Ex-sex slave, supporters demand justice from Japan

A major historical tragedy that's not taken too seriously here. Quite sad...

60 years ago, human beings were barbarious and the most barbarious act was dropping of atomic bombs on regular citizens in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People of the world do not blame America for that while Japan is constantly accused for lesser evils in the past.

These brave women have to live with the horror for the rest of their violated lives.

how sad. i hope nothing like that ever happens again but, we do live in an imperfect world so i can only imagine where else that kind of treatment is occurring. i will be praying for those victims.

I feel sorry for the lola (grandma).

How could she have been rescued by American troops on Negros when the liberation of the island started with the battle of Visayas in March/April 1945?

@Shankun, a very good observation! I'm from the Phils. I really do believe there were rapes and killing of the innocent in cohorts of some locals back then. But that 's the ugly facet of war. And it might be happening right now too, somewhere. Remember in recent times the prosti Pinay girl who cried rape against the American soldier just to bilk the man and the US for that matter. The Phil feminist group joined the case and made a louder noise and just to add credence to the story. It's a story of using something to gain something to add spice to the drama. Very sad to the old woman's relatives who could be living and working decently and who never wanted to be drag into this drama.

Sorry girl yoi wont receive any money 70 years later. If Japan gives you any compensation, many more old poor grandmas will start tp say that they were raped too

It is tragic that victims like this have to endure their pain and then people deny their stories. Japan as a whole has terrible karma brought upon by the deeds of their forefathers. The earlier they repent, the lesser the bad karma!

Absolutely tragic story - as are all these testimonies of the "comfort children" and "comfort women". Full respect to this poor lady - none of us will ever understand the horrors they endured at the hands of inhuman savages - but if their story reaches just a few young people in Japan, it is well worth telling. Shame on Abe and his regime for trying to whitewash what their relatives did.

And this is why Japan will never get respect in Asia, gutless denial of historical facts and Abe is the prince of gutless politicians. Japan is the only modern democracy that is surrounded by distrustful neighbors. Money can't buy class, only character.

A sad thing, and Japan could do more. But Japan can never do enough to please the people who won't stop playing victim over WWII...it's just a part of Asian culture to enjoy pretending they were the only country ever to be invaded, ever.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has backpedaled from Tokyos past apologies, saying theres no proof Japans wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army.

What about all of the women who have come forward? Do they really believe this is just a huge conspiracy to make Japan look bad?

This was a real tradegy, but, unfortunately this has happened throughout history and is happening as this is being written. Humans are a tragic creation and will continue to do horrible things.

where she was repeatedly raped for three weeks until American troops rescued her."

I have to assume that a US Army Report must exist in the archives of this incident.

As for Kim Hak-Soon, an investigation conducted in South Korea by Professor Ahn Byong-Jik concluded that her testimony was unreliable.

I was talking to some students of mine here in Japan, and they said, "oh there's no proof, so it didn't happen." I seriously wanted to jump across table and beat the living crap out of them but I didn't. Ignorance is ignorance and people who don't want to learn anything different will never do so. the Japanese government denies it ever happened and says if there's no proof. I say malarkey!

kiyoshiMukai - She is not after compensation. Only recognition and for Japan to admit and to atone for their injustices. When you have Abe, Hashimoto and Ishihara downplaying and even denying these events ever happened there is no surprise these victims want to be recognised.

and coerced into sex slavery

Coerced? Shouldn't that be 'forced'? Ah, Japanese media editing!

Here we go again with the denials... even going as far as calling them liars... seriously.

There is the story of a 'comfort male' - Walterina Markova.

As for Kim Hak-Soon, an investigation conducted in South Korea by Professor Ahn Byong-Jik concluded that her testimony was unreliable. but not untrue as for the Japanese government before Abe Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono offered an apology on behalf of the government, saying, "Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women but now Shinzo Abe and his revisionist mates want evidence. Ossan you as well?

@OssanAmerica

Whether or not her testimony is unreliable is beside the point. During the trial a Japanese judge stated the Japanese government at that time had an obligation to protect comfort women and admitted that they had suffered maltreatment. The compensation was dismissed because the court determined that right to demand it had already expired. This court ruling verifies her claims. Not to mention former Japanese PM's have also publicly acknowledged that Japan used comfort women.

Japanese people should not be denying that the comfort women ever existed.

Japanese people should not be saying that they have apologized (so that they don't have to apologize again. Would you call that a real apology?).

Japanese people are also knowing for lying about WW atrocities, nuclear disaster, etc.

Letter of Prime Minister of Japan sent to each of the former comfort women

http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/statement-12.html

The Year of 1996

Dear Madam,

On the occasion that the Asian Women's Fund, in cooperation with the Government and the people of Japan, offers atonement from the Japanese people to the former wartime comfort women, I wish to express my personal* feelings as well.

The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women.

As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

Eiji Takano - not ALL Japanese people deny this it lie. You should not generalize the whole population. Just stick with the Japanese government and 'some' historians.

Japan does not want to and will not deal with this appalling disgusting issue as it doesn't fit in with the "Victim Japan" image they have so carefully tried to craft.

CH3CHO: "As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women."

But isn't this the same apology Abe wants rescinded? I mean, forget for a second that he and many others in Japan have tried to repeatedly deny there were sex slaves. Forget for a minute that people like Ossan and other posters, who represent a pretty common mentality in Japan, blame it all on South Korean prostitutes when they finally have to admit what happened. Forget for a bit that a whole heap of people who were never born at the time and are forced to read white-washed textbooks pretend to know more about the events before they were born than the people who lived them. Just tell us: the letter you quoted is the exact thing Abe wants to retract, correct?

not ALL Japanese people deny this it lie. You should not generalize the whole population. Just stick with the Japanese government and 'some' historians.

Just the people who set what history is taught, so how can the populace agree with facts they are never told about?

Spudman.

You make it sound like that info is banned and available to the average Joe. Do people in your country believe the version of history they are taught?

No proofs? Will crooks videotape any wrongdoings? Will liars admit the crimes they committed? Pathetic.

Should be unavailable.

imperial army are bad.

This is a major point why our neighbours need to be careful should they tollerate Japan's military expansion, cause one day, histroy will repeat itself.

There might be two different issues here. The article said The first victim of Japanese sex slavery came forward on Aug. 14, 1991,I believe this is the story of Kim gaku jyun. I remember her because she was on the 9 pm NHK news then. If she is the one, the sentence of this article should indicate more accurately as she was the first comfort woman came forward. She was not a slave. She was saying that she was sold just for 40 yen by her parents because of their lone to a kisaeng (Brothel) owned by Korean civilian. I was sad to hear that story but some how today the story has been changed. Even Kim's case, she was forcefully taken by Japan. I do not have enough information of Estelita Dy, so I can not say about her case. But it what she is saying is true, this is a crime even during a war then. Japan must work it out to resolve this sad case with Japan's best.

My point is if every individual case makes it under the category as a sex slave, it will produce more problems. The fact is that there were many professional women who worked at brothels for money which average income was 300 Yen monthly and 1 Yen tip while middle class solder's salary was only 7 Yen era. It was a legal system till 1958 in Japan as well as Korea. That was a different world then. Especially the new evidences were just found recently as many dairies in Korean language of those workers, but still called a sex salve today in English papers. The diaries show the reality the life of them which is difficult to admit that they were slaves. This finding also subjectively support the U.S. Army 1944 report No49 which state they are as professional women.

I am not saying good or bad any moral issue here. Personally I do not like the system. I am afraid of some possible individual rape crime like Estelita case, and the controversial Korean Monuments in USA which states as if it were a historical fact as''over 200,000 Korean women were raped and abducted then forcefully Japan made them as sex slaves'' is completely different issue. Because of the enough evidences I can comfortably deny the story on the monuments. However, if the case of Estelita Dy is mixed with other Korean's claim cases, it is not a good idea for sake of Estelita.

So far, Japan found with clear evidences and admitted officially is some case in Indonesia. The Army solders got involved crime and he received a capital punishment by Japanese government during WW2.

Because of the request from Korean Government in 1993 to extinguish the fire for the both side after the fake non- fiction book by Seiji Yoshida and irresponsible article of Asahi News paper by Takashi Uemura produced chaos, Japan did research and Korea did, too. Japan found the case in Indonesia but Korea found no objective evidences. Mr. Ahn byung jik PHD at Seoul University and his team did research for the case as well as many interviews for ex comfort women were held but they could not find any single indications which identified those women's subjective claims. Also, 3 people were arrested in Korea who got involve this lawsuit situation against Japan for the sex slavery issue by some fraud charge. In this sensitive circumstance, Mr. Kono released to the famous Kono's apology speech which said some Japanese military's direct involvement existed at the foreign press club in Tokyo. What that meant was the case of Indonesia without saying the name of country in the official speech part at that time, only Japan orally explained to foreign correspondents to protect the pride the ex-comfort women who were standing up then in Korea.

There was a tacit understanding between Korea and Japan in 1993. Korea said that as long as the statement which keeps the pride of those women, it would not be the issue between two countries any more. This would be the final. I know this because I heard these details from a journalist who heard this from Kono's people who were in the room. Unfortunately, the controversial monuments are being erected in America now, this kind of information is being discussed now, finding out the lobbying movement of Korea mainly in the US but other parts of the world as well started in 1994 and Kono Speech has been used to sound as if Japan it self committed this disgraceful crime.

Therefore my suggestion is the media must distinguish this kind of particular case and today's general controversial Sex Salve issue of Japan. If Estelita is a real rape victim, Japan must do the best for her suffering. If the media throw the situation into this messy situation, it is not going to be her advantage. I know the most Japanese will support her if this case is treated as it is separated from others.

"not ALL Japanese people deny this it lie. You should not generalize the whole population. Just stick with the Japanese government and 'some' historians. "

Certainly not people like Chamkun, once again blaming it all on the victims.

Chamkun: " I know the most Japanese will support her if this case is treated as it is separated from others."

Yeah, of the very, very few that heard of it, 99% would look down at the ground if asked to comment. The rest of the population would remain blissfully head in sand, save people like yourself -- who would push to have it all forgotten.

"Therefore my suggestion is the media must distinguish this kind of particular case and today's general controversial Sex Salve issue of Japan. "

Yeah, let's just forget all about these atrocities and slaughters that 'never happened' anyway, right? Then it's off to Nagasaki to commemorate the dead, or off to the family grave to remember.

The Filipinos lost a lot of credibility with the Japanese government when they were being paid to repatriate bones of Japanese soldiers lost in the Philippines, and they started digging up bones of their own tribespeople and passing them off as Japanese. They were caught by DNA testing - reported in 2011. Locals claim that more than 2,000 of their own graves were dug up and bones taken in order to obtain fees, including women and childrens' skeletons, unlikely to have been in the Japanese army. Around 12,000 remains are currently under suspicion, the payments for bones system has been abolished, and only information will be collected.

Its all about money. WE all need it

smithinjapanAug. 12, 2013 - 12:01PM JST

CH3CHO: "As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women."

But isn't this the same apology Abe wants rescinded?

Abe wants to revise a different statement, in which factual errors were found. Abe repeatedly expressed that he has no intention to deny comfort women or rescind the apology.

It is so absurd to see western media bark at the words he did not say. What is more absurd is that he is promoted to a man who is punished for no sin, by some of the right wingers. Thay is worrysome for me.

its funny anytime i read about sex slavery, its bound to be the #1 commented topic on this site.

ohayo: "its funny anytime i read about sex slavery, its bound to be the #1 commented topic on this site."

What's sad is that you have to read about it so much. Imagine if the Japanese government stopped trying to deny what happened, the people the government has brainwashed stop blaming the victims, and honest apologies were made. You'd read about it a whole lot less. At least, you'd hear about the bad parts less.

Sadly the Japanese government will NOT admit to this poor woman, and all the women, who suffered because their excuse is that there is no "proof".

Of course there is no "proof" they burned it all to cover their arses!

smithinjapan

You miss my point. I am trying to support this kind of individual possible case. I am not denying everything. I only deny strongly the statement on the monuments were erected which statement is basically saying more than 200,000 Korean women were raped and abducted by Japanese solders then make them as sex slaves by Japanese government. I must say this statement on the monuments, based on the objective evidences, is false accusation.

Even the first woman Kim who came forward on Aug 1991 who did not say she was abducted or forcefully Japan made her as a slave, she only said she was sold by her parents for Korean business.It is also in her written testimony.That is a very sad situation. But today, she has become a sex slave status. In short,while this controversy is going for the monuments, I do not want Dy as categorized as the same sex slave category for her sake but may be better to be called a rape victim. If you read what I said more carefully, you will see it.

Of course if you argue that solders buy a sex service it self is making them as if the were a slave even though they were hired and quite substantial numbers of women applied as a job for high salary. I can not arguer with your idea. I do not like the sex industry. Some case it could be a crime for the humanity even the law then permitted. The bottom line is buying another human it self is wrong. Very wrong. But we are talking about in different era,parents sold their daughter was sadly happening. Yes it is a tragedy.

By the way, I was not a denier first. I was angry for what I thought we did for a while after I read a fake non fiction book by Seiji Yoshida in 1983, for the last 30 years, I have been studying the case then even learning English to seek more data with broader point of view, I found more contradiction in a logic with objective evidences to give a big question mark on the statement of the monument.

Joselito Asi No proofs? Will crooks videotape any wrongdoings? Will liars admit the crimes they committed? Pathetic.*

Which videotape are you talking about? If any video to show what Japan is denying can be proved as a fact and Japan is wrong, I will be the one to support Korea's saying and protect the monuments. I am not saying this sarcastically.

Report of the Investigaton by US Army Forces carried out in 1944.

http://texas-daddy.com/comfortwomen.html

Also,

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/24_S4.pdf#search='GHQ+report+comformt+women'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj2bLWQ-vis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj2bLWQ-vis

CH3CHO: "It is so absurd to see western media bark at the words he did not say."

Classic! So you're saying Abe never said the Imperial Army went to brothels? He's never taken out sex slaves or forced suicides from the history books in his attempts to create a 'beautiful Japan'? Abe's not trying to do what grandpappy Kishi could not by changing the constitution? Never said he was speaking to 'President Bush' after a phone call to Obama? That he disagreed with the Allied tribunal that found the 14 war ciminals -- enshrined in Yasukuni -- guilty of said war crimes (like grandpappy!)? That he said the "definition of aggression has yet to be defined"? Those are but a few of the many, many examples of this man constantly putting his foot in his mouth. What's actually absurd is to see the apologists say "He was misunderstood", and then retract what was said as though it never WERE said. THAT is absurd. That and the fact that Abe WAS going to retract the apology but decided not to after going into damage control mode over international (most noticeably US) criticism.

So yeah, now he's not going to rescind it.... just make it more 'pro-Japan', right?

"What is more absurd is that he is promoted to a man who is punished for no sin,"

Well, you're right he definitely has a lot of sins to be punished for that he has not.

As terrible as these acts against women were, I don't think insulting the current population of Japan will do any good. Why should people born in the post war years up to the present be made to feel guilty for acts carried out by the Imperial Army?

Those of you with Japanese partners and have children from marriages to Japanese people... do you want them to feel guilty for what happened in the war? I know that I don't want my Japanese friends and loved ones to feel guilt.

Thunderbird: "Why should people born in the post war years up to the present be made to feel guilty for acts carried out by the Imperial Army?"

Not everyone should, by any means, but those in positions of power more than anyone should when they deny the facts and spit on the victims (while claiming to be victims -- and Abe does this). Should they be punished for the white-washing of facts by other Japanese, the denials by other Japanese that it happened, etc.? No, so long as they are open to learning about it and not deny it happened because it wasn't what the Ministry of Ed. taught them. The issue should be put back in the textbooks, same as the forced suicides in Okinawa. But you'll never see that happen with apologists in power.

Chamkun: "Of course if you argue that solders buy a sex service it self is making them as if the were a slave even though they were hired and quite substantial numbers of women applied as a job for high salary."

Yeah, I 'misunderstood' your point -- that Korean women were all prostitutes who got a 'high salary', everyone else who is not Korean should ask that this quietly be dealt with by the Japanese government so you don't have to hear about it, and the issue should be buried. Is that a little more adequate?

"By the way, I was not a denier first."

But you are now.

Smith, this is what I said.

Abe wants to revise a different statement, in which factual errors were found. Abe repeatedly expressed that he has no intention to deny comfort women or rescind the apology.

It is so absurd to see western media bark at the words he did not say.

This is what you said.

CH3CHO: "It is so absurd to see western media bark at the words he did not say."

Classic! So you're saying Abe never said the Imperial Army went to brothels?

Shame on you, Smith. Did I say so?

"comfort women" sad but true.. this really did happen!! I'm a Filipino living & working here in Japan.. My great grandfather is a japanese, but he was an engineer not a soldier,he married my great grandma before the Japanese soldiers invaded the Philippines..we're lucky I guess!!as stories from my great grandma and relatives.. he died a Filipino at heart!! not the same stories from other filipino Nikkei-Jin here in Japan.. ask around if you knew one.. they'll tell you about their great grandmothers stories!! but that was WW2.. today we co-exist with every Japanese here in Japan.. but it won't hurt for the dark past of war to be acknowledge that it did happen!! don't you think so??

Smith,

I understand the passion and you make some reveleant points. But maybe you should ease up and not make it so personal with those who have a different opinion. Chakun is just offering a different viewpoint and didn't attack your character in anyway.

Chamkun

Your logic is flawed. Even if Kim was sold by her parents doesn't justify the Imperial Japanese government of holding her against her will and forcing hundreds of Japanese solders of raping her each day. Selling her and the Imperial Government buying her and forcing her into sexual slavery, both parties are guilty. U cannot justify the Japanese governments actions because of what her parent did or did not do

The current Japanese leaders and some Japanese tried to justify or deny the fact by claiming there is or was no evidence. What about the thousands of Japanese soldiers who testified that the imperial Army forced women into sexual slavery or most recently several WWII Japanese solders who confessed. You cannot continue to deny history then expect the world to respect you.

past ministers may have apologized for these war crimes...

but as long as new ministers backpedal through them, the argument that jpn has done 'enough' becomes moot

CH3CHO: "Shame on you, Smith. Did I say so?"

You said it's absurd that Western media barks at Abe for things he didn't say, so I asked you if you deny things he said that the 'Western media has barked at'.

Readers, please stop bickering.

YOu know, as much i don't ever agree with what happened in the past, and i'm not under mining how many woman were raped, its interesting to note that its only China and Korea that keep bringing this up over and over. The issue was resolved, its not Japans fault if there own Govt didnt pass on the money.

Seriously, on a note, lets compare what Russia did to Germany, even though 200,000 is a lot, there were reported millions on just the German or Russion sides. Skorea and China just like to bring things back up, to remind everyone how bad japan was...huh, compare that to China's own bloody history.

I'm sure you guys realize that even if Japan admitted these crimes, the next step for the victims would go something like: 'See they admitted it! Now give us compensation.' And more and more claims of which a lot false no doubt will come and keep coming with no end. Sad to say, but it was war and a dirty war at that. It happened and people have changed. Soon, none of the war-generation will be left and these issues should mostly die out in time.

The Germans solved the problem by making sure that every German child is taught at school about the evil past of their country, and they made it a crime to deny it. This approach resulted in Europe being at peace with Germany.

It is unfortunate for Japan how their government, in their pride, continues to attempt denial of history as accepted by the rest of the world. They have everything to gain, including the respect of the entire world, and very little to lose by fully acknowledging their past atrocities. Sadly, it may be too late and two of their closest neighbours will continue to dislike Japan, costing billions in trades every year.

As terrible as these acts against women were, I don't think insulting the current population of Japan will do any good. Why should people born in the post war years up to the present be made to feel guilty for acts carried out by the Imperial Army?

@ Thunderbird2: Nobody in their right mind would look at a newborn Japanese baby and accuse him of rape. However if that baby grew up oblivious of history and started to deny facts of history even going as far as calling the comfort women 'willing prostitutes' who enjoyed posh lifestyles, we have a problem.

i'm not under mining how many woman were raped, its interesting to note that its only China and Korea that keep bringing this up over and over.

@Soulknyt: Taiwanese, Filipino, Dutch, Indonesian women have also testified, even an Australian woman. Most victims were Chinese and Korean, which is why majority of women who've come forward are from these 2 countries.

past ministers may have apologized for these war crimes... but as long as new ministers backpedal through them, the argument that jpn has done 'enough' becomes moot

@cramp: True. Maybe Japanese government needs to follow the example of the Germans and make it unconstitutional to deny war crimes?

Japan does not want to and will not deal with this appalling disgusting issue as it doesn't fit in with the "Victim Japan" image they have so carefully tried to craft.

@Umbrella: Yep.

not only sad but true story, good to see one woman just came up again, though the ww2 generation will pass on, such sad stories will of course never end, japan really need to do something about it not for the short but long term

Soulknyt: "its interesting to note that its only China and Korea that keep bringing this up over and over."

Ummm.... did you bother to read what the nationality of the woman in question here is? What's "interesting to know", if you can call it that, is that you wouldn't bother before suggesting this is about China and Korea. And as Mitch Cohen pointed out: "Taiwanese, Filipino, Dutch, Indonesian women have also testified, even an Australian woman. Most victims were Chinese and Korean, which is why majority of women who've come forward are from these 2 countries."

Owens: "But maybe you should ease up and not make it so personal with those who have a different opinion. Chakun is just offering a different viewpoint and didn't attack your character in anyway."

I couldn't care less if he or she attacked me personally. What I care about is that he or she is a MAJOR part of the problem. He's not stating an 'opinion', he's claiming an entire people who were victims of rape were prostitutes. That this attitude STILL exists today is absolutely sickening. He even calls himself a denier!

I'll make you a deal, though: I'll ease up when Japan admits its history instead of waiting for the people who lived it to die.

smithinjapan - if you use the 'quote' tag your post would be easier to follow. It's an arrow head pointing to the right, followed by the text you want to quote.

@ Thunderbird2: Nobody in their right mind would look at a newborn Japanese baby and accuse him of rape. However if that baby grew up oblivious of history and started to deny facts of history even going as far as calling the comfort women 'willing prostitutes' who enjoyed posh lifestyles, we have a problem.

Sheltering someone from the truth makes them ignorant of the facts, not callous or guilty. The government and the education system are to blame, not the child. Yes we all have the ability to learn about the truth ourselves, but if you believe the truth to be a lie, because that's what you've been told, does that make you any more to blame for denying what happened?

That is something that happens with religion too... Christians are taught to believe that there is a god, whether that god exists isn't the point, it's what you and those around you have been told is the truth. So a child growing up in Saitama, told that comfort women were paid prostitutes will believe that because it's what they've been told is the truth. The child isn't to blame for what he or she believes.

Do you understand what I'm getting at? You can't blame the people if they believe what the rest of the world doesn't.

Another side of this is denial... imagine you were told that your grandfather, who you've venerated as a war hero was actually a rapist and murderer of women and children. How would you cope if your entire world imploded? So you refuse to accept what people in other countries are saying. Your grandmother, mother, other relatives all said he was a soldier fighting for Japan and the Emperor, yet he was a war criminal. Is it any wonder that people won't accept it?

Would a modern American, for example, accept that one of his ancestors in the late 1870s killed Native American women and children to make way for settlers? Or that my own ancestors killed women and children in Africa to protect the Empire?

You can't blame current generations and hold them culpable for anything their ancestors several generations may have done... and I seriously doubt that all Imperial Army soldiers were rabid murderers and slavering rapists.

But isn't this the same apology Abe wants rescinded? I mean, forget for a second that he and many others in Japan have tried to repeatedly deny there were sex slaves. Forget for a minute that people like Ossan and other posters, who represent a pretty common mentality in Japan, blame it all on South Korean prostitutes when they finally have to admit what happened. Forget for a bit that a whole heap of people who were never born at the time and are forced to read white-washed textbooks pretend to know more about the events before they were born than the people who lived them. Just tell us: the letter you quoted is the exact thing Abe wants to retract, correct?

In a word. NO.

Come on, we've been through all this countless times. Japan hasn't apologised enough and needs to atone a bit more. But, I firmly believe that the Koreans will never be satisfied with any apology or compensation from Japan no matter if it really is sincere and heartfelt or not. Deciding whether someone is being sincere is a personal thing. Can any government really be sincere when someone (i.e. the Prime Minister or President) is just reading out a message written by someone else? It just doesn't work. The fact that there is proof the South Korean comfort women issue was settled in the 1960s doesn't seem to mean anything to some people. It also seems quite convenient for South Korea to bring up the topic every so often to reopen old wounds, remind their citizens how evil Japan was or is, and probably just to change topics on the domestic front. If Japan hasn't apologised directly to the Philippine government (and specifically those who were abused), that would be a good thing even if just a few victims feel slightly better 70 years on. But I believe apologies (as sincere an apology as one could hope for from a government that is supposed to represent the people) have been made to all countries in Asia that were terrorised and traumatised by the Imperial Japanese Army all those years ago.

@serendipitous:

Come on, we've been through all this countless times. Japan hasn't apologised enough and needs to atone a bit more. But, I firmly believe that the Koreans will never be satisfied with any apology or compensation from Japan no matter if it really is sincere and heartfelt or not.

You are quite harsh on how Koreans continue to call for more atonement, but quite generous and forgiving of recent efforts by the Japanese PM to downplay and deny past atrocities? Why is that?

Can any government really be sincere when someone (i.e. the Prime Minister or President) is just reading out a message written by someone else? It just doesn't work.

Sincerity aside, how about not moving to deny past crimes and accuse victims of lying? Since the Japanese apologies of the 1990s this issue did not gather much public attention. Abe denying there was coercion in the comfort women practices changed all that in 2007.

The fact that there is proof the South Korean comfort women issue was settled in the 1960s doesn't seem to mean anything to some people.

If you compensate, are you then allowed to change your tune later and accuse the victims?

It also seems quite convenient for South Korea to bring up the topic every so often to reopen old wounds, remind their citizens how evil Japan was or is, and probably just to change topics on the domestic front.

It seems quite convenient for Japanese supporters to claim Korea and China need Japan as an enemy to deflect blame away from domestic problems. Korea keeps re-opening old wounds? Nope, nearly all Korean news headlines on this issue I can remember was in response to Japanese efforts to downplay their atrocities. So why does Japan keep re-opening old wounds, rather than allow the apologies in the 1990s be the final word?

@ nigelboy:

By your logic, the fact that there are legal brothels in Thailand that comply with the law would mean human trafficking and child prostitution does not exist? So you believe that the Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese, Filipino, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Malay, Thai, Burmese, Indian, Timorese women etc are all telling the same lie? And only Japanese politicians are telling the truth? US Congress, Canadian Parliament, United Nations, European Parliament all in on the same lie? Really?

By your logic, the fact that there are legal brothels in Thailand that comply with the law would mean human trafficking and child prostitution does not exist? So you believe that the Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese, Filipino, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Malay, Thai, Burmese, Indian, Timorese women etc are all telling the same lie? And only Japanese politicians are telling the truth? US Congress, Canadian Parliament, United Nations, European Parliament all in on the same lie? Really?

Thank you. Thank you Thank you. It does exist today but very little has been done to combat this yet it appears that the focus is on this past where the perpetrators are either executed, punished or are no longer here with us.

Let's get this straight. The Japanese government is not denying the existence of comfort women. The government is not denying is that there were rapes among soldiers. The government is not denying that there were some women who were recruited as a result of unfortunate circumstances. What the government is questioning is the Comfort Women's Inc's accusation that "more than 200,000 women and girls were abducted by the armed forces of the government of imperial Japan"

WAR is WAR back in those days people were more brutal, just as the cave men before were even more brutal today its not any different except that we as human want to tend to think that we are more intelligent because we have what we call so call "man made laws" for humanity sake. Think about what this women said "She later had a family, but kept her past secret until 1993, when she heard news about sex slavery on the radio. “At first, I was too embarrassed to reveal my past. But I decided to do so because it would be the only way I could get my lost dignity restored." DOES GETTING DIGNITY RESTORED MEAN YEN, OR DOLLARS. There is no shame, if you keep your past hidden, but when it comes to the possibility of getting money when you are literally poor all the shame goes away. I guess money means exceptance. My question is if their is a cave women still alive please come forward to claim your support for compensation. Sorry as I said before WAR is WAR and back then it was what it was, lets move forward. An apology has been made so deal with it.

Mitch

And your solution is what, exactly?

Any victims have already had apologies aplenty. The comfort women issue was addressed specifically in public apologies from the government - twice by Miyazawa in 1992, once by Kono in 1993, in 1994 by Murayama, once more by Murayama in 1995, by Hashimoto in 1996, again by Hashimoto in 1998, and twice by Koizumi in 2001. Those are just the apologies that are easy to find and for which official quotes exist.

In addition, victims who claimed of their sufferings to the AWF were given a signed apology from the then prime minister Tomiichi Murayama, stating "As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women."

Compensation was offered and paid out to those willing to take part in the AWF. Since that fund operated for about ten years its hard to believe any victims could have been unaware of its existence.

No more apologies and absolutely no more compensation.

If maybe I killed your cat. 60 years later you complain and i offer an apology and money. Then 10 years later you tell me that I did bad... I start to think that you just hate me or want more money from me. But if your kids complain to my kids about that I killed your cat. They will start to hate you all together

Mitch

Read through some of the English report in the link you gave.

Under 'Personality' on p. 204, '.......the average Comfort Girl to be about 25 years old, uneducated, childish, whimsical and selfish....She is afraid of Chinese and Indian troops.'

Is it not shocking that these 20 Korean girls who were interrogated by the US military didn't mention they were afraid of Japanese soldiers?

Under 'Living Conditions' on p. 204 as well, 'They lived in near-luxury in Burma compared to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received 'comfort bags' from home.'

'While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men; and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph; and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping.'

I'm not saying it was a nice place to be for these women but, when you read this (from the link you posted) which certain appears to include authentic interrogation reports conducted by the US, it is understandable that some Japanese historians, and therefore, some Japanese people, developed a different view of the Comfort Women situation. No doubt many were mistreated but there seem to be some discrepancies about how terrible or how controlled the women were. I was very surprised to read what I just read in that link.

Much of the current debate about comfort women is regarding the Japanese denial of comfort women (in particular, Shinzo Abe who re-opened old wounds in 2007 with a public denial of coercion in the military brothels).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544471/Japanese-PM-denies-wartime-comfort-women-were-forced.html

Many of you continue to say "but Japan has apologised in 1993, 1996, 1998 etc etc", but conveniently ignore the fact that the top official of Japan, the prime minister himself, openly denies the women were coerced (basically calling them willing prostitutes who are now deceiving the whole world).

No one can deny Japan has offered apologies, but apologies as a general rule are accepted on the condition that the victims are not later accused of deception.

Somebody asked before what is the solution then. The solution in my mind is for Japanese government to let an apology be their final word on this issue (without attempts to deny them later), and educate the younger generations of Japanese on horrors of their regime, rather than teach that Japan was the victim because of the A-bombings.

You don't see people still calling for German government to apologise or to take any action, because in the eyes of the whole world, they have apologised without constant attempts at denial, and not only teach their atrocious past in schools but also make it unconstitutional to deny war crimes.

"She later had a family, but kept her past secret until 1993, when she heard news about sex slavery on the radio."

Just a simple question, why didn't she ask for commensations from the "Asian Women's Fund" which ran from 1995 until 2007?

nigelboyAug. 13, 2013 - 07:24AM JST False. The debate is whether or not the government at that time had the policy of abducting women to serve as comfort women.

Source: Statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Kono Yohei on the issue of the "comfort women"

August 4, 1993

The Government of Japan has been conducting a study on the issue of wartime "comfort women" since December 1991. I wish to announce the findings as a result of that study.

As a result of the study which indicates that comfort stations were operated in extensive areas for long periods, it is apparent that there existed a great number of comfort women. Comfort stations were operated in response to the request of the military authorities of the day. The then Japanese military was, directly or indirectly, involved in the establishment and management of the comfort stations and the transfer of comfort women. The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military. The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments. They lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.

As to the origin of those comfort women who were transferred to the war areas, excluding those from Japan, those from the Korean Peninsula accounted for a large part. The Korean Peninsula was under Japanese rule in those days, and their recruitment, transfer, control, etc., were conducted generally against their will, through coaxing, coercion, etc.

Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

It is incumbent upon us, the Government of Japan, to continue to consider seriously, while listening to the views of learned circles, how best we can express this sentiment.

We shall face squarely the historical facts as described above instead of evading them, and take them to heart as lessons of history. We hereby reiterated our firm determination never to repeat the same mistake by forever engraving such issues in our memories through the study and teaching of history. As actions have been brought to court in Japan and interests have been shown in this issue outside Japan, the Government of Japan shall continue to pay full attention to this matter, including private researched related thereto.

Just a simple question, why didn't she ask for commensations from the "Asian Women's Fund" which ran from 1995 until 2007?

Good question. I've wondered about the same thing.

Doing a bit of reading on this issue, it looks like some victims felt that compensation from a non-government organisation was not what they wanted.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/korea.html

THIS WAS WAR-CRIME...

The problem is... there is nothing "official" about the Japanese government. There's nothing from them that says something like "This is we, the Japanese government, which represents the people of Japan, clearly stands for". You can't just make apologies, then a few years later have someone retract that apology, like what Abe is doing right now. We have no idea what the Japanese governments stands for, because nobody is actually making that decision, nobody is standing for anything. There has never been any official statement from the Japanese government that has been carried through consistently.

What the Japanese government needs, is some sort of a central identity, a central core which decides and plans what the Japanese government should do.

Many of you continue to say "but Japan has apologised in 1993, 1996, 1998 etc etc", but conveniently ignore the fact that the top official of Japan, the prime minister himself, openly denies the women were coerced (basically calling them willing prostitutes who are now deceiving the whole world).

If so, then the criticism should be focused on Mr Abe and his current policies. No need to go all the way back to the events of the WW2 itself and give tearful recountings of eighty and ninety year old atrocities as if treaties have not been signed, war criminals have not been executed, aggressors have not been punished, apologies have not been delivered, billions in compensation and "loans" have not paid out ..... and eighty years have not passed. It beggars belief that people are still going on about events from a previous century like they happened just last year or something.

As to Mr Abe's position on this issue .... given his actual comments (not the caricature you attempt to pass off above), I suspect he believes what any sane person believes; that here were poor innocent girls, straight up kidnapped and assaulted, there were dirt poor village girls sold by a relative or other brokers into servitude, and certainly there would have been "willing prostitutes (your words). Apologies have been tendered to all, and compensation offered to any who would take it. Now can we move back to the 21st century please.

If so, then the criticism should be focused on Mr Abe and his current policies.

True. But he is not just an individual. He is the top official in the Japanese government, and his actions and words carry far more weight than that of one person. What he says is basically what Japan says, in many people's eyes.

I suspect he believes what any sane person believes; that here were poor innocent girls, straight up kidnapped and assaulted, there were dirt poor village girls sold by a relative or other brokers into servitude, and certainly there would have been "willing prostitutes (your words).

True, but does he portray a fair representation of that? The world's mainstream media all share the view that Japanese government leans towards downplaying or outright denying past atrocities, this link below being one of many examples: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/opinion/another-attempt-to-deny-japans-history.html?_r=0

Apologies have been tendered to all, and compensation offered to any who would take it.

You missed the point about Japanese PM denying there was coercion. Coming from a Japanese PM, that will be seen by the victims as a revoke of past apologies.

Now can we move back to the 21st century please.

Let's hope. But Japanese government is not making it easy for the ageing women to move on, for reasons I've outlined many times already. Let an apology be the final word from Japan on this issue. Sincerity in my mind equals no future attempts to revise apologies or downplay historical events.

Mitch Cohen, since you are so knowledgable on this matter, will you read this text?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.+Con.+Res.+226:

It is a proposed resolution at US Congress in 2003. How do you rate the accuracy of the resolution? If the text is inaccurate, is it "down playing" the issue to request the revision of the text?

@ Mitch

True. But he is not just an individual. He is the top official in the Japanese government, and his actions and words carry far more weight than that of one person. What he says is basically what Japan says, in many people's eyes.

I think his comments on the issue have been overblown. Certainly you over-state them above when you say he "openly denies the women were coerced - basically calling them willing prostitutes who are now deceiving the whole world." In fact, if he or any other Japanese politician says "anything" that deviates in any way from what ROK activists consider the "truth", then his whole statement is out the window and we are back to square one in the apology game. Its ridiculous. The only safe thing to do would be to say nothing whatsoever.

For example if Mr Abe asserts that surely there were some "willing prostitutes" associated with military camps, that does not mean he thinks zero women were coerced/forced by military directly, If he or any other j-pol says that he believes it was not government policy to coerce/force women into slavery, that does not mean he fails to recognize that it happened in many cases. If he or any other j-pol states that some number less than 200K were coerced/forced by the military, this does not mean he think zero women were so coerced/forced. When it comes to criticism of the Japanese government, I see a lot of people inferring the opposite of what is stated as if that is logical in any way.

I thought the whole recent ruckus over Hashimoto's comments was a perfect example of that. People were right here on this site saying stuff like "he called them willing prostitutes" .... and that was not what Hashimoto said. In fact he expressed sadness and distress that any women were violated at all and firmly recognized that Japan was right to apologize for what they had caused. He availed himself of historical context (something no official in Japan seems to know how to do correctly) to assert that it was a different era and a different method of warfare and one in which women's rights were an unknown concept. As true as that is, of course people called it an "excuse" and said he was "saying that it was OK to abuse women". Which of course was nothing like what he actually said. In fact, even after being attacked by activists deliberately twisting his words, he was still planning to go ahead with meeting the elderly victims from ROK but they pulled out at the last minute. Do you honestly think he was going to be anything other than kind to those women. Was he arranging a meeting in order to rebuke them? I seriously doubt it.

The world's mainstream media all share the view that Japanese government leans towards downplaying or outright denying past atrocities

Yes, they probably do. The world's mainstream media has the attention span of a gnat. But even they will finally pay attention if year after year the activists trot out another victim of "imperialism" and recount stories of the bad old days. Or if the activists are determined enough they can erect a memorial right in front of the Japanese Embassy of all places and hold rallies at the weekends to publicize their cause. Or if the activists try hard enough and donate enough money they can buy off left wing councilors in cash strapped cities like New Jersey and get plaques and memorials to their suffering erected in the public parks of foreign countries. And so on and so on. The activists do a wonderful job of keeping their eighty year old grudge front and center. Its to the point that we can't go a month now without someone suggesting japan needs to apologize some more. I hope the activists know that the sympathy card can only be played so many times before the world's mainstream will tire and move on to something more atrocious.

You missed the point about Japanese PM denying there was coercion.

No I didn't. Like I said above, I reject the notion that he has ever said that. Please show me a quote from Abe denying any and all coercion. What he "denies" is that they were all coerced.

But Japanese government is not making it easy for the ageing women to move on, for reasons I've outlined many times already.

I disagree. Its the activists that are making it impossible for these elderly victims to move on. It is the activists who keep bringing the issue back up again and again.

Coming from a Japanese PM, that will be seen by the victims as a revoke of past apologies.

I don't agree with this either. If someone says sorry and you accept the words at that time, that's it. If a criminal does a crime, is punished by the courts and comes out, he is thought to have paid his debt to society. It would not be right to keep hounding the person for what they had done after the court has imposed a lawful verdict.

Let an apology be the final word from Japan on this issue.

Another one?

I think his comments on the issue have been overblown.

I don't think Abe's 2007 comments made in public are overblown at all. But we can agree to disagree.

Certainly you over-state them above when you say he "openly denies the women were coerced - basically calling them willing prostitutes who are now deceiving the whole world." In fact, if he or any other Japanese politician says "anything" that deviates in any way from what ROK activists consider the "truth", then his whole statement is out the window and we are back to square one in the apology game.

Again, I feel that Abe's statement that there is no evidence to prove there was coercion is a clear statement.

Its ridiculous. The only safe thing to do would be to say nothing whatsoever.

Exactly. Apologies have been made, so do not say things that will be seen as negating it, especially things that will be seen as attempts to deny the past. I've said that a few times in this thread already.

So what we have here, in conclusion, that one side is overplaying the issue by making a catch all statement that 200K were abducted by IJA and when the other side questions the validity and the accuracy of this view, they are viewed as "downplaying", "whitewashing" hence the apology is not sincere. As someone said, back to square one.

I love how even though we don't know the exact number of sex slaves there were, some here are absolutely "sure" that there's "no way" that the number was over 200,000. Do they have a time machine to prove this?

Mitch Cohen

Again, I feel that Abe's statement that there is no evidence to prove there was coercion is a clear statement.

In 2007, Abe denied the existence of proof of coercion, but did not deny the coercion itself. What he did was to propose that study group of historians be organized for further study of the coercion. His proposal was translated as "revision" of Kono statement, but is it fair?

By the way, what do you think of the proposed US congress resolution in 2003?

In 2007, Abe said there is "no proof Japan’s wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army."

Which is odd, b/c the Japanese government had already admitted the use of brothels in 1993. That is why, on March 27 the Japanese parliament issued an official apology for Abe's statement.

We have a phrase for people like this in the West, y'know, people who lie about well-documented evils done in the past:

Holocaust Deniers.

Germany actually makes it a crime to deny the Holocaust. Wouldn't it be nice if Japan did the same concerning the lies about their war of aggression.

JTDanMan Aug. 15, 2013 - 06:43AM JST In 2007, Abe said there is "no proof Japan’s wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army." Which is odd, b/c the Japanese government had already admitted the use of brothels in 1993. That is why, on March 27 the Japanese parliament issued an official apology for Abe's statement.

Abe might be correct based on 1965 agreement with Korea. In 1965 the issue was settled for $500 million that was paid out to Korea. The Japan goverment asked Korea goverment to show the concrete number of conscripted workers and soldiers, dead and injured and how much unpaid wages were. They asked to "show the evidences and they would pay". Korea agreed and investigated them. What I want to clarify here is that Korea DIDN'T CLAIM the compensation for the war time prostitutes. Why didn't they? It's because there was no abducted prostitute. Nobody said at the time in Korea, those prostitutes were abducted. Everyone knew there were many women who were so poor that they sold themselves to live and the Japan army didn't have to abduct Korean women. There were many Korean volunteers for Japan army at the time. Therefore Koreans didn't claim it at that time. It's the Korea goverment's agreement problem if they did not disclose the comfort women issue at the time. What did South Korean goverment do with the $500 million that Japan paid already? Since Japan settled the matter in 1965, South Korean goverment should pay these women from the money that they received.

sfjp

Your conclusion is wrong and the stuff about prior deals between Japan and ROK a red herring.

Your conclusion is "there was no abdcuted prostitute." First, there were. Second, the issue is not "abduction" but "coercion." There is plenty of evidence which documents the coercion of conquered females into prostitution by Japanese authorities. If you wish some, I can give it.

But that is not the issue, for I recognize people such as you -- y'know, Holocaust Deniers -- are not interested in proof, but rather denial. And so, I simply point out that the Japanese government in the past already issued a formal apology for Abe's comments, and the reason why it did so is because it accept the historical facts of the issue.

@JRDanMan,

It would be adviseable for you to read the facts of 1965 agreement than call people names of Holocaust Deniers. Have you read the 1200 pages of agreement between Japan and Korea?

After the payment was made by Japan to settle the entire issue with Korea, the 1965 documents reveals that the South Korean government claimed that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens who suffered during Japan's colonial rule while rejecting Japan's proposal to directly compensate individual victims and receiving the whole amount of grants on the behalf of victims.

As the result, there have been growing calls for the government to compensate the victims since the disclosure of the documents. A survey conducted shortly after the disclosure showed that more than 70 percent of Korean people believe the South Korean government should bear responsibility to pay for those victims. The South Korean government announced that it will establish a team to deal with the appeals for compensation, although "It has been the government's position that compensation for losses during the Japanese occupation has already been settled" .

sfjp

Do you believe there is "no proof Japan’s wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army?"

@JTDanMan

Alot of things are debateable. If Korea has a beef, they should've never got into agreement in 1965 with Japan until all the issues are met. Once there is a complete settlement agreement signed by both countries with payment, Korea and Japan has to stop. It's like a court proceedings for civil case, once the settlement is made and agreed by both parties, that is the end of it.

I do not ask about a lot of things. I ask:

Do you believe there is "no proof Japan’s wartime government coerced women into prostitution for the Japanese Imperial Army?"

JTDanMan,

The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military.

A lot of posters are mentioning "compensation" however, (of course I could be wrong) in my understating, they are NOT asking for compensation but for "recognition" and a "special day" to remember them by. However, "dear" Mr. Abe wants to rewrite history and deny that these women ever existed...

If a human being can be healed from such trauma who can say, some scars are too deep for the mind to allow one to feel, but a recognition and amends could go a long way: denying or ignoring will definitely not help those who were victimized.

Good on JT for not calling them 'comfort women', I've always found that term to be sadistically insulting and a way of furthering their pain and disgrace.

FightingVikingAug. 15, 2013 - 09:25AM JST

A lot of posters are mentioning "compensation" however, (of course I could be wrong) in my understating, they are NOT asking for compensation but for "recognition" and a "special day" to remember them by.

I recommend you read this article. http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/philippine-01.html

On the other hand, this is what happened to a former comfort women who accepted letter of appology of the Japanese Prime Minister and the compensation money from AWF.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/korea.html

japan should be ashamed. those old fashion government people should apologize already. makes me angry.

@nigelboy

there were some women who were recruited as a result of unfortunate circumstances.

You should work for the government. Or maybe you already do.

Its a tragedy what women like her suffered through at the hand of the IJA, whats more tragic is the deniers in the comment section.

Its a tragedy what women like her suffered through at the hand of the IJA, whats more tragic is the deniers in the comment section.

It is a shameful phenomenon, that history revisionists and denialists hold their heads up high here and their views pass as mainstream opinion. Tragic.

Japan can pay off these grandmothers and earn itself some valuable good will from all these countries including Korea. The cost would be pennies and the benefits would be immeasurable.