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Protectionist policies such as the withdrawal from TPP and renegotiation of NAFTA will have a negative impact on the global economy including Japan's. These policies only enhance protectionist and pop

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Akio Mimura, head of the Japan Chamber of Commerce and Industry, referring to new U.S. President Donald Trump's economic policies. (AP)

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So, how has global growth helped the thousands and thousands of US factory workers sacked as their jobs went to other parts of the world?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Every lost factory job in America was lost because AMERICAN companies don't care about Americans so they ordered products from somewhere else to get them cheaper so they could make more money.

And, the military arms industries snatched trillions of dollars from their friends in Congress to fight decades of useless wars, killing millions in other countries and chewing up tens of thousands of Americans who are either dead or missing limbs and facing horrible lives because they fell for the flag waving crap. No one in the military industry truly cares about any of the dead.

All those trillions of dollars could have improved the US infrastructure, built modern, efficient factories and trained workers for 21st century jobs.

Go ahead and make everything in the US. You'll get to see what high inflation and high unemployment is like. My generation remembers it during the 1970's.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

It will not just be the trading architecture, all the world institutions and agreements will collapse soon. Now there is a realisation that there really is nothing upholding political, social or economic systems - no morality, no believable theories or models, no God, nothing but ideology (usually of the shoutiest mouth) - we come to the endgame of all against all, beggar your neighbour and outright self-interest and naked power. Once one system fails there will be enormous and devastating knock-on effects. This probably began when the US under Bush Jr decisively and openly eschewed and violated human rights and gave the world pause to clearly believe that the US just hypocritically used the promotion of liberal principles (freedom, democracy, free markets, etc) as an unsettling ideology in pursuit of self-interest. With Trump there are no principles, only self-interest. It's too obvious how this will pan out. Even some erstwhile Trump supporters must be able to see it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Go ahead and make everything in the US. You'll get to see what high inflation and high unemployment is like. My generation remembers it during the 1970's.

I'm sure you remember it, as I do, but you seem to not put the blame where it belongs. Most of the 70's inflation was caused by Nixon taking our debtor nation off the gold standard reducing the value of the Petrodollar. The oil rich Gulf nations were not happy and oil prices skyrocketed. Since the US was dependent on Gulf oil for their cars and tennis shoes, inflation AND unemployment (strange) went into double digits.

I agree that many large US corporations don't give a crap about the nation. But it has little to do with the stagflation of the 70's.

As far as what Akio Miura is talking about, he's just fear mongering and don't want to give up his brown bag business.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I fully expect a trade war/isolationist trade policy will cause inflation and job loses like that era, but I didn't mean to infer the causes would be the same.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

You reap what you sow. Japan has been the master of protectionism, so to come now and say this crap is just pure hypocracy by Mr. Mimura

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Reap what you sow? I don't think you've thought about this very deeply.

Japan direct investment outside Japan has exceeded $100 billion per year for the last five years.

Japanese companies invest 8 times more in the US than the US companies invest in Japan.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

So, how has global growth helped the thousands and thousands of US factory workers sacked as their jobs went to other parts of the world?

It has helped one-fifth of the world rise out of poverty, more than 2 billion people.

Globalization is a balancing act. Socialists have long supported the redistribution of wealth from the haves to the have nots. On a global scale, developed countries are the haves, and make up the top one percent, and most of the rest of the world are have nots, and languish in poverty. It is rather obvious that for the quality of life to improve in developing countries, we are going to see the quality of life somewhat decline in developed countries, at least according to the socialist maxim.

The problem with free trade is that there is no such thing. As Roosevelt himself said around the time of the great depression "it is not so much that free market capitalism has failed, but that it has never been tried." Few countries in the world have anything resembling free trade, as industries have the money to lobby for regulations which protect them and their profits from competition. But as a rule, countries with less regulated trade are more prosperous than countries where trade is heavily regulated.

One thing all developing countries have in common is heavy tariffs and extensive trade rules and regulations. Countries with the lowest restrictions to trade are places like Switzerland, Singapore, Hong Kong, and America. Places with the heaviest restrictions are all of latin America, Africa, and southern Europe.

Trump is being rather foolish in regards to trade. It seems he is trying the approach Japan has taken, a direction which has led Japan to economic decline, population decline, with each generation borrowing heavily from the next to keep the economy from collapsing. The balance of these debts has increased to dangerous levels.

Trump should be doing the opposite, he should completely abolish all trade barriers, but allow the US to close it's market to any country which manipulates it's currency to take advantage.

The currency markets compensate for inequalities in the prices of labor and regulation. A county with a low cost of labor acquires a great deal of foreign currency, this currency must be exchanged in order to import more materials, or to buy foreign goods. The market drives up the value of the currency, eventually equalizing labor costs. Japan manipulated it's currency for decades to keep Japanese goods cheap, and acquired vast reserves of foreign currency not as safety net, or to become a creditor nation, but to keep this foreign currency out of the market, which also helped keep the yen weak.

Free trade can benefit everybody so long as governments keep their hands off the people's currency. But this is unlikely in a deflationary era when government debts are staggeringly heavy, and where it has become necessary in some countries (like Japan and Europe) to pay state debts by printing money.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Reap what you sow? I don't think you've thought about this very deeply.

You thought wrong.

Japan direct investment outside Japan has exceeded $100 billion per year for the last five years. Japanese companies invest 8 times more in the US than the US companies invest in Japan.

So what? We're not talking about investment. That has nothing to do with trade. We're talking about protectionism such as tariffs and taxes levied on foreign products to give a country a trade advantage. In that sense, Japan is protectionist.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It has lots to do with trade, Those Japanese factories employ people and also export product from those countries. Hell, Japanese car factories in the US export more cars from the US to other countries than are imported from Japan into the US.

Should I explain how that affects trade or do you think you can figure it out with any help?

The US is just as protectionist. The US has had a tariff on imported cars for a long time. Pickup trucks have a 50% tariff. Japan has no tariff on cars or trucks. Can you explain how that makes Japan "protectionist?"

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It has lots to do with trade, Those Japanese factories employ people and also export product from those countries.

Taking the profits back to Japan.

Hell, Japanese car factories in the US export more cars from the US to other countries than are imported from Japan into the US.

Such a blanket statement shows you know nothing about the car industry here. My wife used to work in the car industry. That above statement of yours is just plain incorrect.

Should I explain how that affects trade or do you think you can figure it out with any help?

Don't bother explaining anything please. Your statements are so full of inaccuracies I wouldn't know where to start correcting them.

The US is just as protectionist. The US has had a tariff on imported cars for a long time. Pickup trucks have a 50% tariff. Japan has no tariff on cars or trucks. Can you explain how that makes Japan "protectionist?"

Japan doesn't need tarrifs on cars because there are a million ways to discourage people buying cars. example, MANY parking spaces will not allow a foreign car. that's just one example of many.

But why just talk about cars? Trade protectionism doesn't begin and end with cars. You are very conveniently forgetting the agricultual protectionism that Japan is so famous for.

And when it comes to the TPP, the reason it was never ratified was because when Japan entered, they essentially renegociated the whole to suit them. So if Japan is crying now about the lost TPP, they have themselves to blame.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So, how has global growth helped the thousands and thousands of US factory workers sacked as their jobs went to other parts of the world?

Blame American companies for choosing to go into other places. Blame the US government for spending uncontrollably in their military. Blame the administration, previous and current, that appoints swamp things in the White House that caused or will cause yet another financial crisis. Heck, blame the people who elect these guys. But don't blame the rest of the world for your own problems America.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The more isolationist the US becomes, the fewer countries will be taken down with it when it implodes. US isolationism is a good thing. If we get our act together, the world can get along quite nicely without the US, which is rapidly shrinking in importance (shown by the Trump election).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

the world can get along quite nicely without the US, which is rapidly shrinking in importance (shown by the Trump election).

I think that was his idea. So your just being a negative nanny by stating what Trump has already said what he wants to do.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

My wife used to work in the car industry.

Really? What did she do, exactly? Since this seems to imply this makes you the authority on car trade

Japan doesn't need tarrifs on cars because there are a million ways to discourage people buying cars.

Please share with us on these million ways. Because German makers are not complaining about the Japanese market. Just check the roads. Mercedes is loving Japan, especially.

You are very conveniently forgetting the agricultual protectionism that Japan is so famous for.

Are you sure? When I go buy garlic cloves I can find ones from China much cheaper than Japan's (just an example).

We are eagerly waiting for the explanation on the million ways Japan restricts American car in Japan but for some reason the German makers are not complaining.

MANY parking spaces will not allow a foreign car

Does it have some IC chip that detects foreign car and blocks it? Because I see lots of German ones parked in all sorts of parking spots.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If we get our act together, the world can get along quite nicely without the US,

It's the first part that's tricky. The US is still over 20% of the global economy, with only 5% of the global population. If other countries could "get their act together," they likely already would have. Heck, even the USA can't get its act together, hence its decline in many areas.

Countries can't get their act together because of entrenched bureaucracies, corruption and a short-sighted and misinformed populace. Sounds familiar almost wherever one lives.

So the economy will tank (with or without Trump, but he makes a convenient scapegoat). And the people will ask the very government that tanked the economy to do yet more. And they will. And it will get worse. Until people wake up and see that the government is the problem.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Funny a Japanese official would say that, given that Japan is the most protectionist nation on Earth.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The US is just as protectionist. when it comes to auto manufacture no country gives more tax breaks, subsidies to this industry than the US. Just look at Tesla in Nevada, tax-free for ten years, saving about $1.2billion over 20yrs. Then you've got the GM Ford taxpayer bailouts about $80billion only of which 70billion was paid back. In April 2015 the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the program would end up costing the taxpayer about $14 billion. Nearly all new auto factories in the US are given huge tax-free incentives to setup in those states. For the US to point fingers at foreign manufacturers for unfair trade just make them look like hypocrites

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

ilovecoffee:

Funny a Japanese official would say that, given that Japan is the most protectionist nation on Earth.

It's called having your cake and eating it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan doesn't need tarrifs on cars because there are a million ways to discourage people buying cars. example, MANY parking spaces will not allow a foreign car. that's just one example of many.

The US market cars that fits the the US MARKET and does not match any other. Japanese cars built in the US tries to match the local market.How manyof the Big Three US marketed in the US specialized to match the Japanese market?

None!!

The reason why is the US Big Three auto makers are trying to market cars to Japan that are made in the US that exceeds the market demand. In other words they are trying to shed off surplus to other nations that they were not able to sell in the US.

How many does US or European auto manufacturers have even a knock off factory in Japan?

AGAIN NONE!!!!!

Don't you ever talk about any imaginary none tax barriers when import auto had never tried.

A car that doesn't fit Japanese parking space a trade barrier?

Build a car that fits the parking space to match the local market like any other decent manufacturer around the world!!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Almost all profits by subsidiaries of Japanese companies are not repatriated.

Japanese roads are filled with Mercedes, Audis, BMW's and Volkswagen's. There's are reasons and they are because of design sense, quality of manufacturing, support and service and common sense in selling a product outside of your own little world.

Instead of moving goalposts, smart people will say things like, "I didn't realize the tariff situation, I should study it more." Sticking to your guns when you're wrong is ignorance.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"Global growth??" For a handful of millionaires and billionaires, maybe. Not for anyone else.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Really? What did she do, exactly? Since this seems to imply this makes you the authority on car trade

She imported and exported cars to and from Japan. My cousin owns a car dealership in Oregon. We were thinking of importing cars to Japan. The tariffs were so high we eventually gave up on the business.

Are you sure? When I go buy garlic cloves I can find ones from China much cheaper than Japan's (just an example).

So because YOU can buy cheap garlic that makes Japan not protectionist??

Does it have some IC chip that detects foreign car and blocks it? Because I see lots of German ones parked in all sorts of parking spots.

Many parking spots will tell you when you make the contract that they will not allow foreign cars. The fact that YOU see a few mercedes in Tokyo does not mean anything.

We are eagerly waiting for the explanation on the million ways Japan restricts American car in Japan but for some reason the German makers are not complaining.

who told you they are not complaining?? Are you german??

Don't you ever talk about any imaginary none tax barriers when import auto had never tried.

I will talk about whatever I like. And again, protectionism is not just about cars. Open up the argricultural industry before you talk about exporting your cars!

A car that doesn't fit Japanese parking space a trade barrier?

More protectionist BS. MANY cars can fill japanese space. The Toyota estima is bigger than ALOT of foreign cars! We are not fooled.

Build a car that fits the parking space to match the local market like any other decent manufacturer around the world!!

What other non japanese manufactures are selling in Japan?? Why don't we see korean cars here! More protectionism.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

You are very conveniently forgetting the agricultual protectionism that Japan is so famous for.

It isn't only garlic, and it isn't only nishikat. Imported veggies tend on the whole to be cheaper than their local versions. Look in any supermarket. For cheap Japanese veggies (though still not necessarily cheaper than imported), shop seasonally at the local farmers' market (nokyo chokubaiten).

Japan's food sufficiency rate has been mostly below 40% since the turn of the century. (=60% or so is imported). How is that protectionism?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Almost all profits by subsidiaries of Japanese companies are not repatriated.

Do you have ANY proof of that??

Instead of moving goalposts, smart people will say things like, "I didn't realize the tariff situation, I should study it more."

You're right. you should study more. Here

In 2012, the Big Three sold only 13,637 cars in the Japanese market – less in a year than Japanese companies sold in a day in the United States. o Import penetration in the Japanese market is approximately 6%, the worst of any major OECD auto markets by far. o Japan’s auto sector produces 10 million cars for a 5 million car domestic market, depending on protection at home and exploitation abroad for its survival. Export pressure will increase as the population ages and shrinks. o Hyundai-Kia, Korea’s top automaker, pulled out of Japan in 2009 because of struggling sales. European auto companies oppose an FTA with Japan because they cannot sell cars there. o Japan is a sanctuary market – guaranteed market share allows Japanese companies to establish economies of scale and drive down costs, which is important to building a formidable export platform. o The tariff for autos is zero; Japan relies on deep, shifting, impenetrable non-tariff barriers to keep out foreign autos (e.g., currency manipulation and discriminatory taxes, standards, entry procedures, distribution structures, and zoning requirements). Repeated negotiations have failed to remove these barriers. o Japan has a long history of intervening in currency markets to weaken the yen to boost Japanese exports and dampen import competitiveness in Japan. The yen has depreciated 8% this year; 20% since last fall. U.S. free trade agreements have never before addressed currency. o Not a single foreign auto company has production in Japan because of the closed investment atmosphere

https://democrats-waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/TPP%20Japan%20U.S.%20Side-by-side_0.pdf

Sticking to your guns when you're wrong is ignorance.

Let's see you follow your own advice.

Japan's food sufficiency rate has been mostly below 40% since the turn of the century. (=60% or so is imported). How is that protectionism?

If they didn't import food, the country would starve. They are importing food, but the tarrifs on food imports is still quite high. The reason imported food is cheaper is because Japan tends to import food from countries whose currency is weaker than the yen's. But when it comes to developed nations, the tarrifs are high. That's why, for example, Beef and Butter are so expensive, but you can get Brazilian chicken for very cheap.

For cheap Japanese veggies (though still not necessarily cheaper than imported), shop seasonally at the local farmers' market (nokyo chokubaiten).

I actually go to the unmanned stands (chokubaijo). That's where you can get some really sweet deals on both fruits and veggies. Sometimes they even have oshinko for sale as well.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You say the tariff were too high, then quote that there are no tariffs, as I said...

Explain why European car are so popular in Japan if the atmosphere is so onerous.

Your whining quote is all about (and written by) the US manufacturers. How could you not know that US cars are not suited to Japan because of their size? For decades, US manufacturers didn't even make a right hand drive car. Nothing was modified to suit the Japanese market. Sheesh, even the radio frequency is different, no one in Japan has Imperial measurement tools, kmh is how speed is measured and all the knobs and buttons still in English.

No Americans would buy Japanese cars if they acted half as idiotic as the US manufacturers have done. Would you buy a right hand drive, speed in kmh and all instrumentation in Japanese?

The US trade representative, on behalf of US car manufacturers, DEMANDED that Toyota and other Japanese car companies stock and sell America cars. And you defend this incredible hypocrisy?

Please...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Explain why European car are so popular in Japan if the atmosphere is so onerous.

You didn't read the link i sent you. It explains that European cars ARE having problems in Japan.

European auto companies oppose an FTA with Japan because they cannot sell cars there. o Japan is a sanctuary market – guaranteed market share allows Japanese companies to establish economies of scale and drive down costs, which is important to building a formidable export platform.

Your whining quote is all about (and written by) the US manufacturers.

Again. COMPLETELY WRONG.

o Hyundai-Kia, Korea’s top automaker, pulled out of Japan in 2009 because of struggling sales. European auto companies oppose an FTA with Japan because they cannot sell cars there. o Japan is a sanctuary market – guaranteed market share allows Japanese companies to establish economies of scale and drive down costs, which is important to building a formidable export platform

https://democrats-waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/TPP%20Japan%20U.S.%20Side-by-side_0.pdf

It is obvious you didnt read the link I provided for you at all. Please read the link before making completely incorrect statements like you did above.

The US trade representative, on behalf of US car manufacturers, DEMANDED that Toyota and other Japanese car companies stock and sell America cars.

really? Where did he say that? can you give me PROOF? Waiting.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenharner/2014/05/20/japan-auto-imports-tpp-and-the-price-of-american-leadership/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I read the whole article. First of all, this was not an automotive dispute. It was a Keiretsu dispute. The premise was that if Japan wanted into the TPP that it had to open its entire Keiretsu market.

the U.S. premise (and implied threat) that Japan’s entire keiretsu structure--one of the foundations of its economy, and indeed, its society--should become part of the TPP negotiations.

This is both from your article and from wikipedia Keiretsu.

This was about Japanese protectionism, and what the American delegation was saying was that if we are going to open up our market to Japan, the Keiretsu system must also be a part of the TPP. There is nothing wrong with what they said. To not open Keiretsu to the TPP members would have given Japan an unfair advantage over the other members. If Japan didn't like it, they shouldn't have joined the negotiations. But the Americans were right to demand that. Remember, the South Koreans opened their Chaebols when they concluded a FTA with both the US AND the EU.

Why can't Japan do the same?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

European cars ARE having problems in Japan.

I see plenty of European cars on the streets daily - Mercs, BMWs, VWs in the main.

Can't remember the last time I saw an American car here. Or even an advertisement for an American car.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I see plenty of European cars on the streets daily - Mercs, BMWs, VWs in the main.

Because the very very rich don't care about tarrifs. They buy these cars as a status symbol. The regular people can't afford them. That's where the problem is. But like the article which our colleague kindly provided us says, the problem isn't just about cars at all. Its about the Keiretsu system which has long been seen as a protectionist system aimed at keeping imports at an all time low. In fact, I'm willing to bet that had the japanese delegation offered to open up their markets to American cars but kept the rest of the Keiretsu out of the TPP it would not have been acceptable to the Americans. And to those who think that American cars are not suitable for Japan, the answer is let the free market decide. But this whole American cars are too big for our parking spaces crap is the same BS we heard about foreign beef and Japanese intestines. Nihonjinron and all that. Well, Trump is just giving Japan a taste of their own medicine. America First is Nihonjinron American style- And the Japanese are hating it.

Can't remember the last time I saw an American car here.

Brother in law. Jeep Wrangler. But he bought it second hand which is why he could afford it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Because the very very rich don't care about tarrifs.

Plenty of my neighbours drive European cars. They aren't very very rich. My sil has a Merc. She isn't very very rich. We used to have a VW. We aren't very very rich.

But if the very very rich don't care about tariffs, why are they buying European cars and not American cars?

this whole American cars are too big for our parking spaces crap

We have access to two cars - my sil's Merc (she leaves it with us most of the time coz parking in Tokyo is too expensive) and a smaller, Japanese car. When we have to drive into Tokyo we use the smaller car because it's easier to drive on the narrow streets.

Brother in law. Jeep Wrangler.

One car. So why aren't other people buying them?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Plenty of my neighbours drive European cars. They aren't very very rich. My sil has a Merc. She isn't very very rich. We used to have a VW. We aren't very very rich.

Sure. If you get it used.

But if the very very rich don't care about tariffs, why are they buying European cars and not American cars?

Do you have any actual stats to prove that the rich are prefering to buy European over American?

One car. So why aren't other people buying them?

Again where are you getting your info? Do you know for a fact that Japanese prefer European to American cars? Because the link I provided above shows that European manufacturers too are having a hard time in Japan. And Korean car makers actually gave up and folded in Japan.

https://democrats-waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/TPP%20Japan%20U.S.%20Side-by-side_0.pdf

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Do you have any actual stats to prove that the rich are prefering to buy European over American?

Stats? No. Just lots of European cars seen on the roads every day, vs no American cars. And it's you claiming that only rich people can buy new European cars, not me.

Because the link I provided above shows....

Mmm, no, it makes claims. It doesn't show anything. And why do you keep referring to an American source to tell us how European car manufacturers think they are doing in Japan?

The Japan Times tells us that VW, the top foreign car seller in Japan, saw its sales drop (for the first time in 6 years) last year as a result of the emissions scandal, not unfair Japanese tariffs.

The paper also reports that while sales of foreign cars dropped 1.6% overall last year, sales of Japanese brands dropped 5.8% in the same period.

VW, Merc and BMW together managed to sell in excess of 166,000 vehicles.

I can't find any figures showing how many US cars were sold here last year. I did find a number of old articles claiming that the US tries to sell cars with the steering wheel on the wrong side, dunno if that's still true. Is it? Or is 'driving on the wrong side of the road' seen as an 'invisible tariff'?

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/01/08/business/volkswagen-loses-seat-top-foreign-car-seller-japan-2015/#.WIWzMLF7E18

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Stats? No. Just lots of European cars seen on the roads every day, vs no American cars.

meaning you don't have anything to back up your claims

The Japan Times tells us that VW, the top foreign car seller in Japan, saw its sales drop (for the first time in 6 years) last year as a result of the emissions scandal, not unfair Japanese tariffs.

Really? well if you want to quote Japan times and VW

But Volkswagen’s presence in the key market comes at a big cost, said one competitor. “They sell at a loss.”

your beloved VW sells at a loss in Japan. Why? Read on..

Some critics pin the imbalance on nontariff barriers they say effectively shut foreign automakers out of the market — a key issue in ongoing free trade talk

Frederic Bourene, head of Japanese marketing for French maker Renault, chalked up the challenge to the dominance of Japan’s domestic manufacturers with their well-established supply chains and thousands of dealerships.

Between the logistics costs and the exchange rate, foreign brands are about 20 percent more expensive than Japanese cars in the same range,” Bourene added.

Still, foreign automakers have long complained that authorities here erect huge barriers to entry into the lucrative market. Those walls include requiring firms to change the headlights on Japan-bound cars or install extra and costly electronics, they say. “We often have to add equipment to get approval for our models,” said Tomohiko Yoshioka, an executive at Peugeot-Citroen’s Japanese unit.

The United Auto Workers union has called Japan “the most closed automotive market in the world,” while the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association said earlier this year that it backs free trade agreements that are “balanced and provide real opportunities for export.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/11/25/business/foreign-cars-small-fry-in-domestic-market/#.WIXmyTe-4mE

Still think the Japanese auto industry isn't protectionist?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Still think the Japanese auto industry isn't protectionist?

I've never claimed the auto industry isn't protectionist. My point is that US whingeing is over the top, seeing that European brands sell so much better than US cars; as the link you give says, German brands and Volvo account for about three-quarters of all foreign cars sold in Japan. What are they doing right that the US is doing wrong?

Your link gives us more clues:

The American manufacturers don't even bother to show their faces at the Tokyo Car Show; how do they expect to sell anything if they aren't even here?

“kei” cars, which have small engines of 660cc or less, account for about one-third of sales in Japan, a category almost nonexistent among U.S. and European manufacturers.

Gotta try to sell what the customer wants to buy....why no kei cars?

(By the way, the VW was not 'beloved' by me, though Mr. cleo loved it; I was happy when it went and we got a Toyota instead.)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We were thinking of importing cars to Japan. The tariffs were so high we eventually gave up on the business.

There are no tarrifs in Japan for cars. I think you meant to say the capital needed was too high so we gave up on the business because we did not have the adequate resources set up a real company with competent management.

Because the very very rich don't care about tarrifs.

(a second time) There are no car tarris in Japan.

So because YOU can buy cheap garlic that makes Japan not protectionist??

Yes, I can fine.

It explains that European cars ARE having problems in Japan.

All car companies are having a hard time in Japan because there are less car sales here period. More and more people here are becoming minimalists. The new hot market is China- you should go there. Why did you want to enter a dead market (then you blame the Japanese govt. for your lack of success- actually you didn't even start the business)? Also, you have heard of the company YANASE, right? The are a real company that does what you wish you could and they do it fine. It just sounds like you didn't have the resources to set up a car import business, you were looking for something to blame (obviously not in the mirror), and decided to blame the Japanese government. You keep saying tariffs and there are no tariffs in Japan and when you keep saying that all parking spaces in Japan don't allow non-Japanese cars it just sounds like someone who wants to blame everyone else but himself. You are not allowed to park a non-Japanese car? What does the driver do? Fold it up and put the car in his pocket? I have been in Japan for a while and I have never ever heard this crazy statement. Hey other JT posters, have you heard that owners of foreign cars in Japan are not allowed to park them? Please state your stories here.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The simple truth is that overwhelming majority of Japanese don't like American cars. They don't like the design (or lack of design), the size, the lack of available service and parts, the poor quality and lack of localization.

On the other hand, Japanese cars have been rated as the best cars in almost every category in the US for decades.

fini

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I've never claimed the auto industry isn't protectionist.

Then can we agree that they are? Because that was my whole premise from day 1.

My point is that US whingeing is over the top, seeing that European brands sell so much better than US cars; as the link you give says, German brands and Volvo account for about three-quarters of all foreign cars sold in Japan. What are they doing right that the US is doing wrong?

Its not just the US. South Korea has given up as well. I guess the Americans are thinking of Triage-cut your losses and run. Maybe not a bad strategy. Maybe South Korea is thinking the same. The Japanese market is just not worth it. Declining population, Declining real wages, and all the rest.

why no kei cars?

A valid point. preaching to the choire on that one. Considering climate change and all.

There are no tarrifs in Japan for cars

obviously you didn't read the article I provided. Here it is again.

Between the logistics costs and the exchange rate, foreign brands are about 20 percent more expensive than Japanese cars in the same range,” Bourene added. Still, foreign automakers have long complained that authorities here erect huge barriers to entry into the lucrative market. Those walls include requiring firms to change the headlights on Japan-bound cars or install extra and costly electronics, they say.

When people involved in the industry say there are foreign tarrifs and some anonymous JT poster says there isn't, I'll go with the former thank you very much.

You are not allowed to park a non-Japanese car?

That was what I was told in my first parking space, yes.

What does the driver do? Fold it up and put the car in his pocket?

good question. Ask the parking landlord.

I have been in Japan for a while and I have never ever heard this crazy statement.

Well, then obviously you haven't been here long enough.

The simple truth is that overwhelming majority of Japanese don't like American cars. They don't like the design (or lack of design), the size, the lack of available service and parts, the poor quality and lack of localization. On the other hand, Japanese cars have been rated as the best cars in almost every category in the US for decades.

Fine. Let foreign cars in and let the market decide.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How many does US or European auto manufacturers have even a knock off factory in Japan?

They can if they want to. There is nothing stopping them. What would be illegal about FORD opening a factory in Japan? They just need billions of dollars to do it.

obviously you didn't read the article I provided. Here it is again.

No car tariffs (tax) in Japan- also for car parts.

When people involved in the industry say...

I thought you were involved in the industry.

That was what I was told in my first parking space, yes.

It just sounds like you expected this business would be as simple as opening an English school but found out otherwise and decided to blame everything/everyone except for your own lack of ability and resources. Your story of your business dream failure due to is being completely others' fault is not convincing. Yanase is a famous company that sells imports and their business is fine. They are a real company who knows how to do this and they have been doing this for decades- going strong.

Then can we agree that they are?

They are not protectionist.

The Japanese market is just not worth it. Declining population, Declining real wages, and all the rest.

Now who/what are you blaming? I thought you were saying it was the Japanese government's fault?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They can if they want to. There is nothing stopping them. What would be illegal about FORD opening a factory in Japan? They just need billions of dollars to do it.

And be forced incur expenses Japanese manufactures are not.

No car tariffs (tax) in Japan- also for car parts

Yes there are. Still, foreign automakers have long complained that authorities here erect huge barriers to entry into the lucrative market. Those walls include requiring firms to change the headlights on Japan-bound cars or install extra and costly electronics, they say. “We often have to add equipment to get approval for our models,” said Tomohiko Yoshioka, an executive at Peugeot-Citroen’s Japanese unit.

When you HAVE TO add equipment to get approval its a tariff.

They are not protectionist.

Yes they are. And that comment was directed at cleo, not you.

Now who/what are you blaming? I thought you were saying it was the Japanese government's fault?

It is.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And be forced incur expenses Japanese manufactures are not.

Yes, factories are not free.

Those walls include requiring firms to change the headlights on Japan-bound cars or install extra and costly electronics

Yes, and cars going into the US have certain requirements that are also costly but the real companies have the capital and ability to do this. That is not a tariff.

Yes they are.

They are not protectionist. And their is no tarrif tax on cars or parts.

Sorry, Yanase has been doing this for decades. They are a private and profitable company that has been doing this for a long time. You do know Yanase, don't you? If they can do it then how come you can't? Answer- It's just obvious you didn't have what was needed to start a real self-sustaining business and want to blame everyone else.Why is Yanase so successful? And almost half their current brands are American.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, factories are not free.

We are not talking about factories

Yes, and cars going into the US have certain requirements that are also costly but the real companies have the capital and ability to do this

Like?

They are not protectionist. And their is no tarrif tax on cars or parts.

Yes they are. Yes there is. I've already shown that AND foreign car manufacturers have repeated said that. BOTH US and European car makers.

Sorry, Yanase has been doing this for decades. They are a private and profitable company that has been doing this for a long time.

The success of Yanase doesn't mean that Japan is not protectionist. That is a straw-man argument.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sorry, I'm not a millionaire either, but I don't blame the government. You just couldn't make it and that's life. It is a tough market, some have made it but others such as yourself can't.

If Yanase can succeed then why can't you? They have been in business for 100 years and have evolved into a self-sustainable business. And what were you going to do? Just import cars simply? Beyond that what were your plans? Were you going to have showrooms? Offer service? Did you have a plan to change the steering wheels to the right side and did you have enough money for the parts, facility, and labor to do it- for example? What was your complete plan and did you have enough capital to do it? Again, it's just not some empty room you can rent for English lessons. If it were that simple then I know I would know people in the import car business (but I know people in the export -keep reading).

If you are into cars then why don't you export used Japanese ones? I know a few people who do that (including non-Japanese). If you know what you are doing you can make a little money from that.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sorry, I'm not a millionaire either, but I don't blame the government. You just couldn't make it and that's life. It is a tough market, some have made it but others such as yourself can't.

It would be better if you avoid making baseless comments like that. First of all, we didn't fail. The business worked, but it was more trouble than it was worth and we decided that it just wasn't worth it and that there were other things we could explore.

If Yanase can succeed then why can't you? They have been in business for 100 years and have evolved into a self-sustainable business. And what were you going to do? Just import cars simply? Beyond that what were your plans? Were you going to have showrooms? Offer service? Did you have a plan to change the steering wheels to the right side and did you have enough money for the parts, facility, and labor to do it- for example? What was your complete plan and did you have enough capital to do it? Again, it's just not some empty room you can rent for English lessons. If it were that simple then I know I would know people in the import car business (but I know people in the export -keep reading).

Comments like that show you know NOTHING of the car business. You are also steering the argument away from the initial subject which is Japan's protectionism.

Here is the THIRD link I have provided you to read. Do me a favor: back up your argument that Japan is not protectionist with some PROOF, instead of your baseless arguements. And please stop trying to steer the conversation away from the original argument which is Japan is protectionist. This article is about protectionism. Not my business. Now I have provided you with 3 links for which to read from. I trust that you will read them before commenting. The bottom one here should be of exceptional importance as it is a gov document. I have highlighted SOME parts which highlight what the US government asked the J govemment to do. IF you have proof that Japan is NOT protectionist, show me. I'll read whatever you post. But for now, my argument stands.

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Summary-US-Japan-Motor-Vehicle-Trade-Non-Tariff-Measures.pdf

Non-tariff measures (NTMs) in Japan have limited access for U.S. motor vehicle exports to Japan.

Japan’s regulatory process is opaque and offers inadequate opportunities for foreign input and access to information.

Japan’s unique standards impose high costs on U.S. automakers operating in multiple markets. In addition, Japan has unnecessarily delayed permission to sell vehicles with advanced technologies.

The Preferential Handling Procedure (PHP) is important to U.S. motor vehicle producers because it allows them to sell cars in Japan using faster, less costly certification procedures. Under the TPP, Japan has agreed that it will not make the PHP program more costly or complex, and that motor vehicles certified using the PHP program will continue to be eligible for financial incentives available to Japanese vehicles.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The business worked

Please be specific, what exactly work and didn't? Did you just expect to sell US cars in Japan as is? No attempt to localize? Support? Did you consider changing the side of the steering wheel?

that there were other things we could explore.

Such as?

Comments like that show you know NOTHING of the car business.

But with your failures do you? Yanase sure does- for the last 100 years. You are an authority on the car industry, maybe work there?

Why don't you try exporting cars? I know people who do that but I don't know anyone who imports.

That link reads like a bunch of whiny propaganda and excuses, like the reasons why your business failed.

I checked this link:

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/japan/2015-full-year-japan-best-selling-car-brands-and-manufacturers/

As of 2015 Mercedez Benz was no. 10 overall and the first US maker was at no. 20- which is pretty sorry. If you look MB sales are going up (and some J auto makers are going down). It just seems like (1) you chose a poor product to try to import and (2) probably the business structure was not adequate. Maybe you can try to import German cars? At least you would have a car that Japanese people actually want, but reading your posts I would still have the second concern that I mentioned above.

I do see typical American cars left side steering wheel included, they do exist but not common. I see those humongous Hummer 2s once in a while, I have even seen an actual Hummer driven by an ordinary person. If the market demanded the car you wanted to sell then you might have had a chance (point 2 above notwithstanding). But there isn't a good market for that. Some American companies are succeeding like Disney, Universal, clothing brands, not to mention Apple. Japan is a very open market- MB is going up. I'm just hearing a bunch of excuses.

Next time try importing European cars. The numbers show they are more marketable. Mercedes is growing in sales.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Please be specific, what exactly work and didn't? Did you just expect to sell US cars in Japan as is? No attempt to localize? Support? Did you consider changing the side of the steering wheel? that there were other things we could explore. Such as? Comments like that show you know NOTHING of the car business. But with your failures do you? Yanase sure does- for the last 100 years. You are an authority on the car industry, maybe work there? Why don't you try exporting cars? I know people who do that but I don't know anyone who imports.

Again this thread is not about my business no matter how hard you try to steer the conversation away from the main points:

That link reads like a bunch of whiny propaganda and excuses, like the reasons why your business failed.

Ridiculous comment as I already tried to explain to you that my business didn't fail. Also I can tell you didn't read the link. It describes in detail the trade pact established and the concern of both sides. So I know for a fact that you didn't read it.

On the other hand, I checked the link you gave me. And what does it show? That ALL THE JAPANESE AUTO COMPANIES ranked in the top over ALL the European AND American cars! So thank you for proving MY POINT with this link that Japan is protectionist! The link YOU provided showed that. Thank you.

Next time try importing European cars. The numbers show they are more marketable. Mercedes is growing in sales.

Again, shows you haven't done your homework on this subject at all, AND you don't bother to read the links I sent you. Read the links before making completely incorrect comments please.

But Volkswagen’s presence in the key market comes at a big cost, said one competitor. “They sell at a loss.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/11/25/business/foreign-cars-small-fry-in-domestic-market/#.WIXmyTe-4mE

Hyundai-Kia, Korea’s top automaker, pulled out of Japan in 2009 because of struggling sales. European auto companies oppose an FTA with Japan because they cannot sell cars there.

https://democrats-waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/TPP%20Japan%20U.S.%20Side-by-side_0.pdf

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Please be specific, what exactly worked and didn't? Did you just expect to sell US cars in Japan as is? No attempt to localize? Support? Did you consider changing the side of the steering wheel? What car makers and models were you trying to import?

That ALL THE JAPANESE AUTO COMPANIES

Same with Germany and Korea with all their cars. No scandal there.

But Volkswagen’s presence...

That is old news. They are bringing electric cars soon.

Hyundai-Kia, Korea’s top automaker, pulled out of Japan

Daihatsu pulled out of the USA in the 90s.

It's not the Japanese government's fault that the steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car. And Yanase has been in business and doing what you failed at. There are no tariffs for cars in Japan.

Again this thread is not about my business

It just sounds like you expect the world to revolve around your failures and feel sorry for you. The business world does not work thay way. If the founder of Yanase had that same attitude there is no way that company could have survived.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Please be specific, what exactly worked and didn't? Did you just expect to sell US cars in Japan as is? No attempt to localize? Support? Did you consider changing the side of the steering wheel? What car makers and models were you trying to import?

Nothing to do with Japanese protectionism.

Same with Germany and Korea with all their cars. No scandal there.

You already proved my point in your last post. No backtracking now.

That is old news. They are bringing electric cars soon.

Again. Your post has nothing to do with Japanese protectionism.

Daihatsu pulled out of the USA in the 90s.

Daihatsu is Japanese. You do know that.

It's not the Japanese government's fault that the steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car.

Wrong side? Again nothing to do with protectionism.

There are no tariffs for cars in Japan.

Yes there are as I have clearly showed. Even YOU showed the case for Japanese protectionism with your last link. LOL

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What kind of cars did you try to import and sell into Japan?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Both American and European. We also exported Japanese cars. It was import/ export and there was a market for them, but this kind of business is exhausting. You have to go and buy and sell cars at the Noda, (Chiba) auction every Thursday. There was a market, but the paperwork and stress just wasn't worth it. Word of advice to you: don't either try to import nor export cars ANYWHERE. Its a nightmare. Do what we did: get into the translation business. Now there's a nice job. And if you hit the jackpot, you'll be able to do it full time freelance from home. Now that's a nice life.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

don't either try to import nor export cars ANYWHERE. Its a nightmare

I don't want to personally but....

I know a used car dealer who exports as an extra side business. It's not a nightmare for him. he makes a little extra cash. No problem. His used car business specialty is non Japanese. He deals and services in non Japanese cars because they need more repair service so he can make more money with those cars than with Japanese cars (which need less repair)

I also know one more non Japanese who exports and it's been steady enough for him for years (no pot of gold but OK enough to pay the bills).

I know two people who export and it's not a nightmare for either of them.

I thought this was about Japan's closed market only. Why wouldn't Japan want to have their old cars offloaded and bring more money into the economy?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I also know one more non Japanese who exports and it's been steady enough for him for years (no pot of gold but OK enough to pay the bills).

Its hard work, and depending on what you want to do it may or may not be worth it. To each his own.

I know two people who export and it's not a nightmare for either of them.

Exporting is not as hard as importing. The paperwork is FAR less, which is one of the reasons I call Japan protectionist. The methods are small and subtle, but those little annoyances are designed to make you give up.

Why wouldn't Japan want to have their old cars offloaded and bring more money into the economy?

Because, my friend, the Japanese people today don't have as much money as they did 20 years ago. 20 years ago, there were people who changed their cars every three years and bought a new car. But by and large people had money and could change their cars. Now people can't afford to keep buying new cars, so the old cars are not getting sold either. its really sad.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Because, my friend, the Japanese people today don't have as much money as they did 20 years ago

Exporting is sold to other countries. I am talking about exporting what you called a nightmare (on top of importing)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Exporting is sold to other countries. I am talking about exporting what you called a nightmare (on top of importing)

But if there are less cars out there because people are not selling them due to financial reasons, it becomes a nightmare too.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But I still know two people who are successful at it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As do I. I know more than just 2. For some people, it's ok. They enjoy it, but it is hard work. We were successful too, but we felt that the reward wasn't worth the effort. To each his own.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But Japan has no import tariffs for cars.

Now people can't afford to keep buying new cars

This is not a tarrif

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But Japan has no import tariffs for cars.

They have official rules that act in the same manner as tariffs. I would say talk to your dealer friend who deals with the foreign cars. Does he import the cars or just deal with the ones here. Either way, you should talk to him. He should know something about the protectionist policies even if he doesn't import them directly.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Does he import

No

Did you actually import and sell cars? Then decide to stop doing it later because it was not worth it?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Did you actually import and sell cars? Then decide to stop doing it later because it was not worth it?

yes

1 ( +1 / -0 )

yes

No you didn't. Your quote:

"We were thinking of importing cars to Japan. The tariffs were so high we eventually gave up on the business."

When you make up stories about yourself make sure you are consistent.

Also, (one more time) japan has no import car tariffs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We were thinking of importing cars to Japan. The tariffs were so high we eventually gave up on the business."

We were importing a few cars at a time. It wasn't a BUSINESS yet. We are also translating freelance now. But it is not yet a business. We ARE trying to set up a business. If you think that selling a couple of cars means you have a business, you do not know what a business is

Also, (one more time) japan has no import car tariffs.

Yes they do

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Early on you said you didn't import cars then you said you did (and sold them) - few at a time. You are making stuff up.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But Japan has no tariffs. They just don't like big old ugly buicks here.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

They have protectionist policies

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The government? Like what? Just get the engineers to build to those specs. It's just cars, not the space shuttle. It's not that bad since the steering wheel can be on the American side. A a low birthrate or poorer people (less sales) is not protectionist.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Their policies are protectionist

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Like......?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Look at the links I gave you. Proof that you don't check other people's links

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Parking spaces that don't allow non-Japanese cars. Do you have a link to that kind of story?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Again. Read the links I sent you. They clearly list some of these protectionist measures. Read the links

0 ( +1 / -1 )

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140831/GLOBAL02/309019963/why-gm-struggles-in-japan

"There are no nontariff barriers,"

"The German brands have flourished in Japan, even as the Detroit 3's fortunes fade. Their downfall, says Ide: "lack of effort."

Takeyoshi Ide Yanase CEO

"High-end brands, including Mercedes, Audi and BMW, all posted gains for the first seven months. Mercedes topped its German rivals, selling 31,291 vehicles. Yet, Cadillac remains a different animal: Its sales dropped 27 percent to 425."

This is from a real car businessman. Sorry, US cars just suck in the eyes of the Japanese customer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Again, a lame attempt to deflect the real issue which is general protectionism by Japan of all foreign cars. As you yourself showed in your very first link, all Japanese car manufacturers had the top spots in Japan while all the foreign manufacturers were at the bottom.

Yes it's true that European cars do so better than American cars in Japan. But that does not mean that Japan does not have protectionism. At the end of the day, every single foreign car maker has a smaller niche in the Japanese market in any of the Japanese car makers. That's what your first link correctly showed. The fact that American cars don't sell as well as their European counterparts doesn't at all prove that there is no protection is it by the Japanese companies. And like I told you before you yourself unwittingly proved my point by your very first link. So trying to backtrack now doesn't work. Sorry. And yes Japan has a lot of nontariff barriers. Those are what my three links showed you

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No, CEO of Yanase vs your comment. It's a clear winner. It's his business to import and he says American cars just simply suck and the companies are lazy. Those links say nothing. I provided a quote from the actual CEO of Japan's biggest foreign car distributor. He says otherwise. He is a real businessman. He has actually imported many many cars (and not just a few at a time)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

this whole conversation started with the premise that Japan is protectionist. Arguing that European cars do better than American cars is not even an argument for or against Japanese protectionism. Especially when your first link showed that all the Japanese companies do better than all the foreign companies in the Japanese market. that was your link, and like I said you unwittingly proved my point. Whether you like it or not that's what you did

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Nishikat and Aly Rustom, please do not address each other any further on this thread.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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