Japan says it may cancel F-35 order if prices rise

"....dire consequences" might appear in US speech anytime soon.

That's why you need a fair and transparent bidding process. Japan buys overwhelming US hardware and aircraft due to the defense relationship, not due to costs or needs.

From the start, it was clear the Eurofighter was Japan's best option.

Finally some sensible words. Cancel the turkey already.

JeffLee:

" From the start, it was clear the Eurofighter was Japan's best option. "

That is not clear at all. Japan's military hardware is linked to the the US, it is problematic bringing in something completely different. But there are other planes available from US manufacturers that are available now, proven to work, and cost a fraction of this F35 pipedream.

Instead of these fancy, expensive fighter jets, how about just making some inexpensive roadside / remote controlled bombs? They kill and maim just fine.

In my personal experience flying the F35 (battlefield 3 and 2 LOL ) ... I would say it's not up to scratch of the latest jets.. No but seriously, the SU-35 and the Super Hornet out maneuver the f-35 with ease. Im angry at Australia purchasing the F-35 aswell. It would be in japans best interest to purchase a different aircraft to keep up to speed with China...

The F35 is an overpriced flying dinosaur. It is about as useful as the F22, which is a flying train wreck......when it flies. Which is not often.

Japan should just maintain it's fleet to F18s and accept the fact that the next air war will be flown by tiny little remote control / autonomous aircraft that can be built cheaply and launched in the thousands if required (a wall of aluminum) to protect from the North Korean hordes.

GG2141:

" Japan should just maintain it's fleet to F18s "

Japan has a fleet of F18s? Where?

Instead of these fancy, expensive fighter jets, how about just making some inexpensive roadside / remote controlled bombs? They kill and maim just fine.

Excellent idea, but you have to wait for an enemy to get inside you territory - which is not an excellent idea.

I'd say cancel this contract anyway. There are several other aircraft which fulfil Japan's requirements anyway such as the Eurofighter and other even slightly older aircraft.

only my opinion though, j-gov began to negotiate for improving the ratio of involvement with manufacturing that plane. i dont think they can decide to cancel anything from the US.

we don`t need to buy any arms. before that there are lots of things to do.

Cancel the order!

It's an incredible waste of money.

Why should Japan import any planes at all? As an engineering powerhouse, surely Japan could design and build her own warplanes. It's a mistake to be dependent on other nations goods for self-defense.

Money issue is just politics. Japan understands the real problem. If you ever tried shooting down China's J-10 with an F-35 you would know that the majority of the missiles will get really close to the J-10 and then curve away and keep going, missing. If you have ever shot down a F-35 with a J-10, you would know, the missiles hardly ever miss, ever. On the F-35, the heat source is right at the very end of the thruster nozzel. And on the J-10 the heat source is deaper inside the body of the J-10, which probably makes the heat source less visible to the AA missiles.

The answer proposed will be that the price is fixed, and additional costs will be "options". "Ah, you wanted engines as well? OK, we can source those for you!"

Japan narrowed selection to F35 and F18, so US probably not too bothered about not selling te F35, as the F18 would most likely have a higher profit margin.

America's industrial-military complex is an entity that government's around the world should have nothing to do with.

It has screwed America... that's their problem and they don't seem to care much about it... don't let it screw your country.

gyouza: "Japan narrowed selection to F35 and F18"

Er... Japan narrowed its selection to the F22. Period.

The F35 was an offer they couldn't refuse...

Herve Nmn L'Eisa, darn tootin! Japanese made beautiful planes before WW2. But drones are the future. And more usable in civilian surveys, too.

"it is problematic bringing in something completely different. "

No it isn't. Militaries worldwide do it all the time.You buy an integrated weapons system, which includes servicing, parts, etc. US systems are designed for the US, a huge military superpower. Japan's needs are wholly different, more in line with the more scaled-down needs that the Europeans have.

Enough with buying arms, make your own. Careful though, It may create jobs. Well said @herve nmn l'esa and @yasuhisa miyamoto

Last January, then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates had put the Marines’ version of the aircraft on a two-year probationary period because of “significant testing problems.

That variant's STOVL capability is what Japan should've got but they didn't.

Herve Nmn L'EisaMar. 01, 2012 - 09:30AM JST Why should Japan import any planes at all? As an engineering powerhouse, surely Japan could design and build her own warplanes. It's a mistake to be dependent on other nations goods for self-defense.

As far as I know, Japan is not allowed by big boss US to build such planes. Goes back to world war II. The aircraft that Japan has been able to build in recent times is the Shinmaywa US-2 amphibious craft, Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have built fighter planes but under license to American companies. Honda make some real nice helicopters and personal jets.

I think if Japan was allowed to make their own fighter planes, they would be tops. Consider that a lot of Japanese technology is in US air craft and the space program.

Japan should not buy F-35 fighter jets. It is too expensive. Japan doesn't need them because it will not make war anyway. There are other inexpensive fighter jets to defend the country.

Sounds like they are building a dumbed down version for Japan

Er... Japan narrowed its selection to the F22. Period.

US realised it was not exactly a great airplane, so rather than let other countries fly it and find out (i.e. realising it isn't reallya deterrent), they put an export ban on it, as it is too, er...... "sensitive" technology for others to use!! ;)

VicMOsakaMar. 01, 2012 - 10:30AM JST

As far as I know, Japan is not allowed by big boss US to build such planes. Goes back to world war II. The aircraft that Japan has been able to build in recent times is the Shinmaywa US-2 amphibious craft, Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have built fighter planes but under license to American companies. Honda make some real nice helicopters and personal jets.

The problem is that Japan needs to build any home-made plane in significant numbers to cover the costs of R&D. The problem is, Japan does not have a requirement for the numbers needed - and is forbidden contsitutionally from exporting weapons (something that is changing). Look at the F-35 for example: the US had to make it an international effort to cover costs, same for the Eurofighter.

Also, the US does not have any say on what Japan produces - in the 70s Japan made the Mitsubishi F-1 fighter, and has planned more modern fighters but balked at the costs.

That would be a blow to Lockheed, they really should prioritize and stop playing around and focus on the schedule to deliver.. higher more people to complete the job..

*hire

JeffLee:

" Militaries worldwide do it all the time.You buy an integrated weapons system, which includes servicing, parts, etc. US systems are designed for the US, a huge military superpower. Japan's needs are wholly different, more in line with the more scaled-down needs that the Europeans have. "

It is not just about parts. You seem to miss that the US military is already here and carrying a large part of Japan´s defense need. So obviously the JSDF should by planes that are compatible with what the Americans are using. Kind of strange one has to point that out...

That said, of course the F35 is not the plane they should buy.

It is another clever move by Japan. No wonder prices will rise if you play around with currencies.

My understanding of why they went with the F-35 was so they could get in on being a supplier to some of its systems and parts later on down the road since they kind of missed out in development.. under the hope that the constitutional ban on exporting military technology would be lifted eventually... Meaning there is more to the story as to why they went with the F-35

You'd think they would have locked down the price when placing the order.

Tanaka said failure by manufacturer Lockheed Martin to deliver on time at current price levels would force Tokyo to consider switching to a different aircraft.

........but Japan made F-2 (US F-16) in the late 90's for $110-128 million a plane but that's ok b/c Mitsubishi Heavy Industries made it? I have to side with Morgan on this one ,this is clearly Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and other Japanese arms makers trying to buy their way into business.

@ Eurofighter- the plane has been in service since 2003....finally saw combat in 2011 dropped 2 laser guided bombs, but the Target designation had to be provided by the Tornado (a plane from 1979).........anyway....

Stop supporting the American war machine, Japan. And take charge of those bases yourselves. It's going on 70 years now... surely you can take care of your own country by now, yes? America can't subsidize your defense forever.

Japan should immediately establish a consortium of manufacturers to build factory,design planes and bombs and tanks and start building them!This would create a large numbers of jobs and many new toys for us.

Cut the apron strings to the US. DIY!

j4p4nFTW

" Japan should immediately establish a consortium of manufacturers to build factory,design planes and bombs and tanks and start building them!This would create a large numbers of jobs and many new toys for us. "

I hope you are joking. Because the cost of that project would make even the F35 look cheap. Talk about a misguided "stimulus" on steroids...

The F-35's history of delays, problems, and cost increases were well-documented way before Japan picked the F-35 to replace its fleet of F-4 Phantoms. This smells a bit to me. It smells like Japan felt obligated to buy from its ally in order to promote good ally relations, but could never really justify the cost or the headaches the new plane has.

The solution? Pick the ally's "star" aircraft, then after a month or so let the ally know that any delays or cost increases will botch the deal and they'll go with something else. The ally is initially appeased and blame for the subsequent cancellation is foisted on Lockheed Martin's shoulders, rather than Japan's. Japan can turn to its people and say, "Well, we TRIED getting the best available, but chotto..."

I've got an idea.

Why doesn't Japan borrow money from China to buy these F-35s?

I bet they'd be happy to lend some.

@sfjp330 - Thats the funniest thing I ever heard lol, made my day. Just by looking at the J-10 you can see its a cheap knock-off of a F-16. Just like all Chinese made goods, its a cheap imitation. :D

The J10, like the F35, is a "vaporfighter". Neither one has any actual real-world (i.e. not on a video game) kills to its credit. Debating the superiority of one over the other is like debating which model car will be the best selling car... in the year 2075. There's no actual data out yet.

If Japan dumps the F35, then they'll go with one of the other two that was part of their competition: either the Eurofighter or the Super Hornet.

Canadian "blank check" well received as payment in full for Canada's slot in the Western power Structure - seen as a bribe for protection, from a criminally insane U.S. government. We prefer more contemporary jets, or even unmanned fighter drones, as used in Pakistan today by U.S. forces, but are "not allowed" to have such potent weapons here, by those that would rule the world with an iron fist south of our borders. Thank God, Canada is safe for another day. Blank check may cost us our Universal Heath Plan, and possibly our Tar Sands Oil, but we will live another day, poorer every day now in Canada as the monster to the south sucks all value from our land. Flurry of deals made with China lately may save some of our assets, but who do you feed, the Dragon or the Bull on Wall Street?

Consider this: (1) Japan is not at war with any country (2) The country is stricken with nuclear fallout: many dead and others in temporary shelters in dire need of help and nuclear plants still very unstable, nuclear debris not cleared, fate of nuclear waste water not yet known, future impact (health, economy, image, environment, etc) of the nuclear fallout and associated costs not yet known (3) you are not getting much external support to help you through the quagmire (4) Recently you were relegated to 3rd place as economic power; overtaken by China (5) Japan yen is not doing any better (6) Your debt burden is the highest among developed countries (7) Your systems such as water and electricity are nothing to talk home about, with many industries preferring to manufacture goods from other countries and not Japan (8) the threat of earthquakes continues unabated (5-10 earthquakes of varying strengths per day ) and future not known (9) The tourist industry that used to bring in some much needed forex is currently in limbo. (10) Japan has no natural resources to talk home about (11) Your products are still being shunned by other countries due to nuclear fears ......etc, etc, etc

THEN COMES JOKE OF THE YEAR.............AS IF THIS IS NOT ENOUGH, SOME SELFISH BUREAUCRATS FEEL STRONGLY JAPAN SHOULD LAVISHLY SPEND BUYING BRAND NEW HIGHLY EXPENSIVE FOREIGN FIGHTER JETS AMIDST ALL THIS CHAOS....MADNESS! WHERE IS THE LEADERSHIP?!

Such pull back if seriously being pursued will have dire consequences for the behemoth Military-industrial complex biz! Not only inflicting order loss to MIC, it also gives bad example to other prospective buyers.

Japan needs to spend much more in military equipment to prop the rather slow season of sales. Pentagon is facing budget cut so has much less cash to feed the mega establishment, therefore it's Japan's friendly obligation to assist. Payback time. The Haus of Saud has done their contribution!

Of course if Japan needs some payment terms, the Fed will be keen to help as necessary (it's in USD, isn't it?), the digitized printing through keyboard typing: 0 and 1 will be put in action.

Deus Ex Machina

Gee! As a distributor of High Tech Japanese Marine Navigational equipment, I have been fighting the increased value of the yen for the last two years. Now that it is finally d evaluating they say OH NO. The deal was probably singed back in 110 yen to the dollars days but at 81 Y to D, 30+ percent off original signing price, they balk!

WilliB

Japan's military hardware is linked to the the US, it is problematic bringing in something completely different.

LOL, Eurofighter and USA hardware are fully compatible, due to the NATO alliance... In my extended experience as a figher pilot on basially every fighter that flies on my Flight Simulator PC ;)) , the weaponry communications and call codes are all the same...

As you can see, I am talking as a well informed, vexed user of these planes :)

The IDEAL situation would be to have the same model plane as the ones your ally has in-country. Parts and repair work could be acquired from the ally in an emergency.

i hope they make their own thing....it would be great

Maybe the Japanese Air Self Defense force should buy those Chinese jets.

They sound like a better plane and I'll bet they are cheap.

If Japan wants real "bang for the buck", they should buy Sukhoi Su-30 MK. It is a 4+ generation fighter and will outmaneuver just about anything flying, and it's as robust as it gets. Long range and firepower at will, but Japan will never buy Russian. The Eurofighter is too expensive and I don't see them buying the Gripen, although it's a very capable 4+ machine. They might as well start drawing up the contract to buy the ageing F-18 Super Hornet.

johninnaha: To you, no US planes is good, right? So maybe Chinese planes will suit you. I digress.

But they can keep flying F4's and F15's....... Not really an alternative.