How the American unity forged after Sept 11 broke apart

Yes, and it's got us some great things, like TSA, warrant-less wire-tapping, arrest without cause, (the list goes on)

What would do wonders for American unity would be a REAL investigation into 911 that wipes off the cover up, identifies the REAL culprits and metes out justice.

How the American unity forged after Sept 11 broke apart

Bush chose to invade Iraq.

Bush chose to invade Iraq.

That was a huge part of it.

And so many Republicans are criticizing Hillary for supporting the war (which to be fair, deserves criticism), forgetting that:

1) It was their president pushing the war (that was based on lies)

2) Supporting it was a show of bi-partisanship

3) As a senator from New York, not supporting it would have been political suicide. People were not thinking straight at the time, everyone was hysterical in a panic, as America had never been attacked like that on American soil before.

Fighting and losing pointless wars on 2 fronts for many long years tends to drain a nation of its pride. And then being hit by the worst economic meltdown in living memory. Thanks, George!

The problem is not military or diplomatic, but economic.

For the past 8 years the world has been mired in recession, a so-called "recovery", and a dismal economic environment. People around the world have more pressing matters to worry about than remembering 9/11, the war on terror, or even the troubles currently bubbling over in the middle east.

1) It was their president pushing the war (that was based on lies

One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

I guess the people above didn't lie? I guess you aren't aware that all of the intelligence which Bush received came from the Clinton administration's CIA apparatus? The Clintons had been pushing this war for years before Bush came to office, hadn't they?

Of all the people involved with starting the Iraq war, Bush is probably carries the least blame, because he was the one who knew the least. Clinton was in office for 8 years, many of the senators who voted for the war were members of the armed services and intelligence committees, and these people should have known what was going on. That they didn't was not Bush's fault. But on the other hand, he was president, and the final decision was his. But Bush was a puppet, brought into office by the powers-that-be, and as a puppet, the blame for the war can be conveniently blamed on him.

what unity? was illusory at best.

"....all of the intelligence which Bush received came from the Clinton administration's CIA apparatus?"

That's hilarious. In the lead up to war, Cheney was making regular trips to CIA HQ demanding that they come up with "Intelligence" that showed Saddam's role in 9/11 or otherwise justifying invasions.

They couldn't, of course, because no such intelligence existed. That didn'T stop Cheney, who engaged in his extensive cherry picking campaign, which is well documented by a number of sources, including the CIA agents he harassed for the transgression of trying to tell him the truth.

They couldn't, of course, because no such intelligence existed. That didn'T stop Cheney, who engaged in his extensive cherry picking campaign, which is well documented by a number of sources, including the CIA agents he harassed for the transgression of trying to tell him the truth.

Cheney is not Bush, and I am no fan of either. But it was not "Bush's war" any more than it was Mickey Mouse's. The decision to invade Irag was signed by Bush, but it was made even before he became a candidate. Had Gore won the election, don't think for a moment that things would have been substantially different. The powers-that-be wanted a war, and they were going to have it regardless of who was sitting in the white house. You can see that by reading the quotes above. Bill Clinton began the cherry picking as early as 1996, and it was Clinton's own George Tenet, director of the CIA who said in 2002 that Iraq's WMD program was a "slam dunk."

I was in the Army at that time, and plans for an Iraq invasion were being written up in Clinton's first term. Everyone in the military who served in the first gulf war knew without a doubt they would be going back. The pieces were set in motion long before poor Bush was even being considered a serious candidate for president.

But you can keep blaming Bush if it makes you feel better, and you can continue to believe that Hillary and her husband had nothing to do with the Iraq war if it does the same.

Had Gore won the election, don't think for a moment that things would have been substantially different.

That argument is no argument. You could say the same about any single issue - "Don't think for a second Obamacare wouldn't have happened if McCain and Palin had won the White House" etc.

Unless you have someone on the record saying specifically it is what they would do, trying to put forth some baseless hypothesis is not an argument whatsoever.

Whatever Gore would or wouldn't have done is irrelevant, because he didn't become president. Whatever Bush did do is entirely relevant, because he was president.

It was Bush's war, and any attempts to wiggle out of that will be called for the garbage that they are.

The pieces were set in motion long before poor Bush was even being considered a serious candidate for president.

And I am sure the US has contingency plans for invading/fight the likes of NKorea & China etc etc

It doesn't mean they will actually ACT on those scenario's, Bush DID & the US & the world continue to pay a very heavy price for it!

Cheny & Rumsfeld should have long been tried & convicted at the Hague!

Cheny & Rumsfeld should have long been tried & convicted at the Hague!

This illustrates a big difference between the right and the left. The right will pursue a non-issue as part of a smear campaign, wasting millions upon millions of dollars, and years of people's lives. While the left isn't even really pushing for the same against someone who was shown to have lied clear as day about WMDs in Iraq, causing an invasion of a sovereign nation.

Unless you have someone on the record saying specifically it is what they would do, trying to put forth some baseless hypothesis is not an argument whatsoever.

All I have is that the war started, that Hillary, Gore, et al supported it, and that they were in power for many years before Bush was elected. And having been in power, and with full access to all the intelligence and information available, they believed Saddam was pursuing a chemical and biological weapons program. And even two years after losing to Bush, Gore supported Bush's going to war, as did Bill, Hillary Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Reid, Schemer, and the rest. Bernie is the only notable exception.

I was also in a SOC unit at Ft McPherson from 1992, when the wheels began turning for a second gulf war. Had Mickey Mouse been president from 2000, there would have been an Iraq war.

Had Mickey Mouse been president from 2000, there would have been an Iraq war.

Had Romney won the election he would have doubled down on Obama care.

Or not. Who knows. It's useless speculation, and trying to claim that someone who wasn't elected would have done something is absolutely meaningless, because they didn't win, and they didn't do anything.

But what we do know is that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld etc did start a war, based on lies, invading a sovereign nation that had not attacked them first. The responsibility is theirs, the responsibility does not belong to whomever you fantasize may have done the same thing in the same position.

After Sept. 11, signs of newfound unity seemed to well up everywhere

That wasn't the impression I had.

I saw a distinct divide amongst Americans. Those who swallowed the propaganda and jumped up and down waving flags, yelling at anyone who looked vaguely like an Arab and those who couldn't bring themselves to believe the hype and bald faced lies that Bush, Cheney et al were putting out.

There were massive demonstrations against the proposed war in Iraq. Some people even suggested that there might be a civil war.

Since then, the divide has widened.

Most of the freedom that the USA once enjoyed has gone. It's beginning to take on the colour of a communist country. Try to talk about 9/11 in a group of Americans and the room just goes quiet.

I get the impression that Americans are tired of constant pointless wars.

I would be too.

Had Mickey Mouse been president from 2000, there would have been an Iraq war.

False. And this is important:

Invading Iraq was a neo-conservative dream hatched way back in the first Gulf War, after Bush Sr sent them packing. The neo-cons had their hooks in Cheyney, who desired oil and the power of a War Presidency. Rummy signed on for different reasons. The small group chose the Dim Wit because he was connected, electable, ignorant and thus pliable. The sold the the Dupe fantansic yarn of unlimited US power -- who bought it because he was and is a fool. He, in turn, tried to sell it to America, who never really bought it. But fear is a powerful motivator, and many Americans, despite all the abuse, want to believe their leaders wouldn't lie the nation into a war.

Gore would not have invaded Iraq. Saying so is a lie. And foul lie at that.

Iraq was and is Bush's war. Never forget it.

Can the United States feel united again?

No. Even another 9/11 will not re-unite America again. Whenever the tough gets going the new identity politics America turns to tribalism (usually ideology or race). We now have ultra-rich athletes blaming America as a whole for the wrongs of a few all the while ignoring the bigger problems within their own 'tribe'. A critical mass of so called 'Americans' no longer believe in American ideals. A large segment of the population would rather the country not even have a border.