Philippines president to raise China sea dispute with Japan

Aquino will get cold shoulder or Japan may seek help from philippines.

The Chinese marines firing warning shotsat Philpino fishermen were 'reasonable', that country has no satellites in space! And so does the negotiating with Vietnam.

Japan may seek help from the Phils? I doubt it. If ever it would be mutual since China's soaring to No. 2 and its extra territorial aggresiveness is a problem for both. Here's hoping for peace and cooperation for Asians and the world over.

China could take one of us out but not all of us. Their nukes will be worthless in any fight. Let the other nuke bearing nations they can not use them without committing suicide.

"Just like the U.S., Japan is also a stakeholder in the quest for peace and stability in the (South China Sea). So this is a matter of common interest to the two countries," Coloma said in a statement to AFP.

Sounds like cheap sucking up. One should be careful with guys like that.

Let me make it clear what I have bsaid before, you guys need to set up something similar to NATO in Asia and Pacific.

Maybe it should be called smothing like Asia Pacific Treaty Organization (APTO) inviting Philippine, Vietnam, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and USA. Be realistic one country cannot defend herself alone against China when it comes to shove.

I agree with @globalwatcher. But with China instead of interfering USA. And of course with one billion people and the worlds 2nd largest economy, China should be the interim head.

I am very happy to see that President Aquino is going to take up this issue with PM Noda. All leaders that border the South China Sea need to get together and put China in a corner on this issue and work as one.

Here are some facts on the issue.

China signed and ratified the 1982 UN convention on the Law of the Sea which stipulates that a country’s (EEZs) extends from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources.

But China has largely and abusively ignored the Law of the Sea as it pertains to the South China Sea.

Because of the 1995 Mischief Reef, (130 natuical miles off the Philippine coastline/594 off the China coastline) where China built an installation on the reef, there was a brief skirmish between China and the Philippines. China was shocked when ASEAN condemned China for the installation and the incident. China learned from this and now refuses to discuss maritime/territorial issue with ASEAN. ASEAN has tried to discuss this issue with China before but has always been rebuffed by the Chinese leaders who have continuously insisted on having bilateral discussions with each and every country on the issue, so it can bully the smaller nations into agreeing to its own desires.

If you look at a map the Parcel Island are within the 200 nautical miles of China's exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which includes the seabed resources within that sphere from the shoreline. This is significant because the country who has sovereignty over the islands would also own the natural resources in the surrounding area. The untapped oil and gas deposits surrounding the islands make them geopolitically significant. But they are also in Vietnam’s EEZ.

AS for the Spratyl Islands they are more than 546 nautical miles off China’s baseline, but only 112 nautictal miles off of the baseline of the Philippines. Therefore should have no rights to them at all and S.I. belong to the Philippines.

The claims on the South China does not stop there. China claims 75 % of the South China Sea. If you look at what China says is hers you will be surprised to learn that she has conflicts with Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei, Vietnam and Taiwan. China has created an arbitrary boundary that extends all the way down to Malaysai’s coastline (919 nautical miles away from China’s baseline) and all the way up its, Brunei and the Philippines coast Lines which means those three countries have no 2oo nautical mile EEZ. Furthermore, the UNICLOS 200 nautical mile EEZ zone fairly sanctions off sections of the South China Sea to each and every country in it. China, which signed and ratified this only ignores it.

China is not only making “friends” in the South China Sea but is also flexing her muscles and have a maritime influence in the Indian Ocean as well. This has led India to worry. It has tried to go “tit for tat” with China and has started to look into exploration off the coast of Vietnam. Vietnam has agreed but the Chinese have warned both countries not to do such a thing and that it does not want foreign entities to become involved in the South China Sea. Sound a bit hypocritical, doesn’t it?

What needs to happen is for all ASEAN countries to agree and unite against China and make her follow the UNICLOS, which she signed and ratified and not deal with her individually which can only be advantageous to China and NOONE else. I hope that the presidents visit will get other countries to once and for all get China it act fair and responsibly.

@Asagoe. China as the interim head? Are you kidding me here? China has enough influence in Asia and Africa. The Asia Pacific Treaty Orginization that globalwatcher spoke of would be to counter CHINA. China's influence and bullying in Asia is why Asian countries would need to unite. Not against the USA. If countries like China and North Korea would calm down, act fair and responsibly and stop saber rattling thwn there would be absolutely no need for the USA to even have a base anywhere in Asia.

A Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) did exist from 1954-1977. SEATO's members included Australia, France, New Zealand, Pakistan (including East Pakistan, now Bangladesh), the Philippines, Thailand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

How about calling back the U.S. military? As I remember, China begun being agressive over the South China sea just after the U.S. military left Philippine. Is it impossible? The U.S. is also concern about China's increasing military force. I don't think Japan can support them over this problem.

why always china's name appeared? did you all hate the chinese? or envy them? mind you own country first before criticised othe nation. i dont think filipino is the best nation. your own country also in a mess!

We have to live with China as number one economy and superpower in the near future. It is better to join them and influence the future of the Alliance, than to squashed like an ant under a giant thumb. It will work out fine, if China can promise us all automatous zones under Chinas leadership. Think of the trade benefits, social benefits and security benefits!

I love Yuri Otanis comments! The Philippines and China, along with Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam, have conflicting claims to all or parts of the South China Sea. Our amigos in Beijing need to start getting their heads out from where the sun does not shine. China NEEDS to realize that the world only likes China for its cheap products, but not too cheap, and if the Chinese want the US NAVY back in SUBIC BAY PI, keep on pushing the Filipinos and you will see a newer and better US NAVY back in full force in the Philippines, IMHO.

This is hypocrisy. Philippine president visited China recently but didn't raise concern about this territorial (Spratly) dispute. Why raise it with Japan now on his forthcoming visit here?

I think the right thing to do is for the U.S. to take sides with China.

I don't want to see Japan instigating WWIII with petty island disputes. Both Japan and the Phillipines need to .....well....clam it. You're in no position to worry about China. China is doing just fine.

American children are not being born into this world to die for Japanese petty arguments with a giant like China. If China is building up it's military it's not cause of America's stance. It's because Japanese today seem to have the mindset that they displayed prior to WWII.

Japan has invaded China, China has never invaded Japan. Any military buildup by China shows off their borrowed technology and their protective stance as a nation.

Japan might be scared of this buildup and I can certainly understand why considering the awful things you've done to them in the past. Japan has too many enemies. NK, China, Russia. It it goes down I just hope America takes a step back like Japan did in the Iraq war.

The Iraq war was wrong of the U.S. but the war on terrorism is real and Japan won't even ride out to give American ships any gas. Yeah, I remember the protests and Diet sessions to end support of the U.S. Japanese forces were stationed so far back during the Iraq war they got their information from the newspaper. When Japan is in trouble we were right there, 3/11. Where's the reciprocity?

As far as The Philippines go. The U.S used to be there. I remember being sent down there to Olongapo after Mt. Pinatubo erupted. We helped them out. Then the base was removed. They act like they don't know the U.S. anymore. All these Filipino women want tis their entertainment visas back. That's why they kiss up to Japanese politicians.

@kukuchai

why always china's name appeared? did you all hate the chinese? or envy them? mind you own country first before criticised othe nation. i dont think filipino is the best nation. your own country also in a mess!

Nobody hates China. Just nobody likes how CHIna is conducting itself in Asian and Africa. Please read what I wrote above and you might understand why China is always mentioned as being a bully and a country that does not follow the rules. Even some of the rules that China has signed and ratified as well. China and Chinese need to understand that China is not a planet, it is merely a country and should not just take and bully.

Little China has quietly gotten into Africa and has taken advantage of the Africans and is robbing Africa of its vast wealth. It has stealthy gone into the Indian Ocean and set up installations here and there to monitor and control it, which is made India very wary of its goals there. It has bullied smaller southeast Asian countries into occupying 75% of the South China Sea, reaching far into other countries EEZ's. That needs to stop and the world needs to wake up and look at the Giant Panda that is threatening security in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. That is the problem kukuchai. Not jealousy. Fear and apprehension. China is not going to be looked at as a balancing power but as the bully on the playground.

Comments from some poster indicates both the nationality of the Posters. CHINESE. and the ultranationalist stance. If anyone is pushing Asia into war it is the Ultranationalist elements of the Chinese government amply supported by paid Internet posters and trolls.

troyinjapan

Nobody hates China. Just nobody likes how CHIna is conducting itself in Asian and Africa. Please read what I wrote above and you might understand why China is always mentioned as being a bully and a country that does not follow the rules. Even some of the rules that China has signed and ratified as well. China and Chinese need to understand that China is not a planet, it is merely a country and should not just take and bully.

Troy, l must thank you for the best laugh l have had in ages. This statement is a crack up, substitute the word Japan for China and it would be equally fitting. It has highlighted one thing the mentality of Asian nations each believes the other is being a bully, or shortsighted, ultra nationalist. How many rules that Japan has signed over the years has it found loopholes in, how many times have people complained that Japan feels the world revolves around it. Until these problems are sorted then there is no hope to resolve the bigger issues

@Squipapig I am happy i could provided you with a chuckle. As you said you can substitute the word Japan for China and it would be equally fitting. You could also throw in the USA and a whole slew of other countries in there as well, but never has there been a more dangerous country in recent times. A country whose policies in Africa are complained about by many Africans. While every other country is in Africa trying to help the Africans, China is the only one there with the sole purpose of exploiting Africa for its natural resources. Selling weapons to Africans in shiploads while not questioning one bit.

It is pretty much taken over the South China Sea and ignored the convention that it signed as a member of the U.N. These abuses of power and bullying in the South China Sea go ignored by most, mostly because of ignorance to the subject and or a lack of interest. I bet if this issue was in Europe or North America the UN would be in full session.

China's abuses and Japan's are completely different in scale. China's threatens the whole of Asia and Africa. Japan's loopholes that it has found and used are quite small in comparison and are not as damaging.

Why is it that so far it is only Japan in Asia that has had the guts to take on the western institutions (military, international courts etc)? Why are the Asian nations running around doing old-style power games, setting up intrigues, covered threats, refusing outside impartiality to negotiate? Grow up, Asia.

@Squidpig Let's not ignore reality though. Every country is guilty of finding loopholes and exploiting them for their own benefits. But China is a horse of a much larger size when it comes to this.. It is guilty of bullying all throughout Asia. And it is not only Southeast Asian countries that this scares but, India, Australia, Europe and North American ones as well.

The Philippines accused Chinese troops of firing warning shots against Filipino fishermen, laying buoys and markers in its territory and harassing a Philippine-sanctioned oil exploration vessel.

All of this mess only about OIL, Spratly Islands should under ASEAN and regard as joint ownership.

@SPIDAPIG24. How about that? Sorry about that. It was not intentional. My apologies.

Aalaml999 I like your suggestion very much. But I don't think the Filipinos would like that very much and it might not be fair to them, But still I like the idea very much. Have conflict? Even better turn it into international waters or something along those lines and make it illegal for any country to gain from it. Only problem with that idea is that smaller counties like the Philippines would suffer.

Aakmai999 Yeah, you are right. All this about oil. Many years ago nobody cared anything about the area. For thousands of years people used the sea without fighting over it. Discovery of oil and great natural resources changed all that and greed has now come into play. Too bad they can't just share it, but I still believe this is because of China's continuing greed to suck what it can dry.

troyinjapan Sep. 20, 2011 - 12:28PM JST. What needs to happen is for all ASEAN countries to agree and unite against China and make her follow the UNICLOS, which she signed and ratified and not deal with her individually which can only be advantageous to China and NOONE else. I hope that the presidents visit will get other countries to once and for all get China it act fair and responsibly.

I think, this is how it should be done, if there is any doing to be done at all. troyinjapan, by the way, thank you for your informative posts. I don't always agree with your stance on China, but I really like the way you argue.

CrazyJoe Sep. 20, 2011 - 12:36PM JST. A Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) did exist from 1954-1977. SEATO's members included Australia, France, New Zealand, Pakistan (including East Pakistan, now Bangladesh), the Philippines, Thailand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

zichiSep. 20, 2011 - 01:28PM JST. In 20 years time, India will be the No1 economy.

This is, pretty much, to what it boils down. The Asian NATO should not include France, the UK or Pakistan, and instead should include India and South Korea among others if it wants to survive. This is not a small feat, considering territorial and other disputes between S. Korea and Japan, and the neutrality status of India.

Gilberto Nino Yanguas MoriSep. 20, 2011 - 01:50PM JST. This is hypocrisy. Philippine president visited China recently but didn't raise concern about this territorial (Spratly) dispute. Why raise it with Japan now on his forthcoming visit here?

NetNinjaSep. 20, 2011 - 02:20PM JST. ... As far as The Philippines go. The U.S used to be there. I remember being sent down there to Olongapo after Mt. Pinatubo erupted. We helped them out. Then the base was removed. They act like they don't know the U.S. anymore. ...

This is exactly what I was talking about. They are doing a cheap sucking up to Japanese government. Such kissing ups are usually followed by asking for huge favors. Only a short sighted fool wouldn't see that.

jasperandySep. 20, 2011 - 02:48PM JST. Comments from some poster indicates both the nationality of the Posters. CHINESE.

This is hardly relevant. There is nothing wrong to be Chinese and defend China's stance. Take an example from troyinjapan of how one should argue.

The japanese government will tells Aquino3 that how heavy the slap was on the face of Naoto Kan last year!

@Konsta Thanks for the complements. I also like what you bring to the thread as well. No, we can't always agree. You also bring facts instead of heated emotional outbursts of nationalism to the thread which is what is needed as well.

I know I may seem like I am anti-China, but not really. I just want China to stop being deceitful and taking advantage of its status and using that status to get things done that are less than savory. I know that all countries are guilty of that. For now it is China's turn to be as such. But the negative impact that I see from China on two continents is just a little too much to turn my attention from. I think a lot of it is simply due to ignorance on the part of westerners and Japanese as well. I think that most CHinese don't understand what their governments are doing as well. Now, the problems are getting bigger and China finds it more and more difficult to hide its actions, but also has the power to do just what it wants while we focus our attention else where. I just wish people would wake up.

@jasperandy

Comments from some poster indicates both the nationality of the Posters. CHINESE. and the ultranationalist stance. If anyone is pushing Asia into war it is the Ultranationalist elements of the Chinese government amply supported by paid Internet posters and trolls.

I agree with you on some of this. There are some posters who are really radically pro-Chinese and I have wondered if they were paid or what and it is easy to see their nationality. I mean some of the things that they have written is pretty shocking and often gets taken down fairly early by the JT Moderators. But I wouldn't call them "trolls". That is not cool. I would just call them misinformed patriots of China. But the same could be said for a lot of posters. Sometimes it is easy to understand if someone is American, Japanese and so on.

Anyway, I wish we could have many more facts on this issue. A lot more. Research before posting is always good. It helps everyone understand things that they might not have known, whereas heated emotional outburst does little.

Peace

@jasperandy All though I have been sometimes worse in my wording which was directed at another poster. Sorry about that. You know who you are. LOL.

I would be hypocritical if i didn't admit that.

To be honest is the only way to win.

Where's the leverage? There's no hegemony paradigm, like in the case of how Japan has traditionally dealt with China and Korea. You have to let let the cards fall, so to speak. China will not cede its territorial waters to any country. Nothing can be done.

Nippon Nation. As of now you are right, China will never cede any of its arbitrarily concocted territorial waters to any country. But if Asian countries will unite and form a union to keep China in check than China will realize that it has a lot to lose economically if it keeps pulling out the "bully" card. If Asian countries stand up and expose China for what its doing in Asia than the rest of the world might follow suit. Famous people will come out and there will be a "Don't Buy From China" push. Asia is where it might start but it will be picked up by North Americans and Europe will follow. China will have no choice but to clean up its image. It will realize that selling its goods to the world makes it a lot more money than occupying most of the S.C.S and setting up outposts throughout the Indian ocean and its less than reputable dealings in Africa while so many other countries are trying to repair Africa. (I think that was a run-on sentence. Sorry) I might be wrong but it has to start somewhere soon. And what better place than Asia. Asia has the most at stake at the moment and having an even more stronger China is just going to do it more damage than has already taken place. I might be wrong about how to go about it, but it is something to think about.

Just want to add that Phillipine kiched US bases out many years ago. There are no more US bases to protect them. FYI

I think alot of posters' fears would be allayed if China became a democracy. At the same time, don't believe that that will solve everything if they did. Look at South Korea and Japan or Russia and Japan. There will still be conflict. The U.S. is fortunate that they expanded from their east to west coast under the mandate of manifest destiny and is free of a panoply of regional conflicts like Europe and Asia. I think everyone's playing up China's rise a little too much. The U.S. outclasses China in its weaponry and will bomb them back to the stone age. However, it's unreasonable to expect a country of China's size and history and economy not to have a equally proportional military.

The problem is if india continues provoking China, history has told us esclation of Sino-Indian war is inevitable. U.S. uses India and Southeast Asian countries to test the will of China in defending integrity of it’s country. Without the backing of U.S., I doubt the regional countries won’t have the gut to do this. All these events occur recently after U.S. is now pay attention to Asia at the end of Iraq war. The disputes can be settled peacefully. Most likely, China and Vietnam can work out their differences. I do not see any chance with India. Indians never compromise. There is no way to negotiate with India.

troyinjapanSep. 21, 2011 - 12:14AM JST. If Asian countries stand up and expose China for what its doing in Asia than the rest of the world might follow suit. Famous people will come out and there will be a "Don't Buy From China" push. Asia is where it might start but it will be picked up by North Americans and Europe will follow. China will have no choice but to clean up its image.

Don't Buy from China"? How ridiculous. Almost half of the U.S. trade deficient of over $200 billion is a direct result of U.S. corporations investing in manufacturing in China for their excessive profit. Are you going to tell the U.S. and European consumers to stop buying Apple I-Phone, I-Pad, or any Apple products? HP, Intel, Walmart,etc, all the major companies export their manufactured products to rest of the world. Even Toyota is manufacturing their engine, battery and other components for Prius and other cars in China. There is over 20,000 Japanese companies operating inside China, and are you going to tell the Japanese and U.S. consumers to not buy these Japanese products because they are imported from China?

Interesting. According to various reports I read, Phillipines refused a bi-lateral discussions with China on this issue recently, preferring to bring this matter to International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea and/or ASEAN summits.

Vietnam, which in the past were enemies with U.S., had U.S.S George Washington station near the coast of Vietnam after three days in which China test ran their first aircraft carrier. Not only that, during some time in August, both Vietnam and U.S. conducted joint military exercize under protest from China. India has also participated in joint exercize with Vietnam this past July. Now, there is report that Vietnam and India are considering joing gas development in South China Sea without China.

sfjp330, Yes, I do understand how ridiculous it might sound.

But I don't see India provoking China. I see it the other way around. China setting up satellites in the Indian Ocean has the Indians quite nervous. Now, this can hardly be considered "neighborly. Is it just monitoring traffic, hoping to control sea lanes or what? That is what is bothering a lot of people.

U.S. uses India and Southeast Asian countries to test the will of China in defending integrity of it's country. I don't see that either. Please educate me on that one. I do see China using Burma and Pakistan if I am not wrong to test the integrity of India. Once again, "Not too neighborly" is it?

"Don't Buy From China"? How Ridiculous. Yes, I can hear you laughing from here and it does sound ridiculous under the current circumstances. BUt I do hear people talking about it. And the more people talk the more chance for action there is. Yes, we are addicted to cheaply made Chinese products. Yep, no argument there. And yes, there are thousands of companies who are manufacturing in China, so we have pretty much given China everything it needs to become the school yard bully. Our companies went after the short term profit, instead of the long term gain.

But China's actions recently are gaining more and more well-earned negative attention in the media. I see it as just a matter of time before consumers start to become a little more aware of who is producing in China, how there are no jobs because manufacturing is not done in their own countries anymore but in a country that is a bully, violates human rights up the kazoo and copies everything it can without paying royalties whatsoever and starts to demand more and more from their governments to bring back manufacturing jobs. I know it sounds ridiculous to you, but it has strong possibilities in the current climate.

Thanks NiIgelboy for the info:

According to various reports I read, Phillipines refused a bi-lateral discussions with China on this issue recently, preferring to bring this matter to International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea and/or ASEAN summits.

That is good news and exactly what the Phillipines should be doing. Only problem is that China will rebuff anyone who tries to bring this issue up at ASEAN as it has in the past and as far as the UN is concerned, we all know who is a permanent member there, so it might not get much in the way of help there. But I am very hopeful. ASEAN must understand that it has to stand up to China unless it just wants to become China's puppet, if it is not already.

in August, both Vietnam and U.S. conducted joint military exercize I liked that. Old enemies joining together for a common good. hahahahahaha This surely wouldn't be the case if China had not been so stingy when it came to the South China Sea. I think Vietnam bight be telling China, "Hey, we can go the other way".

Now, there is report that Vietnam and India are considering joing gas development in South China Sea without China. Yeah, I saw that, too, but I also read somewhere that China pitched a temper tantrum and the idea was put on hold. China said it doesn't want countries from outside the South China Sea drilling in its waters. (It arbitrarily claims 75& of the area.) I guess it can go into the Indian ocean and set up satellites all around it and India can just lump it! How generous of China.

Nigelboy, if you know of any new developments, please keep us informed.

The sad part about it is that China has a noose around the world's neck. We need to learn from this lesson to not put all of our eggs in one basket. China is a huge market and companies want to make a lot of money selling in it. But it is also the world's manufacturer. It has both sides of the economic world. This is dangerous.

You know what, everything makes sense when you point at China being the bully-it is kinda obvious. But as soon as you start to compare political ideals between Japan and China, or Phillipines, or India or even the US, everything starts to turn grey. Why? Because all you who have knowledge on the political background are allowing your personal idealogies on population and the one-child policy to have bearing on who or which country is 'correct'. You dont see it that way, and you lay it all on the different countries failures/leanings/movements. But I tell ya, I can read what y'all are saying, or more, not saying. And it is blinding you to make a proper decisive move about China's bullying. The Chinese themeselves understand that the one-child policy, is not normal of China's spirit. So I am not attacking China, but they will keep plugging the economical route on y'all, until you quit deceiving yourself. And you who deceive yourself with population issues, or whatever personal agenda, that pulls at your heart to not see the truth about population and it's pack of lies are having the wool pulled over your eyes. Id be willing to read more on China and the South Sea, if any one of you would go and study properly population trends and propaganda.

@Illsayit Okay I'll say it. What did you say? LOL