

    A couple of months ago in London I had to endure a verrrry long, slow, hot bus journey where a girl nearby was yapping away on the phone to all her friends and relatives, one after another, broadcasting her whole life story to the entire bus. After 30 or 40 minutes of this we arrived at my stop, and as I got off the bus I said, "Good luck with the new job and your mum's new boyfriend, and have a nice dinner with Nancy tonight, yeah? Say hello from me." Not aggressively, but in an overly familiar tone. Hopefully it made her feel uncomfortable enough to keep her voice down in future.

    So yeah, while I sometimes dislike Japan's surplus rules and find people's manners on trains here leave a lot to be desired, I'm behind the the no-phones rule all the way.

  • 0

    m5c32

    What is it about talking on the cell phone that irks people so much?

    It's known that being exposed to a simplex conversation is more taxing on the brain then a duplex conversation. In the simplex, one only overhears one side and thus the brain attempts to "reconstruct" the unheard portion. Thus, being exposed to an in person conversation is less annoying than overhearing half of a phone conversation.

  • 0

    DC2020

    Is it banned? Really? I doubt it. Is it a even a real "rule" or just one of those better manners "do it at home" social rules that people think is somehow an enforceable law? We all hate people with bad manners but debating this like someone's breaking a rule or law is hillarious. Annoying as hell, yes, bad manners, yes, but not an excuse to use force. I recently saw this young lady (20's) tug on a 30-something fashionista's shirt who was chatting on the phone on the train.. she say's "Oba san, Oba san, chotto urusai yo". That was entertaining.

  • 0

    Pixilated

    Unenforceable rules are stupid and just make everyone frustrated, no matter how well-intentioned they are. A small phone signal scrambler in each car would solve the issue and render the signs unnecessary, because there's no need to tell people not to use their phones if they can't get a signal.

    And what happens when there's an emergency on the train and nobody can call for help? Or one of your relatives needs to contact you about an emergency at home, but you miss the call and proceed to wherever you're going anyway rather than getting off at an earlier stop to turn around?

  • 0

    dejaboo

    When I was pregnant I thought my water broke on the bus (it was just a leak!). I very quietly called my husband to pick me up to go to the hospital. Very quick, quiet call. The bus driver went OFF at me. Meanwile there were 3 fat, ugly old babas sitting up the front speaking VERY loudly in their obasan chatter about the souvenirs they'd picked up in Kamakura. I'm totally for manners on public transport, but a bit of #&%$ common sense, hey?

  • 0

    wontond

    I don't see anything wrong with talking quietly on a cell phone. I'm with krisallenation...able-bodied people who don't give up their seat for the elderly, sick or pregnant, are the real rude people.

  • 0

    bicultural

    The Japanese people are the noisiest people I know

    HA! This quote just made my day.

  • 0

    Badge213

    Good thing the guy didn't fall on the tracks or we'll be reading a headline of "Man murdered over bad phone manners"

  • 0

    Mikanojo

    i remember seeing the funny yellow signs that ask you to please do that at home, meaning NOT on the train.. but as someone else already said, that is not technically a law banning keitai on the train, the sign was actually a polite way of saying please do not be noisy. Some people may interpret that sign in a different way apparently ne? We do not know what the man said when he 'talked back' to the man who did the assault.. hai that IS what this is talking about.. 1 man assaulted another because he did not like how he was using his fone. And he lost his balance on the edge of the platform and a TRAIN hit his arm and broke it.. consider that if the man had been punched a moment sooner that he could have fallen in front of that same train.. then instead of assault it would be MURDER.. all over a few words spoken between strangers on a train? HOW INCREDIBLY STUPID ARE SOME PEOPLE?

  • 0

    cactusJack

    This was in the news lately and I think it is appropriate to post the link here on why one-sided conversations can really irritate people: "Why other people’s cell conversations make you stabby" http://www.inquisitr.com/73477/other-peoples-annoying-cell-phone-conversations/

  • 0

    TokyoXtreme

    As usual, the article lacks crucial details. Talking on the phone while on the train is simply not a big deal AT ALL. The only thing bothersome about phone is the RINGTONES, which are way too loud, an essentially the domain of grandma and grandpa. Don't know why old people never turn their ringers off; I guess they can't feel vibrations. How can anyone claim to be bothered by keitai conversation, when there are non-stop, redundant announcements by a recording, and the conductor himself, who repeats WHAT WAS JUST SAID, only much more loudly and in a nasally drone. They are almost SCREAMING the announcements. THAT is what makes train-riding hell for me. Keitai conversation is usually FAR quieter than normal train conversation, and at least it is human conversation... not pointless announcement-babying. If someone growled at me for talking on the phone, I'd tell him off too. And if he punched me, that would be me turning into Michael Douglas in "Falling Down".

  • 0

    Ninjazilla

    wow this is national news???

  • 0

    bobcatfish

    He has my full support

  • 0

    kujiranikusuki

    I have wanted to do simalr things so many times. 99% of the time Japanese people are so polite and considrate of each other. When someone decides to break that mold they do it in the most irritating way like yelling on cell phone on crowded train. Parking in the middle of a road just to chat to their yanki friend. etc.

  • 0

    farhaan

    For me alcohol smell of oyajis is more disturbing than someone talking loudly next to me in Tokyo metro. This is life and sometimes it becomes important to make/recieve call in trains. I also do that and I don't think anything wrong in that.

  • 0

    toopool

    I would have thought punching someone in the face is considered pretty bad manners.

  • 0

    FukuokaRocks

    Hiroshi Matsukawa is my hero.

  • 0

    apects

    Punching is not the solution here, but those who ride the train can appreciate Matsukawa's frustration. There are a lot of rude people out there.

  • 0

    genjuro

    Hmm. If the person on the phone was a gaijin speaking English I wonder if Hiroshi would've done the same thing. Though I'm guessing it'd be worse treatment if the offender were non-Japanese.

    Anyhow, don't they sell those signal-blocker gizmos that block phone signal reception within a certain area? Perhaps that would've been just as effective as well.

  • 0

    jason6

    less violence preeze. don't want this country turning into America.

  • 0

    PeaceWarrior

    I can see how this could have gone:

    A san: Don't push, Honey, I'll be at the hospital in a few minutes. Don't push yet. I'm doing my best to get there as soon as I can. Maybe ten minutes or so. What, CROWNING? NOW? I'll be there soon...

    B san: OI! UruSAI anta? KEITAI YameROU!!!

    A san: Leave me alone, I am in a hurry and I don't have to time to explain my behaviour to you. It's an important call.

    B san: Wait until we get off... I'll take care of you...

    The phone could have been an emergency, something super important, you know. And the Oyaji could have A. been very polite when asking the phone user to refrain from using his phone on the train, or B. been a complete d1ck when asking the phone user to refrain from using his phone on the train...

    Because of the punch, I vote for B.

    You don't need a train to hurt or kill someone... a punch will suffice!

  • 0

    bicultural

    DC2020, there's a sign in every car and they repeat the message after every station ... on the Yamanote anyway. It's banned in the same way people might be banned from smoking inside the lobby of a hotel. Will they get arrested? Maybe not, but it's certainly not acceptable behavior.

  • 0

    goosefraba

    "Hiroshi Matsukawa is my hero." This should be on a t-shirt. :P

    This made me laugh but Matsukawa must have some serious anger issues to punch a guy for talking back (younger guy? Confucianism matters). I get frustrated too but I just complain to other people rather than taking it to the person directly. Maybe not the best way to handle things...

    Everyone I know who has been to Japan comments on how quiet people are in the trains so it's surprising to see how many comments there are about loud people on trains. Just know that it's probably worse in other countries so appreciate what you have.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Now just what kind of genius logic rationalizes punching someone to enforce a manner? I mean who is more barbaric? The socialy rude guy on the cell phone or the goon that punched him for it? Espeically since it sounds like it nearly caused the guy to get killed had he fallen back a bit more.

    This kind of logic so often exemplifies the salarymen I see around Tokyo. The same guys who will be passing out on you on the way home are the jerks who are so picky about every little thing on the way into the office.

    I suspect this is frustration resulting from having little or no real control at home or work, so they exercise this attempt at manliness on the trains by becoming enforcers of the rules. Unless drunk of course.

    In my opinion, Mr. Enforcer here is the real social roach and not the cell phone guy.

  • 0

    poollymook

    The Seibu Shinjuku sen is absolutely bonkers during rush hour heading into town! The punk was more than likely talking i Hiroshi's ear.

    If you are going to talk back, pick your fight well...that's all I have to say! Oh...and the guy on the phone is a wanker.

    Hiroshi-1 Wanker-0

  • 0

    MistWizard

    Crazy. He could have died and it might have been an important call. Even if not an important call, what is the big deal if his volume of voice was reasonable? If people can talk to other people on the train, why not on the tel at the same level of voice. I think Mr. Society Policeman is also irked by people just talking and laughing on the train (because no one talks and laughs with him) but just does not feel empowered by society to tell them to pipe down.

    If there is some law that accounts for near-manslaughter, Mr. Society Policeman should be getting the max for it, on top of the assault and the injury of the broken arm.

    And do some of you ride the trains?? They are noisy! Ka-Klunk, Ka-Klunk, Ka-Klunk-Klunk, SCREEEEEEEEEEECH! Who cares if people talk in such a racket? Its not like ear-plugs are impossible to find and you will kill two birds at least with two ear-plugs.

  • 0

    Sarge

    "I am forever struggling to see the difference between having a conversation with someone on a train or a bus, and having a conversation on the phone"

    When two people on a train or bus are having a conversation, you hear both sides of the conversation, and you don't hear "Ima densha no naka... doko ni iru?...Hai... Hai... Hai... Wakarimashita..."

  • 0

    Farmboy

    Japan has rules, but depends on cooperation and trust rather than enforcement. Those who don't cooperate have traditionally been ignored for the most part, at least once those people are no longer anyone's responsibility. The trouble is, the number of noncooperating folks is growing, and incidents like this one, where someone decides to go vigilante in return, will no doubt increase in number as well.

    In a future cultural exchange program, maybe we can send noncooperators to Chicago for a week to learn that there really are limits, and somebody really will enforce the rules.

  • 1

    timtak

    MistWizard "Even if not an important call, what is the big deal if his volume of voice was reasonable?" Komachi0Jim "I am forever struggling to see the difference between having a conversation with a person on a train or a bus and having a conversation over the phone. I'm down with "manner mode" and all that, but I see no reason for library silence on public transportation."

    I agree.

    For an interesting answer read Nakajima Yoshimichi's "Taiwa no nai shakai" - Basically he claims that Japan is very tolerant of public speach (such as announcements) but very intolerant of private speech.

  • 0

    dolphingirl

    Farmboy: I think you're right. Honestly, I am surprised that there are not more of these stories (perhaps there are and we just don't hear about them in the news) People here are generally pretty tolerant of a lot of crap but I, too, sense that some are starting to lose their patience. However, that is NO reason to punch someone. As I tell my kindergarteners--Use your words, not your fists!

    The rule of 'no talking on the cellphone' on the train makes sense to me. If everyone were to chat on the phone during their commute it would be unbearable. Of course if someone calls you and you absolutely must talk, keep it as short as possible.

  • 0

    ramses68

    @ Farmboy Amen!

  • 0

    Klein2

    This from Frungy. A lot of good comments, but this really puts a finger on the frustration.

    "While I don't agree with his methods I can understand his frustration. You see someone disobeying the rules, so you tell them to please stop, and they carry right on. The thing is that it's a stupid rule, and not for the reasons other people have quoted, but rather because it's unenforceable. "

    Looks like Farmboy has already made my point, derivative of Frungy. Basically people are cheering punchman because he is a vigilante. When authority becomes unable to enforce social rules, then vigilantes pop up. The problem is that vigilantes are usually violent kooks. He was looking for someone to beat on, and phoneguy drew the short straw.

    Point to ponder: what did people get punched and stabbed for before there were stereos and mobile phones? Certainly not nose picking or snoring or the gene pool would be clean by now.

  • 0

    tokyotales

    “I warned him and he complained back at me. That really pissed me off.”

    Hey, at least he warned him!

  • 0

    mankomangler

    Hiroshi Matsukawa is awesome. He warned the guy.

  • 0

    meguro

    I had experienced inside the train , when I was using my IPHOne . I'm just surfing news on my phone then an oldwoman came beside me. She said in japanese, please turn off your phone . I was so surprise..

  • 0

    sassychan

    This reminded of what I saw on a train going to Chiba last August. Two Jii-san's got on at one of the stations. They obviously didn't know each other. The phone of one of the Jii-san's rang and he looked startled. He quickly turned it off but not before the other Jii-san told him to "not be rude" and "turn off his phone." The other one quickly apologized. Didn't make any excuses. I thought it was funny. I was thankful for the "no phones" rule on the trains though. I can't imagine being on the trains all the time with everyone chatting away. Think about it though, you've got 12 million people living shoulder to shoulder in Tokyo. Without all those little rules like slow people to the left for the escalators and stairs or the no phones on trains; people who'd be far more violent than a punch in the face.

  • 0

    fussagaijin

    I bet he won't be using his phone on the train anymore...ever with his "good" arm.

  • 0

    bobobolinski

    If there is one thing that annoys many Japanese people on trains more than people talking on the phone, it is people talking English. So all of you cheerleaders should bear in mind that it might be you that gets a thump in the face next time.

  • 0

    isthistheend

    No doubt about it, this place is losing its marbles. People have no money to spend, no playgrounds to play in, no room to play at home and alot of people just like them or worse all around them. It seems like it was 50 years ago, only now they have more bags to carry and a bit higher fashion to be pompous about.

    Talking on the train, in this case was probably an arrogant talking and laughing and not paying any attention to the social network of the train. Hello? That being said, today a woman was seated in front of me on the early a.m. train and cutting her finger nails, one by one. I could have screamed (but didn't). I got bagged from behind, and knocked in the shoulder, and kids were having a good ol time going to school and talking about this and that and on the way home alot of abec were horning all over each other, and just inches away from me. Can I utter a word of protest to any of this all day long. No. That's why when a fight breaks out it BREAKS OUT. People are at their wits end, I feel. And it ain't just Hatoyama's fault. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better. But the first and last rule in this country is DON'T FIGHT IN PUBLIC. Even I as a gaijin know that. When two natives come to blows, you can bet there's at least one wierdo and one close to being at his wit end involved. All the others, are just steaming and creating ulcers for themselves. Somewhere this society is going to blow even bigger. Mark my words.

  • 0

    ambrosia

    They are neither rules nor laws. They're guidlines. Check the back of your ticket or pass. Does it say anywhere that talking on one's phone is forbidden on the train? People who get so worked up about this are either just plain nuts or ultra-sensitive and should consider alternatives to PUBLIC transportation or invest in a damn pair of earplugs! Can it seriously be any worse than all the megaphones, shouting everytime you enter or leave a shop, sound trucks, hysterical high school kids, and so on and so on ad naseum? At least the guy on the phone was communicating with someone! The day someone takes a gun to the speakers on a rightwing black van will be the day I'll get on board with vigilantism. Until then this is just one obnoxious bully taking his frustrations out on someone he figured he could beat. Keep cheering this kind of hypocricy and one day it'll be you on the recieving end of someone's fist for breaking heaven knows what "rule"

  • 0

    Rico808

    There aren't any laws or rules regarding the use of cel phones on trains. However, when people fail to exercise common courtesy on a regular basis, this will be your result. Not to mention Japan's barrage of noise pollution and working conditions. It's only a matter of time. This guy's not nuts, he's just tired of it all. People have their cel phones out at every chance they get and it's honestly sickening. I've seen someone sending text messages during a funeral, and that alone deserves a punch in the face. Just because there isn't a law, doesn't mean it's okay to do it. The real bullies here are the jerks who think they can do as they like, because no one will complain. The perfect playground for this, Japan.

  • 0

    Speed

    Matsukawa had warned a fellow passenger to obey the mobile phone manner rules while the two were riding the train. The man reportedly talked back to him,...

    It wasn't just that the guy wouldn't stop using his cell, the guy was constantly talking smack back. He was probably being a real jerk and saying some insulting things. If some dude was cussing me out, just for asking him to follow the rules, I'd probably want to knock him out, too.

  • 0

    XXXXX

    heh, nice! setting an example of real good manners! retard

  • 0

    XXXXX

    do these people know how to talk??!

  • 0

    Tiresias

    People use mobile phones on trains in Ireland and Britain all the time bellowing out "I'm on the TRAIN" in nearly every conversation. It give gags to comedians, but no-one has talked about forbidding it. Considering the cachophony that is daily life in Japan -- announcements to mind your step leaving the train or bus; advertising of all kinds and right wing trucks, is has always seemed strange that phone conversations are taboo on public transport there. Sounds like the aggressor here was taking out other frustrations on his less than cooperative adversary who could have been killed.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Personally, I prefer people not talking on phones around me during my commute. Why, I use the time to relax and prepare me mentally for work, family, etc.

    Said that I don't mind if someone answers the phone when called and talks quietly.

    Guys and gals that annoy me that seem to hold a 20~30min convo chatting on the platform, than in the train, etc.

    Also many people do seem to get a bit carried away while they are on the phone, talking loud, making rude comments, talking like they are sitting in a noisy pub, etc.

    Many times I felt like punching a few people who gave me lip after asking them friendly to keep it down.

    Many Japanese get very offensive(in your face)/rude when they think you ask them to do things that they think is the norm for everyone. This is not helped by many Japanese never piping up about things they think are wrong.

    Just my view.

  • 0

    Livvie

    I understand that it is a guideline and a courtesy, but it isn't a hard rule. Even if the person is conversing unnecessarily, assaulting someone for talking on the phone is taking it too far. Once I had to translate for some friends who were in trouble and couldn't get on their shinkansen, I couldn't get off the train to help because I would have missed my own express train. I followed the other unspoken rule and stood in the corner of the doors to the train, cupped my hands over my mouth, spoke really quietly. I was speaking to the JR stationmaster at Shinagawa station and I still got berated by an old salaryman who wanted to make an example of me. I ended up hanging up the phone because he started to get violent, banging on the wall next to my head. I wasn't even on the phone for five minutes before I hung up on the stationmaster out of fear for my safety.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I think it is a case of 2 hotheads meeting at the wrong time. ;)

    Looks like one or both had a crappy day.

  • 0

    maxpower

    Good job! This guy should get a good samaritain award!

    He asked nicely, the other guy was rude, then the rude got what he asked for!

    Feel free to let loose on all those smokers in non-smoking places too.

    Some people are too arrogant and the need to be shown the light, or in this case the stars!

  • 0

    yanderei

    People talking or listening to music LOUDLY are just ANNOYING ANYWHERE in the world. I have seen many staff in the UK going to tell people to shut it because they are bothering the other passengers. There IS an etiqutte to using these god forsaken things, and being LOUD or shouting or talking back to someone who requests some peace, are NOT t way to go. I would have punched that retard too LOL

  • 0

    blvtzpk

    I'm curious as to when and why these 'cell phone manners' 'rules' started. Does anyone else know of a country that has rules specifically for cell phones on public transport? Most other train manner rules' (e.g. giving up the seat for elderly etc) are usually ignored, but this one is one where people take a righteous stand. I admit it can be quite annoying - some say it's because what you're exposed to a ones-sided conversation - you can't hear the other half, so you're left out of being able to follow the communication flow, and THAT in itself frustrates people. Do some people talk more loudly on a phone? Yes, they do, but others are ultra quiet. There's also the canard about the cell phones interfering with pacemakers, and that popular belief is enough to get the oldies voicing their concerns to you even when you're texting. In short, I sometimes think these 'rules' are excuses for allow others to inflate their egos and exercise self-importance (e.g. appropriate-recycling-sorting Little Hitlers). However, I think the 'a phone call must be answered immediately and overrides a face-to-face conversation in process' attitude in Japan plays a big part in this. I was on a fairly empty bus one day when an old salariman, sat in back row, got a call got from someone from a customer (or someone more important than him) and his speaking volume and keigo-ing was so outrageously annoying the bus driver made TWO announcements to get this fool to shut up. In short, I have mixed feelings about this 'special rule in Japan. I frankly don't mind it, but when I see so many other rules in life so fragrantly ignored, especially those involving dangerous behavior (e.g. breaking many driving laws) rather than regulating social niceties, I wonder where priorities lie.

  • 0

    bcbrownboy

    Is there anyone here who hasn't made or answered a cell phone call on the subway or train in Japan? I doubt it.

  • 0

    Goals0

    I never have. Don't have one.

  • 0

    isthistheend

    Again the point is not ONLY that he was talking on the cell phone, but that he was LOUDLY talking, (or so I imagine it), and when told to pipe down, told the guy to kiss off. And kept on talking. In th end I tend to agree with Zenny11 "I think it is a case of 2 hotheads meeting at the wrong time. ;)Looks like one or both had a crappy day."

    Well how many people are having good days these days? Thank goodness he didn't pull a knife and go beserk like is happening every month somewhere, at some level schools and towns etc. Its the dichotomy of the "manners vs. no manners", that throws me for a loop. But in the end, I guess ALL PEOPLE have the same merits and faults as all other people, and so it has been since time began.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Go to Hong Kong and ride a crowded train there. People talk on phones, they laugh, they interact. Sure Japan has lots of rules, but come on, no one dies if someone picks up a quick call on the phone outside the danger area.

    Mr. Enforcer is frustrated salaryman looking for a fight, period. He should have a long jail sentence for nearly killing a man over something so trivial.

    As for Japan and her rules. The longer I am here, the more I think people like to feel that life is taihen or kibishi. I call it "Gambarro Culture" where people just don't feel right unless lashed down by rules, stuck behind barriers and having to demonstrate to the world their capacity to endure and gambarro.

    Many of the rules I encounter here make no practical sense but exist largely because some pencil pushing dweeb felt like imposing a thought that would be seen as OCD anywhere else on the planet.

    What Japan needs is to lighten up before more of these tightly wound, rule bound and frustrated oyaji blow up in more dramatic and damaging ways.

    Lighten up people. Stop Gambarro Culture and opt for something a little less soul killing.

  • 0

    ursinegrubby

    In the late 90's I remember sitting in a moderately crowded Odakyu line train in the middle of the afternoon. Many if not all of the seated and standing passengers were directing their annoyed stares at one thirty-something guy chatting rather loudly on his cellphone standing next to the doorway. The train had just stopped and was about to leave the station when just the doors were closing, a guy in his early to mid fifties who had been trying to read his newspaper, quick as a flash moved quickly toward the guy, ripped the phone from his ear and with a baseball-type pitch threw it out the door before prompty returning to his seat to resume reading his newspaper. It was a classic movie-type moment. He even got a round of approving nods from various obasans seated up and down the aisles. The train moved off and the cell-yell guy was beside himself, didn't know what to do. I've never seen anything like it.

  • 0

    lovejapan21

    MOst people if they are having a conversation, it is usally louder in person than one that is taken place on a phone. this is especially true when high school girls/guys are chatting away...talking is talking..let it be on the phone or in person...

  • 0

    tkoind2

    News flash. People talk, communicate, make noise and sometimes fail to follow the tiny rules. Get over it.

    The guy in ursinegrubby's story is as much a jerk as the punching enforcer guy in this article. If you want to read your newspaper quietly stay at home genius and not on busy trains. This isn't the back steppes of Siberia where only ten people live. This is Japan where every little corner is crowded in the cities.

    Sometimes I think the entire culture was founded by one very sick obsessive compulsive who wrote a long list of rules and details that exceed other country's rule books by tens of thousands of volumes.

    And what is the result? A society that has severe alcohol problems, growing instances of people snapping and harming others, legions of chain smokers trying to quell their stress and so many other socially imposed dysfunctions that an army of clinical social workers could spend the entirety of their lives just trying to list them.

    Japan seriously needs to find ways to make life less kibishi and taihen and start solving real problems and having better human interactions.

  • 0

    Nessie

    It's terrible to see someone punched for having manners. Or did they mean lack of manners?

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Zenny11. Hardly and apple and apple comparisson now is it?

    I am not actually saying that people should use phones on the train. What I am saying is that no individual has the right to forcefully enforce that courtesy.

    Every day I see someone on a phone on the train. Usually shielding their sound with a hand. And I guess in most cases taking a call that can't wait. Does this harm anyone if outside the designated danger areas? No! Does it warrant an attack by some self important twit? Absolutely not!

  • 0

    Zenny11

    But we DON'T know if the guy shielded his conversation or not.

    Hence why I found your posts rather anti-japanese(as are many of yours) as you jumped to a conclussion based on data that don't support it.

    Sorry, but I have seen you do the same many times on threads.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Zenny11. Why is it that anyone who is critical of Japan and aspects of Japanese culture are labeled "anti-Japanese". This is absurd. I care about this place and the problems here. Thus I am sometimes quite hard on Japan. If I was "anti-Japanese" I would give up and go somewhere else.

    You may note that I am equally critical of my home country and some of the problems there. Do read some of my posts on non-Japanese related topics.

    We can only improve things when we are open to being critical of and accepting of very real problems. Japan has some very serious social problems that are starting to manifest in violence, rampant alcoholism, abuse of children and economic meltdown. Denial won't make these problems go away. Neither will apologizing for the rationales used in Japan to sweep them under the rug. Japan needs to address these problems and that requires recognizing and accepting them first.

    As for lacking data. Can you show me data that supports vigilanti behavior over a simple phone call? Sure we don't know if this one individual was shielding or not. But in my own observations I have seen shielding behavior hundreds of times more than someone just opening chatting. What other evidence do you require? Shall I initiate a study to satisfy your data requirements?

  • 0

    genji17

    Feel free to let loose on all those smokers in non-smoking places too. Some people are too arrogant and the need to be shown the light, or in this case the stars!

    Cant wait to see someone try it on me! Good mentality...what are you all 5 years old? You dont like the way somebody acts so you hit them? Grow up.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    I will require some funding for the study by the way. Furikomi is fine.

    Moderator: Back on topic please.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Tkoind2.

    I agree most of the times you got valid arguments at others you do tend to come on very strong. And you often tend to talk down to people you think disagree with you, not an attack just an observation.

    I learned a ling time ago, no matter what my opinion us there is nothing I/We can do that will change things. Especially by posting them on JT.

    Myself I like to do my own little bit to further understanding with locals by dialogue bit also by observing and understanding and learning about local culture.

    I DON'T want Japan to turn into a clone of my home-countries culture, views, ideologies, etc.

    Japan is my current home and I do appreciate and like their different ways of dealing with things.

    Jut my view.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Zenny11. I too want Japan to remain Japan. But if you go back and talk to the generation who are now in their mid 60's, the Japan we know today is not really Japan. Most of what we see are leftovers from the bubble era. And it is largely those issues that are to blame for the problems in Japan. We write far too much off as culture, when older Japanese will tell you that things were not like this before the 70's and 80's. We have to separate the problems from the culture. I don't believe they are one in the same.

    I disagree that we cannot change things by voicing our opinions. Even here on our lowly local site. I subscribe to the seed planting methodology of change. Every time we open someone to a new perspective we change things. Little by little that can have an effect.

    I know many Japanese here who have lived abroad and been able to come back with a new point of view. Most come back more in love with Japan, but equally more critical of how things are going here. This is powerful and will eventually help change things.

    We agree about Japan as our home. I love many, many aspects of Japan. And I feel far more safe and secure here than in my home country. My life is here. But that is why I also worry so much about disturbing trends and problems that may spell long term hardship for this country and her people. We owe it to our loved ones here to try our best to influence change in our own small ways. As we also owe it o ourselves to learn and absorb all the wonderful things about Japan. We can't be apologists as long term residents without doing all concerned a disservice.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    One other thought. One person can truly change things. We have seen in again and again in history. I hope you don't really believe you can't change things, because you are already changing things by simply existing here. Even if the changes are small.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Tkoind2.

    Looks like we are mostly in agreement.

  • 0

    Monoflow

    It's true... phone manners often don't exist. Of course i use one, but usually turn it off, as soon as i am in places, where people can be disturbed. It has something to do with respect other people, not using it, unless it's necessary... And no, i don't live in Japan, i'm european and get used to the bad behaviours here...

  • 0

    Eddisofbextar

    Couple days ago I was minding my own business studying kanji on the way home as i always do. I happened to get the corner seat next to the middle doors where the rail is about my shoulder height sitting. A teenish or early 20's male yout was standing on the other side of the rail. Didnt notice what he was doing till i decided to stretch my neck a bit and noticed his elbow was 3 cm from the side of my head. Not on par with people who dont respect train riding rules such as this story, but I did give his elbow a good full palm shove and gave him a "dont f with me" look (which is actually pretty much my normal train-riding face as trains here are oh so much fun). Problem solved, no broken bones or fatalities.

    Another instance was a teen schoolgirl and boy (16ish?) came onto the train. The girl apparently saw one of her friends going the opposite direction just as the train door closed. she got all excited and started bouncing and yelling. Told her "urusai" in a loud enough voice for all to hear on the train car i was in. She apparently didnt hear me, so I commented perhaps she would understand japanese more her level. I slowly pronounced the derogatory version syllable by syllable U-ZA-II. She brushed it off of course with an "aa sou". I stood up and went over to the guy with her and informed him that it's fine to play with such a rude and un-cultured girl but when you get older the odds of being happy with this type of girl are very small, and that he should try again to find a more gentle girl. The guy was ashen-faced, the girl didnt make a peep after that, and the people around me were either staring with a smile at me, or so shocked at the confrontation that they made a point to not look in my direction. One salary man who was sitting beside me laughed and said good job. heh.

    long story short, the train rules are there for a reason. This article is a good example of why.

    If it was me in the situation, I would have just turned on my pocketpc phone and cranked up the volume to max playing koda kumi while standing right beside the dude. Guaranteed he wouldnt be able to hear a thing on his phone. Then, when he gives up I would ask him how did he like it.

  • 0

    bdiego

    Better to have bad manners than be violent to strangers - especially in this case he nearly murdered him with the incoming train.

  • 0

    bdiego

    Eddis, congratulations for being rude to rude people.

  • 0

    DamoSuzuki

    The Ides of June. That time of year again. One feels the need to lash out.

    I stopped riding trains years ago. Surprised we don't read about train violence more often than we do.

    Train Train Hashite Yuke.. Train Train Doco Made Moooooooooooo!

  • 0

    tkoind2

    A polite don't hit me in the head, a gentle push if someone is hitting you with his or her newspaper, bag or whatever is fine. A don't F with me look solves most of the more difficult problems.

    But let's stop there friends.

    The last thing Tokyo or any other city needs are people becoming a band of rabid vigilantes enforcing minor courtesy rules. These are not laws people, they are simple gentilities meant to make the train riding experience a little less from hell. You DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to go around acting like batman taking things into your own hands.

    This is not Batan and no you can't summarily execute someone for talking on a phone. Teens are teens, they are supposed to be noisey. If they are not, they may snap and take out their whole family one day.

    Lighten up people!!! I mean really if you had human sounds and movement so much, hire a car to take you around Tokyo. Trains are noisey public places with all the sweat, stench, obnoxious behavior and gasious perfumes of any other public place. Get over it and take a vallium if you need one to get through your commute.

    I hate a lot of what happens on trains too. Especially the mine fields of vomit on weekends. But bottom line is I choose to ride trains because I want to live a little more green life and I hate traffic. So my choice and I have to endure the fact that humans are noisey, stinky, difficult and sweaty creatures and packing us into trains makes things not so pleasant. But I get from A to B and get on with life without having to engage anyone in battle. You should try the same. You can achieve a lot with a simple gentle nudge or polite request.

  • 0

    genji17

    Wow...Eddis congrats on being a giant DB. Since when did you all become the manner police?
    Theres a lot of stangers that irk me...who I am to tell them off, punch them, or kill them?

    Yall got some serious issues. Did you all stop learing after 1st grade?

    GROW UP

  • 0

    benhur

    meloveulongtime at 09:07 AM JST - 15th June

    what an idiot...try this with me Hiroshi and the result will be much different. I hate these social police...what an idiot!!!

    oh yeah.. if your phone manners were just as bad, come here and let ME do the "trying".

  • 0

    JA_Cruise

    hats off to tkoind2!! There are certainly better ways to inform people that you are bugging them rather than being the aggressive enforcer. If you continue to be the enforcer of these rules, you better also be prepared on occasion to get your face punched in. I don't think they would do this in the U.S., like NY cause it would turn into a rumble.

  • 0

    genji17

    Just a lot of people throwing their internet weight around here.

    Well newsflash for everyone, my dad can beat up your dad. So be careful.

  • 0

    Mikanojo

    In real simple terms.. 1 man on the train was using their keitai.. that is all we know - it does not say he was loud, or annoying others. Another man on the same train at the time told him to stop using his keitai, words were exchanged, ego was bruised and at the next station the bully who had tried unsuccessfully to force the keitai user to stop with his voice, decided to try using his fist instead. Then when security becomes involved (because the assault was the ONLY actual crime committed here - think about that a moment)then the attacker tried to use train-line etiquette as an excuse for acting like a bully 12yr-old-boy on the playground.

  • 0

    blunderbuss

    Personally I think this story should be rewritten to reflect the fact that a fight nearly resulted in a man being pushed against an oncoming train. It should go from

    Man punched in face by fellow train commuter over phone manners

    to

    Irate commuter nearly pushes blowhard in front of Shinkansen

    ...or something that the NYPost would write.

  • 0

    krisallenation

    Sarge at 05:56 PM JST - 15th June "I am forever struggling to see the difference between having a conversation with someone on a train or a bus, and having a conversation on the phone" EXACTLY!

  • 0

    Eddisofbextar

    I've never been one to just sit by while my personal space is being abused. If that means I am labeled a DB by some uptight ppl so be it, their opinion matters not.

    The reaction of the croud around me at the time shows that others were thinking the same thing as I was but were culture bound not to react.

    Who knows, perhaps I saved lives by acting in a non-violent manner when if I had done nothing and taken it like a good ant perhaps it would have turned out like the original post by one of the people around me.

    Being polite to rude people will get us where? Waste of air, my time is far too valuable. 2 wrongs and such, but in this case its a simple matter of communicating on a level that the person in question will understand.

  • 0

    Sarge

    kris - Your post makes it sound as if I said "I am forever struggling to see the difference between having a conversation with someone on a train or a bus, and having conversation on the phone." That was what komachi0jim said, and I quoted. You should have quoted the last part of my post.

  • 0

    irishosaru

    The next time I see rude people chastising other rude people for being rude I'm going to rudely punch them in the face.

  • 0

    genji17

    my personal space is being abused

    Really? Walk by Yamada denki..thats noise assualt.

    Somebody on the phone on a train? Golly...what a crime.
    Eddis, careful when assaulting people, especially other foreingers on trains. If my boss or family calls, I will answer where ever I am at. Touch me, push me, or blare that dumb azz koda kumi crap your bragged about, Ill remind you of why otaku came to japan in the first place. They cant get girls or win a fight.

  • 0

    Eddisofbextar

    Yamada denki... etc etc... too many to list.

    genji17, if you start your conversation with something similar to "i am on the train" and its clear that the conversation is not an emergency I doubt you need to fear anyone's "assault". Speaking of which, playing music to drown out other sound isnt assault. If anything inappropriate physical-wise happens I wont be the instigator. Not sure where all this Touch me, push me came from. Otaku? Because I have Koda Kumi music on my phone makes me an Otaku? I could switch to Mozart, (i'm particularily fond of piano sonata 11, or perhaps some beasty boys) if you'd like. Sorry, is that what you mean? If so...

    As for get girls, when i come home each night I have the pleasure of playing with my baby boy and wife.

    It's honestly been a while since i've had to swing the ol' puncher, in fact, the last time was before i moved to japan almost 10 years ago. Good times. But your basing off of actions that I never mentioned doing/planning to do in previous posts, so the relevance of fighting skill is pointless. Came close a few years back tho, dude was clearly psychotic. Had to pick him up by the neck as he just suddenly grabbed me by my jacket and wouldnt let go. Threw him down and held him there till the jsatsu arrived (at my home station). Useless station people just stood there in a semicircle doing nothing to help. Made me late for work too. I was tempted, but decided not to beat him senseless as it was already all on video with over 100 witnesses.

    The physical contact of pushing someones elbow away from your head with only sufficient force to move that persons arm mass would not constitute assault. If I shoved him on his backside, that would be a different matter.

    Anyways, do unto others and such. You talk on the phone in the train in blatant disregard for cultural accepted norms? dont be surprised if someone does something about it. Dont like it? Go home.

  • 0

    Mikanojo

    Talking on your keitai in the train is NOT blatant disregard for cultural accepted norms. Being loud or disruptive IS, and that means in ANY public place, not only the train. As far as accepted cultural norms.. most people do not speak on the trains AT ALL unless there is need and you are with someone that you know. The person talking on the keitai did NOT break any rule or law. The person who told him to stop using his keitai was not within his rights to do that, and the complaint back at him was no more or less justified. Then at the station that same man who tried to make the other man stop using his fone PHYSICALLY ATTACKED the keitai user, (which gives proof of his being the bully, unable to control himself) and by doing so nearly caused the man's DEATH by punching him so that he fell into the side of an oncoming train! In all of this, the ONLY person who showed disregard for cultural norms, broke the law, violated the rights of others, (and the only person arrested) was the man who hit the keitai user.

  • 0

    supernatural

    I have never understood how talking on the phone is different to talking to a physical passenger, either. Talking is talking, and trains are never quiet by their very nature. They're also public spaces. So how is talking, being perfectly accepted on the street, not 'alright', while throwing up, farting, and smelling like pee are above reproach?

    Those who have a problem with talking in a public space- get over it. Sorry, but you have no legs to stand on.

  • 0

    Eddisofbextar

    Mikanojo, if you read the Japanese versions of this same story you'll see that the phone talker was speaking fairly loudly... not that that condones such a reaction.

    Supernatural, I have given this quite a bit of thought. Basically it boils down to WA. If everyone else is being silent, or talking quietly - then everyone else should too. So basically, dont expect quiet trains friday evenings, but most weekday mornings its like a tomb.

  • 0

    sageb1

    i think i should stop using bluetooth, and let people hear both sides of my phone conversations instead. that way, they don't get weirded out by me appearing to be talking to myself!

    IMHO the self appointed phone police caused the man who he punched to get a broken arm. This is proof that he wasn't so much objecting to the guy on his cell phone as to NOT being privy to the other side of the phone call.

    If a cell phone user thinks his call on a bus or train is private, then he is sorely mistaken since people can hear only his side.

  • 1

    gogogo

    Moron, talking on the phone is fine on the train in Japan if you want to be rude, punching someone in the face is breaking the law.

  • 0

    isthistheend

    Rude manners on the train? Nahhhhh never happens. "I thought I thaw a puddy tat."

  • 0

    ensnaturae2

    The article appears loaded in favour of the reactions of the puncher against the phoner, in 'blaming' the phoner for the puncher's 'anger'. even if preceded by 'reportedly'. so I agree with Blunderbuss.

    Both men sound soooo unattractive, & I hope I never find myself in a train compartment, or related in any way, to either one, until each discovers how to be more civilized. The disgusting noises from ringing phones is good reason to put them all in a skip, even if no one talks on them at all.

    My own observation tells me that trains in Japan, are sleeping/meditating spaces, & all talk/conversation, that anyone beyond a close travelling companion can hear, may be quite violently opposed.

  • 0

    Eddisofbextar

    ensnaturae2 its just a boiling point for the social problems here... the fact that there are train rule manners at all indicates the problem is well known. Might see people start doing this to smokers who walk and smoke at some point too. Maybe Punch-boy had an exceptionally bad day and all it took was the dude talking in such a manner as to set him off.

    It's pretty much the same as how genji17 reacts to it, he will ignore social norms when it doesnt suit him, and resort to assault if someone turns around and does the same thing he is doing (going against the norm by playing music loud enough to disrupt his phone conversation). You are surrounded by psychopaths on a short fuse here, or anywhere pretty much. Since there will never be an end to fresh off the boat people, or those who just dont respect others around then the only thing you can do is watch out for yourself and get clear when genji17 decides your a non-girl-getting-otaku and starts swinging =)

  • 0

    fussagaijin

    Man up son...

  • 0

    yasukuni

    2010 and people are punching people because of a phone in a train? How about some common sense. First, I could have a phone conversation on a train and make less noise than two ojisan, obasan or young people having a normal conversation. But because it is supposedly bad manners, I don't do it. But it should be okay - there are many times when answering a phone makes a big difference in life.

    But shouldn't we be able to solve something like loud phone users on a train without punching people?

  • 0

    genji17

    Sure Eddis...lets look at the facts.

    The train asks that you Please REFRAIN from using your cell phones on the train. It does say it is illegal to talk on your phone.

    So lets go one step further. I get a phone call, and take it. You dislike it so walk over to me and yell URUSAI or whatever. I tell you to go pound sand. You assault me, push my hand away from my ear, whatever.
    Guess what you just committed the crime. End of discussion. So lose the tommy toughguy before you take things to far.

    Thats all. Dont konw where you decided to turn it around on me. Assualt me and ill stand up for myself. Ask me politley, then Ill probably listen. Do unto others pal.

  • 0

    ensnaturae2

    Eddisofbextar wrote; You are surrounded by psychopaths on a short fuse here, or anywhere pretty much. Since there will never be an end to fresh off the boat people, or those who just dont respect others around then the only thing you can do is watch out for yourself and get clear when genji17 decides your a non-girl-getting-otaku and starts swinging =)

    mmmm, I havnt ever yet, had the feeling that we are overwhelmed, - but you could be right about getting clear, I think its always a good idea to stay aware of group-aggression frissons, and be prepared to have pressing business elsewhere when wires seem to get too hot. Appearing to be interested in any way at all - may effectively place your allegiance quite wrongly, on one side or the other.

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