Hypersonic missiles could challenge U.S. naval supremacy

Just what the world needs. Another missle system to let us sleep snug as a bug at night. I would have hoped by now, people would know the best security is to talk to each other.

You don't understand, we need these for when the aliens attack the planet! No point talking to each other since no Earthling can speak Martian.

The BrahMos is the most well know, but the fact is that Russia and India are not the only neighbors of China deploying supersonic missiles. Taiwan is discreetly arming their warships with Mach 2 Hsiung-feng 3 anti-ship missiles, even Japan is developing a Mach 3 anti-ship missile called ASM-3. The old american Harpoon is obsolete, short-range and slow, so we are forced to build our own stuff for have a decent chance of kill the coming chinese carrier. Now hypersonic missiles is quite a technical challenge that require a lot more money.

I can not find any reference to Japan in this article whatsoever (China calls it the East Sea). Why is this article even being being featured? Japan has no offensive posture navy, just a 'coast guard.' Since one can only make references to other countries besides Japan, shouldn't the moderators delete every comment? This is not Jane's Defence Weekly. 和平

To Mareo2,

Are you in the SDF? If you are, please look into the development towards the end of the Cold War. Both were moving into "signals intelligence" in R&D. Speed is secondary to targeting - example would be the Sunburn. I'm talking first tier equipment, and nothing exemplifies my analysis more than the F22. F15s can't even target the F22 - signal jamming. This is prime territory for the SDF to delve into in R&D.

To Shinhiyata,

What do you have against Jane's Defense Weekly - I like her.

I like her.

huh?

Talk about destabilizing. Such speed leaves little time for launch confirmation, trajectory tracking or anything else. That is the point, of course, but is notching up the tension really what the world needs now?

I hope someone comes up a system that pinpoints military mindsets only. The sooner we get those people out of the way the better.

Sadly I just know these things will be made to target civilian cities too, because military types just cannot be satisfied only killing eachother. Too much challenge for their coward hearts.

Doesn't mean a whole lot if you are the fastest gunslinger in town but your aim is bad. Your name will be on a tombstone soon enough. Hypersonic missile technology is just one aspect of war, anyway. SSBNs and attack submarines (and other stealth platforms) are the aces in the hole. They are much more of a deterrent (and threat) than a carrier force due to their stealth, missiles and warheads. What is China and India doing to counter that American advantage?... I thought so. America's demise has been greatly exaggerated.

Cruising at about Mach 6 (7,300 km/h), this scramjet-powered missile will carry six times more kinetic energy than a similar weapon at Mach 1.

The formula for kinetic energy K is K = m V V / 2, therefore, if the speed V increases 6 times, the energy K will increase 6 6 = 36 times (if the mass m* is the same in both cases), rather than 6 times, as the author claims.

"U.S. naval supremacy"

No worries, by the end of President Obama's second term, the U.S. military will no longer have supremacy over all other countries' militaries.

It would be nice if you backed that claim up Sarge. The U.S. still spends more on the military each year than any three nations on Earth combined, like say China, Russia and GB rolled into one. Even if Obama cut all funding for the Navy tomorrow, they could feed off their own fat until Obama leaves office and still be more supplied than anyone, maybe even if he gets a second term. So where does your melodrama come from?

I hope someone comes up a system that pinpoints military mindsets only. The sooner we get those people out of the way the better.

I think that maybe there is a secret group of conspiracy theorists working on it right now as we speak.

Missiles are last century, this century is all about railguns and gauss canons that can shoot projectiles at 5,368 miles an hour without having to speed up and it can't be shot down.

Google "Railgun Wikipedia"

I wouldn't worry of these "carrier killers". The U.S. has probably developed or finalizing devlopment of a solution to them.

"No worries, by the end of President Obama's second term, the U.S. military will no longer have supremacy over all other countries' militaries."

Ahh... This must be the tired old yarn where Conservatives contradictorily bleat that Democratic presidents are soft on defense and gutting our military, while simultaneously being warmongers, having presided over so many military actions over the years. Yawn.

what a sad world we live in :-( who can kill the other quicker .

Well jinjapan, at least they are trying to be nice by making it quick instead of slow and painful :p.

As mentioned by some posters, it's only effective if it's effective. It might look great on paper, maybe even initially test well, but then be totally useless in action. A lot of this is theory and more difficult than it's described in the article.

“China’s ability to bypass America’s robust air-defense capability and strike ships at sea with ballistic missiles could severely limit American naval power,” according to Abraham Denmark and James Mulverson of the Center for a New American Security.

Newsweek quotes retired U.S. rear admiral and defense attache to Beijing Eric McVadon describing China’s anti-ship weapons as “pretty daunting.”

Just park the aircaft carriers out of the range of these anti-ship rascals and the Big Kahuna, the DF-21D, and problem solved. Of course, some of China's anti-ship cruise missiles have incredible range, due to her increasing satellite capacity.

Looks like Japan may need to be a little nicer to the U.S....

Well, actually, the US seeks a "proxy" in order to avoid a direct confrontation w/ the PRC. In modern warfare, no single item will be used in naval confrontations on either side - waves of differing missiles combined w/ shock waves. Those in the know will know what I am alluding to.

apecNetworks at 04:36 PM JST - 8th January

Are you in the SDF? If you are, please look into the development towards the end of the Cold War. Both were moving into "signals intelligence" in R and D. Speed is secondary to targeting - example would be the Sunburn. I'm talking first tier equipment, and nothing exemplifies my analysis more than the F22. F15s can't even target the F22 - signal jamming. This is prime territory for the SDF to delve into in R and D.

No I'm not, I have problems with authority figures. The fact is that the japanese ASM-3 have some stealth technology for minimize the chance of the chinese defenses of intercept the missile.

mushroomcloud at 12:12 PM JST - 9th January

Just park the aircaft carriers out of the range of these anti-ship rascals and the Big Kahuna, the DF-21D, and problem solved. Of course, some of China's anti-ship cruise missiles have incredible range, due to her increasing satellite capacity.

With all due respect sir, I think there are some facts you have not considered. Ultra-nationalists chinese can interpret that as "americans are retreating" or like you like to say "shaking in her boots", emboldening them to take more aggressive actions. Of course only pretty shallow minded people can "interpret caution as cowardice", but it seems to be quite common in pro-china comments.

I don't know if people have read numerous sources on this, but a high ranking PRC Admiral recently stated that IF a naval confrontation materialized w/ the US, the PRC Navy would be HIGHLY motivated to stop a carrier task force like the USS Washington - they don't know if they can, so they are implying that they will "unload" everything on that task force if push comes to shove. There is very serious discussions on the net on this.

Well, this is our fault like everything else. Why do I say this? Because the fks that designed the missle probably went to engineering school in American universities! What can we do about it? Stop teaching engineering to foreigners.. sure they'd learn it in some other white country like Britian or France but so what. Next we can match their technology and third, we can change our diplomacy and stop forcing others to feel the need to produce these weapons systems. How? By stepping back our footprint in Asia.

In 19th and mid 20th century, the outcome of war was determined by naval supremacy. For 21st century, the larger the navy, the higher the risks of casualties and losses.

Even the air craft carrier which is powered by nuclear power can not match the lightening speed of hypersonic missiles from space. If the missiles from space can penetrate the air faster and swifter. The reason is lacking the gravity in the space. Super quiet Sub Marines may be more efficient than carriers because lacking traffic and visibility underneath of Ocean.

Now a days, missiles or ship navigation were controlled by GPS. Who can orbit invisibly in the space or hiding underneath of ocean will control the rival fate.

apecNetworks;

the PRC Navy

More correctly known as the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), which I'm assuming those in the know following such discussions "on the net" would be aware of.

mushrooncloud;

Just park the aircaft carriers out of the range of these anti-ship rascals and the Big Kahuna, the DF-21D

Bravo, such a brainstorm of insight from such an expert on things military. So basically, the US should just "park" it's carriers outside the 1700 km range of such missiles, i.e. give up the entire Western Pacific, Taiwan Strait, Sea of Japan, to China? I believe that would be the primary goal of China fielding these weapons?

To UnagiDon,

I stand corrected - usually try to use formal titles to countries, officials. Also, probably do the same w/ the PRC Army - it does get involved using all formal designations.

You know, don't you?

unagidon,

So basically, the US should just "park" it's carriers outside the 1700 km range of such missiles, i.e. give up the entire Western Pacific, Taiwan Strait, Sea of Japan, to China? I believe that would be the primary goal of China fielding these weapons?

Yep, out of their backyard and into our own hemisphere. How would we like it if they were lurking around our waters and we didn't have the means to blow them away? We'd develop some good missles and "carrier killers", sounds like we should have predicted this. cause and effect keeps the military industrial complex thriving and everyone else without health care.

unagidon,

"Bravo, such a brainstorm of insight from such an expert on things military. So basically, the US should just "park" it's carriers outside the 1700 km range of such missiles, i.e. give up the entire Western Pacific, Taiwan Strait, Sea of Japan, to China? I believe that would be the primary goal of China fielding these weapons?"

Unless you want to be a nice target within the 1700 km range. Have a better plan, genius?

Mareo2,

"With all due respect sir, I think there are some facts you have not considered. Ultra-nationalists chinese can interpret that as "americans are retreating" or like you like to say "shaking in her boots", emboldening them to take more aggressive actions. Of course only pretty shallow minded people can "interpret caution as cowardice", but it seems to be quite common in pro-china comments."

America's 'silent service' is China's Achilles heal. 4 Ohio Class subs with up to 154 Tomahawk missiles each, no cowardice here. Not to mention all the other Trident armed submarines that the U.S. has. America still rules the ocean, it is just that she will have to adjust on how she used her massive assets.

Furthermore, I mention that Japan is 'shaking in her boots', not America.

muhroomcloud;

Have a better plan, genius?

Yes - don't be afraid of paper weapons, and/or develop a defence if the threat turns out to be credible. Definitely don't abandon your ability to forward-project naval power because something bad might happen.

Doesn't have to be an active defence, can be something as simple (though not necessarily easy) as locating the launchers and attacking those, maybe even with a US paper weapon like the Prompt Global Strike.There are already several conventional ways to kill a carrier (subs, for example) without invoking untested threats. You are way too quick to buy any and all PRC military capabilities as show-stoppers and far too willing to cede ground to the PRC.

While Russia and CHina are developing hypersonic missile to kill aircraft carrier group, the US is developing hypersonic missile for deep target penetration anywhere in the world. As story mentioned, the US is one or several step ahead in hypersonic missile testing. Test with X-51 with Mach 5 was successful from B-52. Sooner or later X-51 will be tested in Trident-II-D5 ICBM with a range of 6,500 miles. Perhaps the US might revive the star-war program when Russia and CHina have perfected this hypersonic missile.... for there is a an assertion that "He who control the space will rule the world".

But as shown in the past world wars, the greatest weapon in the ocean is the intelligence. Naval Intelligence of inferior battle carrier group of the USN lead to the defeat of the mighty IJN in midway.

mushroomcloud at 11:13 PM JST - 9th January

America's 'silent service' is China's Achilles heal. 4 Ohio Class subs with up to 154 Tomahawk missiles each, no cowardice here. Not to mention all the other Trident armed submarines that the U.S. has. America still rules the ocean, it is just that she will have to adjust on how she used her massive assets.

Tomahawks are cruise missile for attack land targets, they can't sink a fleet, they only can sink warships if they are in port with their engines and weapons shut down, but the US Navy SSGNs can't control the sea. Trident can destroy cities but they also can't control the sea either. Resort to escalate to use nuclear weapons without being attacked with nuclear weapons first, is a recognition that a country as already being defeated in conventional warfare.

Furthermore, I mention that Japan is 'shaking in her boots', not America.

Of course Sir! You never say that the US is "shaking in her boots". I only pointed out what a chinese warmonger can say if the US do what you say about park US carriers beyond the range of chinese missiles. I just used a line that you repeated lately so you can easily understand the kind of feeling that the ultra-nationalists chinese most likely want to transmit to the readers. Like you already know, no ally of the US dare to even suggest that your proposal sounds like cowardice. I believe that american are brave men a women that don't are afraid of fight for what is right and just even if the odds are bad. People that talk big only when they think that they can't lose but run away when things look bad are a minority. God bless the United States of America.

Why should the Chinese have a need to use these weapons when they can just do Cold War 2.0? You have similar elements: arms/technology race, competing orthodoxies, MAD.. except this time, America is the one with the weaker and more fragile economy that could possibly collapse in an effort to maintain the war machine. Just keep on pushing and, when the USA does have a meltdown (an economic one), the Chinese can claim a moral victory for having the superior political/economic systems. They claim to always have a long-term view of things, so this might just be their master strategy yo.

the usa, like the british empire that preceded her, has no right to act as hegemon in east asia. the question at hand is to what extent china is able to claim territorial rights and the like over its extensive border and with respect to its long history, vis-a-vis the claims of neighboring countries. the usa's "projection of power" is simply not something that the world will recognize as proper in many places in the not too distant future. america needs to get its house in order and quickly, or it will simply become a second thought in most people's minds.

Time to develop good relations with Russia.

A missile of any speed can only hit what it can “see” so the way to go is to “hide” the carriers and I am sure that if electronics can be used to create multiple radar images from fighter aircraft they can be used to do the same for carriers.

There would also seem to be another question here that presents a puzzle. These scramjets engines need oxygen to function and there isn’t a lot of that in space, so just how do they to get around this? I accept that there is a way in that they could use a conventional engine to take the missile into space AND not separate until after the turn downward. This however would defeat the whole point of the speed these missiles have in that the launch could be tracked and target predicted. Maybe the US carriers have less to worry about than we are being lead to believe. Maybe the US navy would like some extra spending money and this is just a devious way of getting the US government to part with that money.

"A missile of any speed can only hit what it can “see” so the way to go is to “hide” the carriers and I am sure that if electronics can be used to create multiple radar images from fighter aircraft they can be used to do the same for carriers."

Yes, that line of questioning will lead to sensitive facts about task forces. If you know the answers, Mushroomcloud's posts does confirm those facts through reverse logic. More is involved than multiple radar signals.