Murray edges Raonic; Djokovic thrashes Nishikori to reach ATP final

Wow, the Murray v Nishikori match the other day just set a longest match record at ATP Tour Finals, and now two matches later Murray sets a new record v Raonic. Thank goodness these are only 3 set matches.

“I’m tired,” Murray said.

No kidding!

“I’ve played so much tennis the last few months. I’ll just give my best effort tomorrow. It’s going to be tough, obviously, but I’ll give my best shot.”

Hopefully Murray has more to give than Nishikori did against Djokovic. I think Djokovic defeats Murray in straight sets and regains that number one ranking. It would be some legendary effort on Murray's part to win under these circumstances.

fxgai: "Hopefully Murray has more to give than Nishikori did against Djokovic."

I know you don't want to hear this, but I don't think it's possible to give less. That was horrific. And I'm pretty sure Djokovic has got to be tired, too, although granted his match didn't take near the time Murray's did.

Nishikori was not worth getting up to watch. Kept one serve the entire match. Not sure why Djokovic has to be tired. Murray should go into the next match knowing he can take a long long deserved vacation and leave it all out there. Go Murray!

Otsukaresama, Kei-san. Nole, Nole, Nole !

I just don't understand the mindset of some of the posters here. Yesterday, someone here had hoped that Nishikori would wear out Đoković so that the latter would face a fresh Murray. What tennis fan would not want to see two players face one another in their best condition? And during Nishikori's last tournament,someone had hoped that he'd meet someone who was exhausted at every single round. That person must have very little confidence if he thinks that's the only way Nishikori can win. Saying that Nishikori lost that match to save energy has become a cliché and so eye-rolling. If he wanted to save energy, he would have tried to win the second set, and thus spend less time on court.

Anyway, the facts don't lie - Đoković, I believe, has now beaten Nishikori ten times in a row. Some much for yesterday's poster's wish. I personally went to sleep after Murray lost the first set. So sick and tired of watching Murray mumbling, whinging and shouting at himself every time it doesn't go his way. Nothing ever changes with him. And Đoković always uses that to his advantage.

Go Djokovic! Not that I think he needs the encouragement... just can't imagine Murray being able to pull off a win over Djokovic.

I know you don't want to hear this

You are good for laughs - say whatever you like, Mr "Nishikori may be on the right track this time" bandwagon boy!

I don't think it's possible to give less.

He could have just not played. I know YOU don't want to hear this, but he was playing with injury. And Djokovic is taller than him too. (ttb?)

Great season from Nishikori though. Djokovic said it well after the match - "Kei was obviously a little bit tired and he was not close to his best tonight, but well done to him for a great tournament and a great season and I hope to see him next season."

Can't expect everyone to play their best every time.

These are the top four at this event. All the other players in the world (in their category) are behind them, at the moment.

Saying that Nishikori lost that match to save energy has become a cliché and so eye-rolling. If he wanted to save energy, he would have tried to win the second set, and thus spend less time on court.

I made that statement referring to his match with Čilić, just in case there's confusion.

So sick and tired of watching Murray mumbling, whinging and shouting at himself

Fair enough if you like your sports starts clean and shiny. But for us wrinkly, grumpy mumblers with bad clothes sense, he's the poster boy.

Nishikori was obviously tired and worn out from what has been his best season ever. He will get some rest, save his energy and be ready for 2017 - I just have a feeling it will be his year. The Murrays, Djokers and Stans are not getting any younger.

Pukey2: "That person must have very little confidence if he thinks that's the only way Nishikori can win."

Exactly. The same people hope others are injured and have to forfeit and can't wait for when they quit altogether so Nishikori can finally move up beyond where he is. It's quite sad, really, but there is a lot of that mindset. You see it in the Olympics with Japanese fans, too.

fxgai: "You are good for laughs - say whatever you like, Mr "Nishikori may be on the right track this time" bandwagon boy!"

Actually, my statement is proof I am anything but a bandwagon fan -- I can criticize him when he deserves it, and say that "he might be on the right track" (which if you can't see, is not flat out praise but a comment indicating he may be doing better than usual). You, on the other hand, take even the slightest criticism of Nishikori and say the poster is wrong (or right if and when they praise him), and treat him as though he's the best player when he clearly is not. In fact, you and others have been saying for more than three years "this year is going to be Nishikori's year", and lest we forget you bet and lost your pride on him already. I've always liked and been somewhat of a fan of Nishikori -- I'm just not blinded to his actual ability, and want him to work for his victories instead of being handed them, and don't make excuses, as you did yesterday, about how "Nishikori is tired" or "saving energy", or how "the opponent is tall", etc.

"He could have just not played."

And would have salvaged a little dignity. As it is this was possibly the fastest and worst match of the whole tournament.

"...but well done to him for a great tournament and a great season and I hope to see him next season."

And on the hope that he will improve we can all agree, I hope. I don't have to drop all criticism and love him to hope as much, nor do I have to hate him to criticize -- it's call being open-minded. Give it a try. You might find yourself being less upset when he doesn't live up to your lofty expectations.

Pukey,

I just don't understand the mindset of some of the posters here. Yesterday, someone here had hoped that Nishikori would wear out Đoković so that the latter would face a fresh Murray.

On the contrary, Murray played two of the longest matches in the tournament's history - he was hardly coming into the final fresh. So Djokovic also having a tough match-up would have made their lead-ups more even.

In the end Murray has managed to win despite it, and well done to him for that. (Had he lost due to fatigue, there would have been an asterix next to the result. He's more of a man of steel than many including myself gave him credit for.)

Saying that Nishikori lost that match to save energy

Did anyone claim that he did? I suggested that he might do that before the match, because I wanted to see him as fresh as possible before the Djokovic match, again because I wanted to see a even contest, same thing as above. But Nishikori won the first set against Cilic convincingly, so he obviously gave it his best effort.

smith,

You "criticize" him whenever he loses a match though, even though he has complied once of the best win-loss records on the tour this season.

He wins a match and you think he's doing "better than usual"... Your criticism is without merit, which is why I call you on it. People who knew nothing more than the comments you write would get the impression that Nishikori is one of the most hapless players on the circuit.

In fact, you and others have been saying for more than three years "this year is going to be Nishikori's year"

No, it was you who said in 2014 that "I think Nishikori will win [the US Open final], given this victory, and he still has quite a few years left to go to win a lot more" https://www.japantoday.com/category/sports/view/history-making-nishikori-beats-djokovic-to-reach-u-s-open-final

I don't think I've said any specific year was going to be his year, and I challenge you to prove me wrong with evidence. But you won't though, will you!!

don't make excuses, as you did yesterday, about how "Nishikori is tired" or "saving energy", or how "the opponent is tall", etc.

Nishikori was tired (if not effected by injury too). It's just a fact, and Djokovic said as much. No point in denying it so why don't you accept it? (No one has said that it was a certainty that he would have beaten Djokovic had he been in better physical shape.)

It's because you want to just bash him, rather than be constructive in your criticism - e.g. you could validly make the claim that his durability is below that of the other top players. But you don't.

And would have salvaged a little dignity.

You are claiming now that he's lost "dignity"... Unbelievable.

You might find yourself being less upset when he doesn't live up to your lofty expectations.

He has already met my expectations, he's one of the best players in the world! It's you who sets lofty expectations for him (like you did in 2014) and then now seem to take glee from it when there's a chance to knock him. Even though it was you who set lofty expectations in the first place.

BurakuminDes,

Nishikori was obviously tired and worn out from what has been his best season ever. He will get some rest, save his energy and be ready for 2017 - I just have a feeling it will be his year.

LOL, Love it!

fxgai: "I suggested that he might do that before the match,"

Yes, as many people often make excuses before a match just in case their favored player loses.

"Nishikori was tired."

And there you go, post match, too! Nishikori didn't lose because Djokovic, who has won the last 10 games because he is the superior player of the two, he lost it because he was tired.

"You are claiming now that he's lost "dignity"."

Only through the eyes of those who hold him as a kind of god when he does not deserve it. Well, okay, in this case it WAS a pretty horrible result. Even other fans agree: (from Tsuchifumazu) "Nishikori was not worth getting up to watch. Kept one serve the entire match."

"he's one of the best players in the world!"

But will never be the best, clearly, until the best have retired and if no one new comes up to be better before then. Something you cannot accept. How many times have you guys said, "this is going to be his year" now? Seriously... please tell me. But you guys literally treat him like he IS the best, as does much of the media and people here, and then when he doesn't win it's because "he was tired" and "saving his energy", etc. It's pathetic, and an insult to Nishikori.

"It's because you want to just bash him, rather than be constructive in your criticism"

Says the guy who has not even admitted this match was awful -- only made excuses about fatigue.

"It's you who sets lofty expectations for him (like you did in 2014)"

No, it's me who does not give him the trophy and the medals before he has earned them -- something you guys have done constantly. I expect him to do the work to get the gold, you expect the gold to already have his name on it without the work.

"and then now seem to take glee from it when there's a chance to knock him...."

No, not at all. That is how the insecure people feel when they must face up to the fact that their boy is not what they've been hoisting him up as. I have always said I hope he does better, and when ill said I hope he gets well and it's a sorry way to lose, etc. I maintain that: I hope he does well next year. But I REFUSE to say it's going to be his year before the year has even begun, unlike you guys.

"LOL, Love it!"

You know he was being sarcastic, right?

many people often make excuses before a match just in case their favored player loses.

They aren't making excuses, they are discussing sport and factors that may have an influence on the outcomes; and adults don't take it personally when their favourite player loses. Sports would not bring joy to millions of people around the world if people felt the need to make excuses when their favourite team or player lost.

Your attacks on Nishikori though suggest that you did take it personally that Nishikori failed to win the US Open in 2014. You counted Nishikori's chickens before they hatched, and instead of fronting to even yourself and admitting that you were swept on to the bandwagon at the time, you have been projecting your own faults on to others ever since. You should just front up, admit that you were wrong, and get over it already (like I did when I lost my "tennis pride bet" - something that you curiously cling to despite presumably being a mature adult!).

Nishikori didn't lose because Djokovic, who has won the last 10 games because he is the superior player of the two, he lost it because he was tired.

I already spelled it out to you in my previous comment that "No one has said that it was a certainty that he would have beaten Djokovic had he been in better physical shape". No one even said it was probable. Nishikori fans wanting to see him win doesn't mean anything other than that.

"You are claiming now that he's lost "dignity"." Only through the eyes of those who hold him as a kind of god when he does not deserve it.

But you can only speak for yourself, no one else claimed he had lost his "dignity". That's some tripe to come up with just based on a one-sided result in a sports match...

But will never be the best

It is you who keeps setting this expectation for him to be the best, and then bashing him for not being the best.

But you guys literally treat him like he IS the best, as does much of the media and people here,

No, they don't. You just keep saying that. Lying doesn't make it true.

It's pathetic, and an insult to Nishikori.

Pot kettle black.

You know he was being sarcastic, right?

Of course I did, but well done to you for accurately detecting the presence of sarcasm this time!

fxgai: "They aren't making excuses, they are discussing sport and factors that may have an influence on the outcomes; "

In some cases, yes. In yours, no. I heard no less than TWO people today talk about how Nishikori lost to Djokovic because the former was tired. So when I asked about why the latter beat Djokovic because he was tired it was deer in headlights.

"Your attacks on Nishikori though suggest that you did take it personally that Nishikori failed to win the US Open in 2014."

I haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about, but I can tell you for a fact I am NOT that invested in tennis to begin with -- certainly not enough to bet my pride on it -- and while I hoped, as I STILL hope, that Nishikori would do better than he did, and used to see him as truly up and coming (don't any more unless it's by the actual masters dropping out permanently), I assure you I took nothing personally. Obviously YOU did, though.

"You counted Nishikori's chickens before they hatched, and instead of fronting to even yourself and admitting that you were swept on to the bandwagon at the time, you have been projecting your own faults on to others ever since."

Wow, you are bringing some serious personal baggage into this and misdirecting it. I am anything but a bandwagon fan for starters. Wishing someone well is another issue. For example, I am a Hanshin Tigers fan, but good or bad, and I have no problem saying they suck when they suck, that they choke when they choke, and giving them praise when they do well, as well as hoping they continue to do so and do even better next time (as well as admitting they cannot do worse some times). You, on the other hand, are extremely bitter about how Nishikori has not lived up to your expectations and are now making up bizarre stories to deflect. You can't admit Nishikori sucked in his match worse than most if not all matches of the tournament. You just can't -- it's "Nishikori was tired", as you said before he went into it so that you could say, "I told you so" after. THat's all there is to it... or was, until Murray, equally if not more tired, then won against the same player that gave Nishikori one of the worst beatings of his career. Suddenly the excuse does not fly, and I suspect that's part of the bitterness.

"Nishikori was tired."

So, then, how did the tired Murray beat Djokovic? Ah, that's right, when Nishikori lost it was because he was tired, not because of Djokovic's skill. When Murray beat him it was because you think Djokovic wasn't giving it his all, not because of Murray's skill despite being tired.

Excuses, excuses, excuses...

I am NOT that invested in tennis

I actually believe you there, but you sure post a lot considering. Hard to fathom.

I heard no less than TWO people today talk about how Nishikori lost to Djokovic because the former was tired.

If you have complaints about what you think people said, no one gains anything by your complaining about it here (as far as I know).

Wishing someone well is another issue.

This is just comments on a Japan focused news site. Players will never read this. Does anyone care whether random Joes on the Internet post their well wishes or not? Personally, I don't.

You, on the other hand, are extremely bitter about how Nishikori has not lived up to your expectations

He has lived up to my expectations, and I rather than you would know this! It seems you confuse not only "observations" with "excuses", but also "hopes" with "expectations".

You can't admit Nishikori sucked

Sure I can! Djokovic wiped the floor with Nishikori's backside in that match - that much is obvious from the 6-1, 6-1 scoreline!

... and? Does that give you some sense of satisfaction? I'm not your therapist, but I can't fathom what you feel you gain by having a Nishikori fan comment on how poorly Nishikori performed in a particular match! Conversely, do you grant permission for me to note that Nishikori played quite well against Wawrinka, and Murray even in losing? (Murray himself said Nishikori could have won their match in straight sets!)

-- it's "Nishikori was tired", as you said before he went into it so that you could say, "I told you so" after.

It's in your head. I didn't say he was tired "so that" I could say anything - Djokovic is one of the greatest players of all time and ranked higher than Nishikori. The expectation (distinct from my hopes) was that Djokovic would win that match-up. Nishikori needs to play well to even have a chance to beat a guy like this, and that day he didn't play well at all. But that's that, try again next time.

So, then, how did the tired Murray beat Djokovic?

I actually watched the match (I suspect you did not), and it was disappointing as a fan because Djokovic played terrible. Not as bad as Nishikori played against him, but Djokovic hit an uncharacteristically high number of unforced errors and missed some absolute gimmes. It looked to me like he wanted Andy to win (although no one knows what is going on in Djokovic's head that would make him feel like that.)

You seem to want to stop at a superficial level of "player A won because he's better than player B, the scoreline reflects the difference in their abilities. Fullstop!". As an "invested" tennis fan I want to investigate why players fail to produce their best level of tennis on a given day! This was Murray versus Djokovic - it should be a close match going full-sets - if both are playing optimally. Yet it was Nishikori and Raonic that took Murray to full-sets, whereas Djokovic was beaten straight by Murray, and Djokovic destroyed Nishikori...

Your desired conclusion from all this seems to be "Nishikori sucks!" but that doesn't reconcile with how he pushed Murray so close, not to mention defeat him at the US Open.