Japan stages annual rally over disputed islands with S Korea

"Japan stages annual rally over disputed islands with S Korea."

The context of "Japan" in this headline is simply misleading.

Funny thing is that when the government announced that they were sending someone from the cabinet office for the ceremony, South Korea reacted by stating that they would take extreme measures. Turns out to be yet another empty threat.

Did anyone happen to catch a photo of the demonstration at the Japanese Embassy in Seoul?

http://overdope.tumblr.com/post/43715779858/22

In front of children for god sakes!! Crazy.

Chance of Japan convincing anyone that these rocks that Koreans living on Ullungdo have been staring at and fishing on for thousands of years somehow became Japanese because of a unilateral land claim in 1905.. cough cough 4 years before Japan annexed Korea in 1909.... ZERO.

Chance of Japan convincing anyone that these rocks that Koreans living on Ullungdo have been staring at and fishing on for thousands of years somehow became Japanese because of a unilateral land claim in 1905.. cough cough 4 years before Japan annexed Korea in 1909.... ZERO.

And yet no Korean records showing anything to that affect. If people actually understood the true history of Korea and not the post war government version of their fantasy, they would understand how backwards they were for centuries up until Japan's annexation.

Actually nigelboy, before Japan went onto modernize in the 1800's, Korea was more advanced than Japan. It was through Korea, that Japan was able to receive the Sino culture. Japanese insolence and contempt for Koreans (and other Asians for that matter) came after Japanese modernization through copying of Western system. Japanese version of history is indeed very poor, considering that the disputed island was the first Korean island to be annexed in 1905, followed by the entire Korea .

nigeboy, this site lays down documents showing Korea's objections at that time to Japan's act of aggressions over the island.

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/korean-objections-to-japans-1905-claim.html

This link lays down Japan's imperialist motives behind their aggression toward Korea.

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/japans-illegal-1905-annexation-of-dokdo.html

Koreans living on Ullungdo have been staring at and fishing on for thousands of years

There will be no chance for Japan to get these islands. Dokdo has been Korean territory throughout history except during the Japanese occupation of Korea. It's funny, because Japan controls Senkaku, so they think it's theirs and claim it while hiding behind the US and South Korea controls Dokdo, but in Japanese minds it is also theirs? If they want to sound logical, Japan should just give up these islands.

South Korea just gets angry over anything Japan. Typical case of inferiority complex. They're anger is misguided due to the fact though 70 years has past since WWII, they are never closer to bringing their country to unite. Their rogue brother up North is getting crazy by the minute and all S. Korea can do is go after Japan with empty threats over some rocks. A country divided is not a country united.

It's funny because Japan did NOT care about those tiny islands until the scientists discovered that the islands contained rich deposits of natural gas.

Chucky, thanks for the post. Asian history does not start from the Meiji restoration period. I think there is a lot to be restored until now. I believe I have watched japanese TV programs where they acknowledge that Japanese came from Korea. Maybe a good check on DNA might lead to some clues. So, if Korea had already existed before Japan, why would these islands belong to Japan. Duhh. Even if Japan gets these islands as a generous gift from Korea, China no longer claims the Diaoyu as theirs, and Russians give the southern kuriles to Japan as a present, Japan will never find happiness and will always look for something to complain about. It is just that, some societies were not meant to be happy.

In a few years time, the World will take such a dramatic course that some countries will be set back in a much worse stand. And I believe fate will catch up with Japan.

The issue must be solved by the based on laws. Takeshima has been used to stimulate Korea's nationalism with their convenient fabricated selective information. The article mentioned about the women into sexual slavery issue. These two issues is needed to see some resolution soon. It is about time to face the history with the fact.

Amazing how virtually all Japanese believe Takeshima is part of Japan, and virtually all Koreans believe Dokdo is part of Korea. All depends on what you've been told as a child, apparently. Perhaps Japanese and Korean children can be told that these rocks and their surrounding fishing waters should be shared, and then when they become adults, they'll actually share them in peace.

they would understand how backwards they were for centuries up until Japan's annexation.

Maybe you should learn to be humble with the fact of how backwards Japan was when the black ships came 50 years previous and remained that way for another 20 years or so until reforms finally started. You might also realize that Japan was merely threatened with black ships to open up. They did not have invaders running around slapping people and stealing their little girls to rape.

Dokdo belongs to Korea for the same reason the Senkakus belong to Japan. Japan needs more time in the bathroom in the morning to wash its two faces.

@Steve Christian

Dokdo belongs to Korea for the same reason

Yes, I would agree with you if Dokdo and Takeshima were the same island. The fact and conflict is that many Japanese know that the Takeshima is not Dokdo with many histrical evidences from Korea since 512AD. I have no idea why the simple isseu has been twisted this much.

Sorry, but "there is no issue" on this -- the islands are lived on and administered by South Korea and are their sovereign territory -- or wait, does the 'non-issue' thing only work when JAPAN administers the islands?

Look forward to the hypocrisy and the, "b-b-b-b-but it's DIFFERENT here!" It sure is, but Japan still claims everything all the same; they just say the same rules in one case don't apply to them in the next if its not in their favor. Suck it up, Japan -- the islands are called Dokdo.

Japan doesn't care about this island but they have to keep the same policy for all the islands.

Steve Christian

Even before the Admiral Perry stepped foot on the black boats,the Japanese Shogunate knew of the various horrific stories of how the western Empiric forces colonized the South Eastern Asian region by force　they also had great knowlege on how the British engaged in the First Opium War.

Tokugawa Ieyasu knew how the Spaniard colonized South America through the Dutch and that was the biggest reason why they banned Christianity in Japan.

Talking as if Japan was completely in the dark is about as ignorant as it gets when discussing Japanese history.

All readers back on topic please. Posts that do not focus on what is in the story will be removed. And please keep the discussion civil.

LOL. No records attest to what fact?? That Koreans living on Ullungdo have been staring at and fishing on these islets for thousands of years? There are records for that but for argument sake do you need "records" for that? Go visit Ullungdo and see for yourself. What's the chance that islands that Koreans have known and fished on for thousands of years was suddenly "discovered" by the Japanese Empire in 1905?? LOLOLOL. I suppose there were no records to attest to fact that Korea was already claimed by Koreans until 1909 by that warped logic. It's like a thief steals your dog and then claims you don't have purchase receipts so its his.

The island in question can be seen on a clear day from Ullungdo, since the distance is only about 65 miles apart. When the Japanese annexed the islet in 1905, the very first move out of a systematic plan to annex the entire Korea, the Korean officials immediately protested as soon as they got news of the annexation.

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/korean-objections-to-japans-1905-claim.html

As for the Korean protest show in front of Japanese embassy, it was more of a relaxed protest affair with singing and play performances. It involved far less people and was far more civilized than the crowd of Japanese mob, with rising flags marching through Shin Okabu, calling on "death to Koreans" - which happens at least five times a month for the last two years.

hkitagawa: "Japan doesn't care about this island"

That's what's called 'sour grapes'.

"...but they have to keep the same policy for all the islands."

Exactly, which means there is no issue at all and the islands belong to South Korea. They can't say one of the reasons for why Japan owns the Senkakus (administration) is suddenly not relevant when it comes to Dokdo.

didn't abe just say that china has disputes with everyone?...not japan right? because that would be hypocritical

chucky3176

The island in question can be seen on a clear day from Ullungdo, since the distance is only about 65 miles apart.

So Chucky you can see beyond the horizon because at sea level because at sea level you can only see about 5Km and even from a sky scrapper you can only see 16Km.

To see beyond 100Km you'll need to be at altitude of more than 1500m.

Compeletey busted.

SamuraiBlue, look at the photo of the islet from Ullungdo. You can clearly see the islets yourself.

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/

Here's another picture

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/dokdo-from-ulleungdo3.jpg

SamuraiBlue: "To see beyond 100Km you'll need to be at altitude of more than 1500m."

So explain how you can see Taiwan from Yonaguni Island in Okinawa, a distance of 111 km, on a nice day (from the shore of the island -- or the horizon, if you like).

"Don't really need to see whatever you are claiming since Physics do not lie although I can't really say the same for some wacky Korean Fanatic who makes these wild claims."

So what do you call people like yourself who are just plain wrong? :) Keep in mind you said "YOU'LL need to be at (an) altitude of more than 1500".

So, sorry, but it's not chucky making 'wild claims' or saying people who do so must be 'wacky Koreans'.

In any case, it doesn't change the facts that, whether you're wrong or not about being able to see an island 100km away, the islands in question on this thread are South Korean. Close your eyes if that helps you see what you like, the truth will not change just because you choose not to see it.

cramp: "didn't abe just say that china has disputes with everyone?...not japan right? because that would be hypocritical"

Exactly. I wonder what Abe and/or others would say if the SK President took the opportunity to make a speech like his against China in the US using Dokdo instead of what Abe said not to test Japan's sovereignty in regards to the Senkakus?

Smithy

The highest peak on Taiwan is nearly 4,000 meters(3,952m). Even if you can see Taiwan from Yonaguni the oposite is not possible. It's plain physics.

The reason why the Koreans place such heavy emphasis on whether it can be seen from Ullungdo island is because most of their historical claim is based on this fact which can only be false based on science. Beyond this there is only the Syngman Rhee Line　which is completely is completely illegal under international law and treaties.

BTw, the fact that Dokdo is visible from Ullungdo is a matter of fact that's useful for rebutting and illustrating the hilarity of Japanese Empire's 1905 terra nullis claim. Think about it. What are the chances that Koreans or Japanese for that matter would leave an island within eye sight "unclaimed" through 5 thousand years of unrecorded history? This isn't central to Korean claims over Dokdo which is based on history of administration of territory. It is true that both Korea and Japan has laid claims over the islands but records of dispute and resolution are even still recorded in Korea's favor. That's why the crux of Japanese claims over the islands are the 1905 terra nullis claim as laid out by Japanese government's Takeshima website.

Why cant the countries share the islands.. or make them independent, neutral.. or play a soccer match and winner take all.

A poster named Gerry_Bevers wrote before on JT and referred to a Korean historical document of early 18th century in which some islets were described as being visible to the east of Ulleungdo and lying on the border of Japanese territory. 鬱陵之東 島嶼相望 接于倭境 So being visible was not something for them to claim territories but rather in their case to recognize borders. And for our case it's something to cool it and get our heads together.

Oh really? Then why did the Koreans protest when Japan annexe the islet in 1905?

<

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/korean-objections-to-japans-1905-claim.html>

If Koreans had thought that they incorporated the islets into Ulleungdo by an administrative directive earlier than Japan, they should have just presented it to Japan as an evidence for their territorial rights while maintaining the original name of the islets as described in the directive when they knew that Japan incorporated the islets into Shimane. It's something to be settled with rather matter-of-factly or to be put to mediation for peaceful settlement instead of being an endless source of ill feeling.

nigeboy, this site lays down documents showing Korea's objections at that time to Japan's act of aggressions over the island.

Yep. Very weak considering the fact that it basically reconfirms that the 1900 ordinance did not include Takeshima as confirmed by their own government.

You should know Japan's arguments if you're going to defend them. There are literally scores of historical documents that show both Korea and Japan laying claims to the islets. Although more of these maps including Japanese maps show "Takeshima" falling under Korea administration during WWII the real crux of Japanese claims to the islets is that it claimed the islands without protest from Korea in 1905.

The downright fantastical arguments of the pro-Japanese position being presented even in this comments section is illustrative of the nature of the dispute that outsiders to the Korea/Japan dynamic or uninformed Koreans/Japanese for that matter, are not aware of. In that bizarro world, photographs showing Dokdo from Ullungdo is fake, countless Koreans who have hike on Ullungdo to see Dokdo are liars not to mention the thousands of years of Koreans who have fished the islands from Ullungdo are all fake. And somehow claims and documents made in context of illegal Japanese imperial overtures are magically valid in 2013. I suppose Korea was also unclaimed by Koreans too in 1909 when Japan "discovered" it 4 years after it "discovered" Dokdo.

Dokdo are liars not to mention the thousands of years of Koreans who have fished the islands from Ullungdo are all fake.

Except for the inconvenient fact that Joseun Dynasty implemented a empty island policy for 460 years.

In any case, an activity of a private person(i.e. fishermen) does not constitute soverignty. The central determination of soverignty is which state exercized effective control first. Therefore, Korea fails miserably in this regard.

"Empty Island Policy" LOL. Nice one! You have a future in fiction!