Across Mideast, Arabs hail shoe-hurling journalist

Across the world, what Mideast is saying publicly others are saying Privately.

Dear al-Zeidi. You are a hero to more than the Arab communities around the world. You have done what many Americans who dislike George Bush with as much passion as many in the Middle East.

Bush and his cronies took advantage of the tragedy of 911 to unleash the worst 8 years of leadership our nation has ever experienced. He started unjust wars, killed countless innocents and alienated much of the world. At home he robbed us of privacy of many of our freedoms and tried to make our nation into a police state.

What al-Zeidi has done is what many of us wish deeply we could have done. And that is express is clear and no uncertain terms our anger over the poor leadership, corruption, violence, incompetence and evil that this man and his administration have unleashed upon the world. It expresses our anger at the fear we have lived under and the lack of vision to change the world positively.

Goodbye you dog! Could not have found a better way to say this in any language. Indeed Goodbye and may your legacy be recognition as the president who nearly brought down our nation and as the worst in our history. To bad there are not more people world wide throwing shoes at him.

I really don't give a flying fig what people across the M.E. think of this. Their reaction was easy to guess.

Let's focus on the reaction of Iraqis. I want to know what percentage of Iraqis cheer this. I want to know what their tribal affiliation is.

I have been sifting through polls to try to answer the question of whether most Iraqis would have preferred the invasion not have happened. The results would seem to indicate they would take the invasion over Saddam. A look at the poll questions made me think they were biased questions though, such as: Which do you prefer, life under Maliki or Saddam? They turned it a popularity contest that, of course, Saddam was going to lose. I already knew they hated Saddam much more than they have neutral feelings about Maliki.

Then this comes along. So is Bush really not such a hero to the Iraqis? Or is the media playing us? I want numbers!

at least he had the freedom to throw in Iraq... I would like to see him toss a boot at any of the benevolent leaders of the glorious muslim countries around Iraq...

but never fear, the blessed Obama is coming... I am sure the reporters will be fighting to wash his feet... with his family ties to islam.

s/

liketis: Sadly I don't think you will ever see real numbers for that question. The answers may not be very favorable.

at least he had the freedom to throw in Iraq...

Like hell he did! He was frogmarched out of that room and into a jail cell.

I would like to see him toss a boot at any of the benevolent leaders of the glorious muslim countries around Iraq...

We never divided Iraq into separate countries. But I would like to see this done to many "leaders" around the world.

liketis: Sadly I don't think you will ever see real numbers for that question. The answers may not be very favorable.

Darn tootin. BOTH sides are biased.

Instant humor in the Arab world. But what kind of humor - pretty low, I'd say. The shoe hurling should have happened long ago at the dictator who killed a few more than the post-Saddam era did.

The shoe hurling should have happened long ago at the dictator who killed a few more than the post-Saddam era did.

You do not seem to realize that there was dissent against Saddam. He slowly and deliberately crushed it. Saddam was hung for basically only one crime: the Dujail massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujail_Massacre

Why did he massacre the town? Well it was not because they threw shoes at him. In fact, they hurled bullets at his motorcade for THREE HOURS. A pity they also failed to hit their target, but that makes this shoe throwing thing look like a love fest.

A headline that had to be;the deadwood media needs to blame someone for their demise. May as well be Bush.

Kurdish Media has reports which - gasp - contradict those of their Western peers:

"Nobody claims that President Bush is flawless or that he should not be criticized. In fact almost every American journalist including the one from his own party rightfully criticize him on a regular basis for his mistakes. However, compare to Saddam whom he removed from power, President Bush is actually a saint. President Bush did not feel insulted and even made a joke about the size of the thrown shoes, which might indicate his mental fitness. I am wondering if the angry man had thrown his shoes at Saddam, would he or any of his family members had been allowed to live any longer; probably not." http://www.kurdmedia.com/article.aspx?id=15287

TooFarGone:

" Kurdish Media has reports which - gasp - contradict those of their Western peers: "

Kurds are not Arabs. Yes, they have a form of Sunnis islam (and laudably a moderate one), but they are not, repeat NOT, Arabs. Their history is not Arabic, their language is not Arabic, their culture is not Arabic. They are KURDS. And they are sympathetic to the US presence in Iraq, understandably considering their situation.

likeitis: Let's focus on the reaction of Iraqis. I want to know what percentage of Iraqis cheer this.

The article clearly gave a quote from a teacher in Iraq, and mentioned thousands of protesters. There was no mention of people who do not support Muntadhar, so they obviously don't exist.

The situation is pretty well summed up in these paragraphs from the article:

So the sight of an average Arab standing up and making a public show of resentment was stunning. The pride, joy and bitterness it uncorked showed how many Arabs place their anger on Bush personally for what they see as a litany of crimes—chief among them the turmoil in Iraq and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths since the 2003 U.S. invasion.

The reaction explains in part the relief among Arabs over the election victory of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama, seen as a repudiation of the Bush era. But it also highlights the task Obama will face in repairing America’s image in the Mideast, where distrust of the U.S. has hampered a range of American policies, from containing Iran to pushing the peace process and democratic reform.

The good news is that we can now effectively write off bush; hard not to, when the very people he "liberated" cheering what in their culture is a damning insult.

More good news is that the Iraqis see President Obama's victory as a repudiation of the bush era, and by extension the Republican party. At least the Iraqis have some modicum of hope that things will improve between America and Iraq.

The bad news is that bush has made such a mess of Iraq (see the above article for details) that Iraqi resentment toward America is likely to remain for years to come, beyond Obama's administration. I'm praying to almighty Christ that bush hasn't simply replaced Saddam's Iraq with a free, democratic, and therefore vastly more powerful Iraq only to see Iraq become an even worse enemy than it was under Saddam.

I was pretty impressed at how well Bush dodged. Great reaction, he's in good shape.

Democrats cheer when an (Republican) American president is insulted overseas. Dems are only concerned with their own political fortunes and not the overall interests of the country. No wonder Obama had to select Bush's Defense Secretary - Democrats can't be trusted with their own country's national interests.

Wolfpack - then explain why so many military voted for Obama, far more than voted for the other guy.

As for Gates, he should be happy; he'll have a real CnC on 20 Jan 09. First time in his career as SecDef.

I think the shoe-throw was cheered across the world, not just the Arab-world. Most people know that Bush is evil.

It was a size 10. Judge not that you may not be judged.

The next Olympics should include shoe throwing. It should be an all-Arab podium!

"As for Gates, he should be happy, he'll have a real CnC on 20 Jan 09"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Yeah, there is no way this guy would have thrown his shoes if saddam was still in power. saddam had everyone's feet cut off, so footwear was unnecessary. The fact that no mainstream media outlet covered it PROVES it's true.

Seriously...when the best rationale for the state of Iraq any war supporter can come up with is, "it was worse under saddam," and you have to rely on things that happened 15 years ago as your only compelling evidence, you've set the bar for success pretty low. And if that is the best we will do, then it sure as hell isn't/wasn't worth the overall cost of invading Iraq.

Taka

Wolfpack, can you do us a favor by naming that democrat happy with this incident?

"Iraqis and other Arabs erupted in glee"

Because the dude missed, right? Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

You do not seem to realize that there was dissent against Saddam

Your assumption is mistaken, but my statement still stands.

sarge -

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Is that the best you can do?! Wow, that was easy! Chalk up yet another one for the dude! xD

Why don't Bush's detractors here try tossing a shoe at him next chance possible?

You're not chickenhawks, are you?

toofargone,

I'll tell you what: you enlist; I'll chuck a shoe and we'll call it even.

Still game?

Taka

The guy without his shoes is probably not going to make the news, tomorrow except in the Bagdad obits

Sarge: The next Olympics should include shoe throwing. It should be an all-Arab podium!

And if the event were dummy-spitting, the podium would be all Republican.

Seriously, I wish folks would see this for what it is. Rightly or wrongly, the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq have happened. Get over it. Whinning and bxtching about whether the US should be there or not are purely academic arguments for the time being. Until Obama makes a decision to withdraw (not just a political promise), US troops in the country (and Iraqi civilians) will have to keep their heads down.

That being said, however, I think the "Great Shoe Toss" is a spectacular condemnation of the lost opportunities that have occured in Iraq. Bush and his advisors might have won the battle to boot out Saddam, but they have definitely not won the peace. The period of time since the invasion has been one lost opportunity after another. It seems that there was no planning to beyond that related to war-fighting. The US stood by while Iraq's national treasures (museums, etc) were looted in the absence of authority. That is just one example.

This Iraqi and his countrymen are frustrated that the coming of the US did not result in a significant improvement in their lives. You can say "Saddam this" and "Saddam that" until you are blue in the face. However, the fact remains that his dictatorship offered a degree of stability to the average person on the street. I think it is a return to such stability (and the removal of danger) that Iraqis yearn for most. Moreover, until the US can deliver on this, it Iraqis will continue to "Do a Nike."

the same people cheered after the attacks on 9-11. is this any surprise? its interesting to see how much the bush haters have in common with people that are sworn enemies of the United States.

Muslem hatred runs long and deep. it started long before Bush ended Saddam Hussein ruthless dictatorship, it will continue no matter who is president, that is just as long as whoever is president does not throw America's national interest or the safety of the Israeli people under the bus.

toofargone,

I'll tell you what: you enlist; I'll chuck a shoe and we'll call it even.

Still game?

Taka

Behold the ravages of BDS.

When abroad Bush, like him or not, is the democratically elected representative of the American people. All of us.

Any "Arab" celebrating this boorish ingrate's little shoe-tossing tantrum as a brave act of defiance and "dissent" does so with the conviction that those shoes were basically tossed at all Americans, regardless of who you wanted in 2000 or 04.

But the Left, blinded by their Bush hatred, can't see that.

great security. what if it were something else thrown...twice!

quick reaction!

Vor -

its interesting to see how much the bush haters have in common with people that are sworn enemies of the United States.

Some people who disagree with bush are active duty US military, just like me. You sure you still wanna compare us with "sworn enemies of the United States?"

Here it comes... wait for it...

I gotta admit if Bush was not a war criminal and an economy terminator, I would not mind he occupying the White House for the next 30 years. I mean, which president is going to feed us with comedy when he is gone. From Mission accomplished to this. Just beat Obama election as event of the year.

TooFarGone - You have my challenge to uphold your lofty stance if ever a similar situation happens to a Democratic President.

But, I will admit, out of all the ways to cringe back in fear from taka's challenge, yours was... "inventive".

Me as well. Not a big fan of Bush either, but I did do 13 years active service. Would still be in the military except of a slight mishap.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of the US, having 30 or so friends posted here and there helping fight the war on Terrorism. At the same time, however, I ain't a Bush fan. So what does that make me? OBL's shower buddy?

However, the fact remains that his dictatorship offered a degree of stability to the average person on the street.

Being in prison also offers a degree of stability, most people would rather pass on being in that situation though.

I think it is a return to such stability (and the removal of danger) that Iraqis yearn for most.

No sane Iraqi yearns for the "good old days of stability" under Saddam. They hung the bastard for goodness sakes and the only tears that were shed were from his Baath party cronies and Sunni loyalists. They are glad he is gone with the exception of the Sunni elite who ruled the country with an iron fist.

They do want security and everyday that situation is getting better, that is a fact. They can toss all the shoes they want. Rather have shoes tossed in making a political point anyday of the week then a hand grenade tossed to make the same point.

That sums it up pretty well I think.

(Vor)

the same people cheered after the attacks on 9-11. is this any surprise? its interesting to see how much the bush haters have in common with people that are sworn enemies of the United States. Muslem hatred runs long and deep. it started long before Bush ended Saddam Hussein ruthless dictatorship, it will continue no matter who is president, that is just as long as whoever is president does not throw America's national interest or the safety of the Israeli people under the bus.

What a stupid thing to write. Get some sense of history. Muslims do no hate the west/USA. Certainly there are plenty of people who do, but to homogenise them like this and make the connection a religious one is ridiculous. Think about what the USA has done to/in the Middle East, and think about how if such things were done to your country and your people, how would you react?

But this is not eternal, nor intrinsic. The malcontent has is roots in very real acts of violence committed on a large scale against people in the Middle East - the vast majority ordinary citizens like you or the next person. Furthermore if over time the USA could make its foreign policy less belligerent (indeed, hopes are high), then there are many states who want to establish and maintain friendly relations, not those of hatred. Respect is only granted where it is due.

If the shoe fits wear it USAFdude.

BTW I'm curious, you invoke the good name of the United States Air Force an awful lot, geez its even in your moniker. I always thought active duty military members when expressing their political views did so as private citizens. What you are doing here on JT is akin to wearing your uniform to a political rally. Even if you disagree with me on other topics, you ought to show more respect to your uniform and the other men and women who proudly wear it.

Gawd, if you express your dislike for george bush you're just so evil. Muntadhar al-Zeidi is the only protester george bush has ever faced.

At least when John McCain went over seas, even with 100 armed soldiers and 3 helicopters, went out to visit the troops walking the streets and the visited the Iraqi citizens. george bush has only ever heard what Al-Maliki or other top members of congress. he's never heard from any citizens of Iraq. he's never gotten the chance to hear the songs of praise or had flowers thrown at him.

This is the first time he ever truthfully heard what the liberated people thought about him. I hope he recieved the greeting he was looking forward to.

And it's not just a few posters here on JT that were appreciative of Muntadhar al-Zeidi. It appears that there were all kinds of Iraqis that feel the very same way. Not something deserving of a liberator? Something deserving of a murdering invader.

Thank you Muntadhar al-Zeidi. < :-)

Man, name a Teddy Bear Mohammad and get imprisoned and perhaps stoned to death. Throw an object are at a leader and get rewarded.

Should never have invaded that country on the premise of WMD's and should not have invaded on the idea of "liberating" them. They should never have been liberated in the first place and if so, it sure as heck shouldn't have been the US doing it. Saddam should have remained; Bush should have re-befriended him, and then we would have been able to concentrate in Afghanistan.

BTW, how can something be so easily thrown at the president? Seems the Secret Service is lacking lately! Better put those jobs out to tender and strip them of their civil service status - they ain't worth it. That shoe could have been a grenade for all anyone knows while its in the air.

And it's not just a few posters here on JT that were appreciative of Muntadhar al-Zeidi.

Of course they do.

A day after the incident, al-Zeidi's three brothers and one sister gathered in al-Zeidi's simple, one-bedroom apartment in west Baghdad. The home was decorated with a poster of Latin American revolutionary leader Che Guevara, who is widely lionized in the Middle East.

He sports a Che Guevara T-shirt a man truly after their own hearts.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jNRHUv3d5re4SrbIqzQ6xGu5aDmgD953GE080

sailwind I like your link. I liked this portion. Always like it when people are respected by their family members.

Family members expressed bewilderment over al-Zeidi's action and concern about his treatment in Iraqi custody. But they also expressed pride over his defiance of an American president who many Iraqis believe has destroyed their country.

"I swear to Allah, he is a hero," said his sister, who goes by the nickname Umm Firas (mother of Firas, her oldest son), as she watched a replay of her brother's attack on an Arabic satellite station. "May Allah protect him." < :-)

TimorBorder -

Don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of the US, having 30 or so friends posted here and there helping fight the war on Terrorism. At the same time, however, I ain't a Bush fan. So what does that make me? OBL's shower buddy?

Absolutely not. It makes you a person who understands that supporting the US and being against bush are not mutually exclusive. I commend you for that.

The cardinal rule of journalism is never to become part of your story.

Let's see now... how many shoes were buried as a result of the WTC attacks? Sorry but I find myself with ZERO sympathy for hateful, blood-lusty Muslims who attack innocent people around the world as a matter of their 'peaceful religion'.

It's a pity those shoes weren't golf shoes or steel caps. It's also a pity he wasn't accurate. Nevertheless, the symbolism of this journalist's gestures pretty much sums up the hatred the world has of the clown. Bush Jr is old news and history will judge him fairly to be a village idiot.

When the protestors came out to stop the war here in the states they numbered in the 100k+ range. When people came out to show support of their new shoe hero it was under 10k. Seems either Iraqis dont like public displays or the media is over hyping again.

Serving in the military you have to cringe when you hear of a person doing that to your leader, even if you dont like it, because they see you on the front line not him.

Funny part is an Arb reporter was the guy who took him down after he threw the shoe. Dumb move on the shoe throwers part, but at least it isnt going to get him and his family killed for doing it.

Like Bush or not you have to say he sure dodged that shoe well. Hope the next president can dodge the things thrown at him by his fans. Since we now think its ok to throw things at world leaders.

The article clearly gave a quote from a teacher in Iraq, and mentioned thousands of protesters. There was no mention of people who do not support Muntadhar, so they obviously don't exist.

Superlib, you certainly have wit! But I think its natural that Bush supporters did not rush out, but rather the Muntadhar supporters did first. If the Bush supporters do come out to protest the Muntadhar supports in the coming days, and the media reports it, I suspect there will be belly-aching that the counter-protests were not given enough newspaper space, attention, or emphasis. But then I doubt many will not bother, for both the reasons that they do not appreciate Bush and the simple fact that counter-protest is not really so commonly done unless the counter feeling is really really strong. I don't expect it is.

Yeah, Iraqis hailed Bush when Saddam fell. I think Bush used up that goodwill. You can't just rest on your laurels when your work has erupted in chaos and expect everyone to ignore the here and now for what you did yesterday.

this numbskull is a sunni, the same tribe as Saddam Hussien, the same group of Muslims that adhere to Wahhabism. The same people who carried out 911, the bali attacks, the london and madrid railway attack and countless others. claiming this guy represents how the majority of Iraqis (kurd, shia and non radical sunni) is a load of crap.

i know the revisionists have been hard at work but those of us that are not vulnerable to the disinformation of the mass media and the chattering class have not forgotten the suffering of the kurds and the shia at the hands of the ruling sunni minority; a situation similiar to South Africa's apartied minus the mustard gas, human shredders and systematic rapes and execution. The world stood together to defeat apartied but it turned its back on the Iraqi kurd and shia. it is this fact that history will be kind to George Bush and the gnashing of teeth and their revisionist attempts of leftwing zealots will fail. for a dumb guy, George Bush is a helluva lot smarter than his enemies. They can't even hit him with a shoe from 6 feet away.

No sane Iraqi yearns for the "good old days of stability" under Saddam. They hung the bastard for goodness sakeshis nose had he not ducked.

Ahem. If putting Saddam back in power would have taken them right back to 2003 putting the country back together and resurrecting the dead, and the invasion could be averted, you cannot say with any certainty at all that they would not have done it.

Most hated Saddam. Okay? Please hang on to that. They hung him because they have no choice but to move forward and they hate him. Re-installing Saddam would not have generated instant stability either. So they move forward with other leaders.

claiming this guy represents how the majority of Iraqis (kurd, shia and non radical sunni) is a load of crap.

Except that many have taken to the streets to cheer him and demand his release. Did you miss the memo?

When the protestors came out to stop the war here in the states they numbered in the 100k+ range. When people came out to show support of their new shoe hero it was under 10k. Seems either Iraqis dont like public displays or the media is over hyping again.

The war was long in coming. Shoe bomber 2 was unexpected. Give it time.

VOR - No Iraqis were involved in the 9/11 attacks. Saddam Hussein wasn't involved in 9/11 like you want to tie a connection here.

The world will forever remember the lies created by george bush, dick cheney, doug feith and the CIA to attack and murder 100,000s of innocent people. Something that the right-wing over and over again fail to recognize or respect.

All that the Iraqis got to do was, for one of their own, to throw two shoes at george bush. In the 6 years that we've been in Iraq george bush has never gone in not under the cloak of darkness. he's never faced the Iraqi citizens. he has stayed away from the Iraqi citizens he so proudly liberated.

Not a bad shot for 20 feet away. < :-)

adaydream:

The world will forever remember the lies created by george bush, dick cheney, doug feith and the CIA to attack and murder 100,000s of innocent people.

Will they? The article above says the "turmoil" in Iraq (wouldn't want to highlight the thousand -year blood feud at the center of the 'Religion of Peace now would we...) has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths.

If it is all about mere numbers I would contend the deaths have been offset by the number of lives saved as a result of humanitarian aid the US and allied forces provide and of course by the demise of Saddam Hussein and his Nazi-inspired Baathist regime.

That's another point where our opinions differ. < :-)

TooFarGone: "Will they?"

They most certainly will, yes. And along with all his failures, bush will be remembered as the most powerful man in the world, ducking a shoe from a mere Arab reporter.

I think it was sarge, and perhaps a few others, who came on here yesterday and said this reporter 'is ONE man', while the rest of Iraqis supported bush. I said it was bull yesterday, and clearly you have the proof that it was indeed bull, and this man is a hero; and not only to other Arabs, Kurds, Muslims, and what not, but to millions of Americans who would love to do the same but haven't yet had the chance.

Here's my recommendation: why doesn't bush make a shoe-tossing booth, with himself at the target. Cost is $10 a shoe, $5 for kids. He can put the money towards the US economy which he helped destroy. I'm willing to bet he puts a good dent in the debt owed and he can actually thereafter be remembered as a president who worked FOR the country instead of against it. When people are done throwing their shoes in the US, he can tour the world collecting funds for the US in the same manner. Cleats and steel-toed boots are not permitted, of course. Nor are pumps.

Whether through incompetence or willful ignorance, Bush made some major mistakes on Iraq and a lot of people died or were murdered for it. That doesn't mean he gets all the blame by far, but as he's personally said himself that does make him responsible. People are going to be pissed at him, and while attacking him with a shoe is wrong it's absurd to think Bush hasn't done far worse to the world.

Last post meant to say "any comparisons to Saddam"

If it is all about mere numbers I would contend the deaths have been offset by the number of lives saved as a result of humanitarian aid the US and allied forces provide and of course by the demise of Saddam Hussein and his Nazi-inspired Baathist regime.

But have you got any numbers?

(wouldn't want to highlight the thousand -year blood feud at the center of the 'Religion of Peace now would we...)

Since Saddam had put a stop to it, no we wouldn't. We actually don't want to pat Saddam on the back for anything, so don't force our hands.

Well, I just hope there aren't going to be any killings in the name of a shoe tosser.. I really wouldn't put it past many Muslim to act on his behalf.

"this man ( the shoe hurler ) is a hero"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! More like an imbecile!

"this Iraqi brave man Muntadhar"

Brave? Pffft! He knows the only thing that'll happen to him is a TV/book deal. If he'd thrown his shoes at Saddam, then, yeah, he'd be brave.

sarge: "Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! More like an imbecile!"

exact same thing said by millions, if not billions, about bush.

As the sayin' goes:

"I complained because I had no feet... then I met a man who had no shoes."

Imagine, the US comes into your country and does your dirty work for you, provides the planet with one less dictator, (?) and creates an environment of self rule and governing

Unklesam, the question mark I inserted is the 2 and a half years Iraq either had no government or had a U.S. imposed government. But if those 2 and half years as well as the chaos and violence that extended well beyond the period are considered inconvenient by you, you know, feel free to leave them out.

The Iraqis are ungrateful like an abused kid is ungrateful to his dad for the roof he put over his head. Those kinds of dads also like to omit certain inconvenient facts.

I'm going to take a moment and remember 500 other Iraqi journalists who will never get their 15 minutes of fame that this guy now enjoys.

The International Alliance for Justice, a human rights organisation that is calling for the creation of an International Criminal Court to judge the Iraqi leaders for war crimes, has drawn up a list of the writers, artists, poets and journalists who have been murdered by Saddam Hussein’s regime. According to this organisation, over 500 of them have been executed since 1968 and hundreds more have been forced into exile. The Iraq Press agency, which has relations with the exiled newspaper Azzaman, reported that in the single year of 2001, 50 journalists fled the crackdowns initiated by Saddam Hussein’s older son, Uday. Saad Al-Bazzaz estimated that some 400 Iraqi journalists and press operatives are now living in exile, including the country’s most talented writers. As for the regime, it has a complete list of all journalists who have fled Iraq, whom it calls "traitors" and whom it does not hesitate to hunt down abroad. Since Saddam Hussein became President of Iraq, dozens of journalists have disappeared and only the Baghdad government knows what has become of them.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=5008

he may not be a hero, but he was sure brave -How many people do you know would try to run away in their socks?

But then again he could be part of the crazy media. -Where do they find these people? 0_0 ?

TooFarGone: "Significance: zero."

I agree, your comment has absolutely zero significance, so what's your point? You guys claim bush is the most powerful man in the world and a great leader. Here your Average Joe rightfully throws a shoe at him. This is how bush is going to be remembered as president: even your average shoe-tosser telling him to get lost and that he did a bad job.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, bush.

Who cares? Their country still sucks.

Yeah, we should really do something about that.

It's alleged he was severly beaten in custody....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7785338.stm

If this turns out to be true, I wonder if the invasions aplogists/revisionists will retracting their statements about how life is great since W ordered the bombing of Iraq, heh, or whether the Blinkers will simply be tightened notch...

Boy oh boy, someone's gauntlet got snatched up pretty darn quick.

When facing the American radical, accountability remains your best weapon.

As for the reporter, agree or disagree with his motive, he violated one of the first rules of journalism; he became the story.

Smitty,

I think that was the person, not the comment.

Taka

he violated one of the first rules of journalism; he became the story.

almost true, but at the same time this journalist taught the meaning of 'surprise visit' to Western Media, he truely made it a "surprise" visit for so called world's most powerful president !

likeitis: Except that many have taken to the streets to cheer him and demand his release. Did you miss the memo?

You and I both know that protests from Sadr City don't necessarily reflect the views of Iraq as a whole just as minority protests on the outskirts of Paris don't represent the French as a whole. Most people don't know that Sadr City is a highly radical area, but the media always seems to write the reaction of people from that part of Iraq in a lot of articles.

By the way, I'd be more than happy to help you research the civilian casualties in Iraq.

It may have started with Sadr City, but the fevour is spreading to the whole middle east...

Much like the trouble in Greece, there are clearly others pushing their agenda's and co-ercing the rioters to riot.

he wasn't beaten -he had shoes thrown at him!

Eye for an Eye. (and shoes can hurt!)

this is Iraq: Liberals need to understand that. You try to screw somebody over and expect a shoe(s) in the face. Send him to G-Mo with the other shoe terrorists.

madverts: If this turns out to be true, I wonder if the invasions aplogists/revisionists will retracting their statements about how life is great since W ordered the bombing of Iraq, heh, or whether the Blinkers will simply be tightened notch...

He was beaten by Iraqis then flown to an American hospital for treatment? Oh, the irony!

I'm not sure how you find it amusing.

If he was beaten severely in custody, it's no different the Saddam era you claim to have erradicated. And the fact that he can't be taken to a Baghdad hospital, tends to suggest they're over-run.

I'll leave that response hanging in the air.

Mission Accomplished.

What Madverts said.

Muntadar al-Zaidi has suffered a broken hand, broken ribs and internal bleeding, as well as an eye injury

But he's still alive, so that's OK.

The shoes themselves are said to have attracted bids from around the Arab world. According to unconfirmed newspaper reports, the former coach of the Iraqi national football team, Adnan Hamad, has offered $100,000 (£65,000) for the shoes, while a Saudi citizen has apparently offered $10m (£6.5m).

At least he'll be able to pay his medical bills.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7785338.stm

Kudos to Nick Kristof for thinking out of the box:

[A NY} Times article about the Saudi offer [a prince put up USD 10 million for a shoe] says that the shoe-thrower is a hero around Iraq, and indeed in much of the Arab world. That suggests that the resale market for shoes thrown at Mr. Bush is fairly deep. And in this difficult economic environment, can we as a nation overlook any way of raising money?

Couldn’t we trot out Mr. Bush before a series of, er, unfriendly audiences, with a White house aide then designated to collect the shoes and auction them off? (To protect Mr. Bush, we could insist that attendees wear only slippers, but in any case he seems to have excellent reflexes and is a pretty good sport.) My own research suggests that a three-week presidential tour of the Islamic world, Latin America and Western Europe would generate a considerable number of flying shoes. Even if there are diminishing returns and we can sell them for an average of only $3 million each, that could bring hundreds of millions of dollars into the Treasury. If a Saudi will pay $10 million for a single shoe that missed the president, consider the income-earning potential of a pair of slippers that actually grazed a presidential ear, perhaps autographed by him as well? Given that a lame-duck president doesn’t have much else to do, Mr. Bush might as well spend his final weeks raising money to pay for a fiscal stimulus, and the United States might capitalize on his global unpopularity.

Let's see now... how many shoes were buried as a result of the WTC attacks? Sorry but I find myself with ZERO sympathy for hateful, blood-lusty Muslims who attack innocent people around the world as a matter of their 'peaceful religion'.

Lets see now, how many hundreds of thousands did bush the christian murder in Iraq because he claims he heard God tell him to invade Iraq? Do you winger types stay up nights coming up with your thick statements? And as liberals have posted millions of times now it was not Iraq that attacked the USA on 9-11. How many decades will it take for that to sink in? Probably forever.

The big, bad BBC:"The shoes themselves are said to have attracted bids from around the Arab world. According to unconfirmed newspaper reports [at the BBC? Nah, impossible...] , the former coach of the Iraqi national football team, Adnan Hamad, has offered $100,000 (£65,000) for the shoes, while a Saudi citizen has apparently offered $10m (£6.5m)."

10 million bucks? Hilarious. The civilized world is spending its money on education, fighting cancer and heart disease, developing electric cars, exploring space, stem cell research, conflict resolution, etc.

This story is fast becoming one of those rare but authentic exposes of the Arab - Muslim world.

'Liberal' western journos like those at the BBC have again unwittingly exposed how truly backward are a group of 'oppressed' - but ridiculously wealthy - people whose anti-Western cause they hope to champion.

Good work!

"Sorry but I find myself with ZERO sympathy for hateful, blood-lusty Muslims who attack innocent people around the world as a matter of their 'peaceful religion'."

Glad this guy wasn't one of them -- he was an Arab journalist who attacked a hateful, blood-thirsty Christian who attacks and in the process innocent people around the world as a matter of his 'peaceful religion' and what he calls 'democracy'.

This man threw a shoe... bush has himself allowed far more than that to be thrown, and with far more disastrous results. This has NOTHING to do with 9/11 and the people responsible, save that this shoe-throwing man was representing the thousands and thousands of innocents killed by the war in Iraq, and the suffering of the millions besides.

Just yesterday a few of the very few remaining bush supporters tried to brush this off as 'one man', with everyone else supporting bush and thanking god he saved them, etc. Now it's clear that world-wide this man is a hero, while bush is getting the recognition as the villain he is, and that makes said bush supporters angry and want to lash out, tying this man to the terrorists who killed thousands in 9/11. Not at all related, my friend... not one iota, much as that doesn't help you.

I watched the video footage again and do have to say bush cowered faster than I've seen him yet... which shoes he has pretty good reflexes. Maybe he's been practicing? In either case, it'll come in handy for his bleak future.

10 million bucks? Hilarious. The civilized world is spending its money on education, fighting cancer and heart disease, developing electric cars, exploring space, stem cell research, conflict resolution, etc.

civilized world? name atleast one country to guide myself in right direction.

TooFarGone: "10 million bucks? Hilarious. The civilized world is spending its money on education, fighting cancer and heart disease, developing electric cars, exploring space, stem cell research, conflict resolution, etc."

I just COULDN'T let this one pass by without laughing.... almost every one of those things you mention bush has either personally sided against, or simply failed in. Stem cell research?? Bush is 100% against it, remember? Conflict resolution??? Electric cars??? This from the guy who says if you don't drive a huge, gas-guzzling SUV you're not an American? HAHAhaha!

Too much, my friend... too much! Thank god I wasn't drinking anything at the time I read your post.

Yeah, 10 million for a mere shoe... they've got the cash for it, same someone paying 10 million for something far less symbolic to others. What of it?

toogone,

"The civilized world is spending its money on education, fighting cancer and heart disease, developing electric cars, exploring space, stem cell research, conflict resolution, etc."

This expalins cases like Paris Hilton and Brittney spears. Maybe they will be bidding for the shoes too.

Heh, you too funny bro.

The civilized world is spending its money on education, fighting cancer and heart disease, developing electric cars, exploring space, stem cell research, conflict resolution, etc.

Betcha the average citizen of the civilized world is much more conversant on the latest travails of Brittney Spears that the status of any of these issues, or the situation in Iraq. The shoe-thrower managed to draw their attention to the issue of of using military might to promote democratization.

Cleo,

I'd wager the "hero" of the hour won't be getting the dosh for the shoes. And even if he does, it may only pay his way out of the "new" Iraqi prison system.

Meet the new boss, and all that....

Madverts: If he was beaten severely in custody, it's no different the Saddam era you claim to have erradicated.

If it were no different then you'd be fighting to keep his handlers in power. But I do love the irony when you stand up to fight for the rights of this one man after ignoring the plight of a few hundred thousand at the hands of Saddam. If that doesn't show how the anti-war crowd is able to eliminate Saddam's crimes from their minds, I don't know what does.

Madverts: And the fact that he can't be taken to a Baghdad hospital, tends to suggest they're over-run.

Either that or they thought he would be safer at the US base. I guess it just depends on what "guess" you wanna make.

Betzee: The shoe-thrower managed to draw their attention to the issue of of using military might to promote democratization.

I've been waiting for you to tell us how Bush's embarrassment could be the best thing to happen to him. Remember when Ahmenijhad was embarrassed at Columbia? Back then your endless cut and paste posts were about how his bad treatment just emboldened his supporters and that he couldn't have asked for a better gift. I figured you'd pop a cut and paste or two about that but so far I've yet to see it. ;)

Let's just hope that a shoe isn't thrown at Obama after he increases troop levels in Afghanistan, then makes a visit. I won't have to change my position.....will you? ;)

"But I do love the irony when you stand up to fight for the rights of this one man after ignoring the plight of a few hundred thousand at the hands of Saddam. "

I didn't ignore their plight - your un-shelving your intellectually dishonest invasion argument again, the one I've previously dealt with on many occasions...

"Either that or they thought he would be safer at the US base. I guess it just depends on what "guess" you wanna make."

Either way, your simply confirming the fact that Iraq is in a pretty sorry state, when even someone who is seen in the muslim world as some sort of Mohammedian Warrior on a white stallion charging into the press room to attack Dubya isn't even safe on the streets of Baghdad.

Heh, let's face the old nemisis here, and admit Mohammed himself wouldn't be safe sauntering down the steet in the new Iraq...

"Let's just hope that a shoe isn't thrown at Obama after he increases troop levels in Afghanistan, then makes a visit. I won't have to change my position.....will you?"

People, especially non-American westerners are putting far too much money on the Obama presidency. For one, he has to clean up after the catatrophe of 8 years of Bush Co, and Iraq, which is a whole catastophe on it's own - but he also has to live up to the expectations of these people who have put him up there on the pedestal, which is an impossible task, even for Clark Kent in tights...

I too take my hat off to al-Zeidi I think it's great that he stood up and hurled his hoes at Bush. I hope they let him out of jail ASAP as he is just showing the contempt that so many ordinary people feel. Too bad he didn't clock him right in his goofy smile.

It's ironic that this coward whips his shoes at the guy who helped give him that freedom to do it.

I say "coward" because he wouldn't whip his shoes at the leaders of Egypt, Syria or any other Arab dictator 'cause he knows he'd've been dismembered on the spot.

Much of the Arab world is celebratin' this guy as a "hero" when he's nothing but an oportunistic coward. And that typifies again the ignorance of large numbers of people livin' in Islamo-fascist states.

usaexpat, and we're glad you are.

This is proof of our success in Iraq. Let freedom whizz!

This is proof of our success in Iraq. Let freedom whizz!

Exactly, exactly, also your favorite quote for 100m buck shoes : Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

What no one's really talking about is the fact that this guy is a reporter responsible for giving the world information about Iraq. With that much anger at Bush and the US, can one really believe that he's impartial when he reports?

UsaRonin: Since you simply cut and pasted your comment from the other thread to this one and could come up with nothing original (or from this thread to that one), I'll simply cut and paste my response.

"I say "coward" because he wouldn't whip his shoes at the leaders of Egypt, Syria or any other Arab dictator 'cause he knows he'd've been dismembered on the spot."

How is he a coward for throwing his shoe at the world's 'most powerful man' (who incidenctally was too much of a coward to go fight himself in a war)? Perhaps he didn't feel the need to whip his shoes at the other leaders you mentioned. Maybe the US is indirectly or directly responsible for the deaths of people he loves, and not the other leaders. And if he's a coward for not doing so with the other leaders, so is bush for not attacking other leaders when he knows he can't get away with it, and only attacking one sovereign nation with an evil dictator.

You see? your comments can easily be directed back to the source.

"Much of the Arab world is celebratin' this guy as a "hero" when he's nothing but an oportunistic coward. And that typifies again the ignorance of large numbers of people livin' in Islamo-fascist states."

Exact same about bush, except that he's not living in an Islamic state, nor is he considered a hero by the world. The opportunistic coward part? for srue!

SuperLib: "What no one's really talking about is the fact that this guy is a reporter responsible for giving the world information about Iraq. With that much anger at Bush and the US, can one really believe that he's impartial when he reports?"

I'd say he delivered one of the most poignant messages to the public in all of modern media: bush is a villain, he is hated, and he is certainly not needed or thanked. It's got more media attention world-wide than even the last US election... at least for the moment. It reported to the world how many people feel about bush, much to the chagrin and protests of the few remaining bush supporters. If you doubt it, then why is the man now an international hero, while bush is even more of a laughing stock?

It's just a shame the shoes didn't smack him across the face... or at least one of them. I'll concede the point that bush has decent reflexes. They'll help him when the next news conference plays out... hahaha.

Predictably, the Left is rushing to defend the shoe-hurling nutjob.The LA Times, with the usual moral inversion, compares him to Joe the Plumber.

"In the few seconds it took Iraqi journalist Muntather Zaidi to wing a pair of shoes at President Bush, the Middle East got its own version of Joe the Plumber.

"Just as Joe Wurzelbacher's gripes to Barack Obama during the U.S. presidential election catapulted him to fame, Zaidi's burst of rage toward Bush during a Baghdad news conference Sunday has made him a household name across the Middle East." http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-shoeman16-2008dec16,0,921081.story

So yesterday I pissed on a picture of Bush, then ripped up a picture of Stephen Harper, spit on a picture of Aso, and finished off my day by slapping my shoes on a picture of the Queen of England..

Im a hero now according to some. I say that because people say Bush is EVIL and I pissed on his photo, Mr Harper is equal to Bush and I ripped up his picture, Aso is said to be as bad as Bush and I spit on his picture, and of Course England has invaded and killed every country in the world at least once, forced its rule on so many cultures we cant even count them and slapped my shoes on that evil countries Queen.

Did I just give the best media report in the world now?

Come on some of you sound like kids on a play ground, grow up. Consider for a fact that what the guy did was just simply stupid.If He wanted to stand up and say Bush is an ass he would of gained much more credibility. What he did was fuel the anti Arab feeling many on the world have. Too bad he has a cheerleading team who dont understand its a negative (what he did) to his religion, his race, and his people.

Look, it's all fine and well to lecture the Iraqis and their journalists about how things are done "in civilized society," but the reality is that GWB has rarely had to confront the sentiments expressed by those who disagreed with his actions. "We're going to be treated like liberators" he famously declared. How could he be so confident? Because every pre-screened Iraqi visitor to the Oval Office told him so. Those who felt otherwise were never going to get their feet in the door.

I can stll recall Laura Bush proclaiming every one they met on a visit to the UK in 2003 "was very welcoming." That's because those who weren't were kept out of sight. But trust me, they were there all right.

Personally, I don't engage in tossing pies or eggs or whatever myself, but then again I don't live in a country where citizens have been told they should express gratitude for democratization at gunpoint by a foreign power uninterested in how it would play out. Betcha the Iraqis haven't forgotten Donald Rumsfeld's famously dismissive "stuff happens" response for why we were so unprepared for the massive looting that followed the toppling of Saddam, literally and figuratively.

As for whether GWB and his supporters are right, namely this is an example of democracy in action which offers a sharp contrast to the reaction tossing a shoe at Saddam would have provoked, we need to wait and see what happens to Zaidi.

Well,the "famous" shoes thrower is in hospital now,with broken arms or legs or something ; lucky him ,he is still in one piece and not in a coffin. Bush made a grave mistake to allow people looting governments offices after the fall of Bagdad without punishment to maintain law and order. This current Iraqi government is smarter...without law and order ,no way you can govern Iraq.

Well, it is the Iraqi government's job to protect foreign visitors, even if they really didn't have any choice in inviting them. That's why the Secret Service didn't take the shoe for GWB. Maliki lost face over the incident.

Some will say, the journalist should have conveyed his views through peaceful protest. Just like all the demonstrators in London whom the Bushes didn't see and therefore concluded, didn't exist (liberal media reports to the contrary).

Good on Ya Betzee

Keep saying how you don't approve of what he did yet tie in everything you can about how bad Bush is. I enjoyed the Rumsfeld tie-in masterful stuff on your part.

You know how Iraqi's think and can channel Bush at the same time.

Wow

I'd probably have felt the same sense of frustration. I don't know the journalist's take on the removal of Saddam - maybe he felt that was a good and necessary thing - but he's well in his rights to criticise the way other things have been managed and played out. The unmitigated hubris of Bush in his many statements about 'winning' and 'saving' the country with democracy is enough to make anyone uneasy. I'm not even an American and his frothing self-congratulation made me embarrased.

As for al-Zeidi's technique, I think it was simple and honest. Press conferences and publicity stunts have more careful wording and spin than newly-minted "talent's" first song. You can't reinterpret or flip someone's shoes back at them in your favour.

Well, it is the Iraqi government's job to protect foreign visitors, even if they really didn't have any choice in inviting them. That's why the Secret Service didn't take the shoe for GWB. Maliki lost face over the incident.

Well, if you watch the video carefully, you will notice that Maliki tried to catch the second shoe then hesitated. Maybe he thought , why should he risk his fingers to protect a criminal like Bush. The comments Bush made after the incident, showed how little respect he has for Iraqis. After all, the second shoe was for the widows and the innocent kids.

Nippon5: "So yesterday I pissed on a picture of Bush, then ripped up a picture of Stephen Harper, spit on a picture of Aso, and finished off my day by slapping my shoes on a picture of the Queen of England.."

I'm glad you believe Stephen Harper is equal to if not better than bush (he IS better, but that's beside the point), but what could he possibly have done... bore you to death? And the Queen of England? She bore you to death, too? Did Aso's constant gaffes make you spill coffee on your keyboard? In other words, can't quite grasp why you would even bother going to all the work of doing those things to the other pictures, or trying to insult the people who belong to the same nationality -- it's a waste of time. As for bush's picture, number two is a bit more insulting and more of what bush deserves, though you might want to switch to newspaper instead of the glossy matte print you have on your wall.

Anyway, the guy may well have had more credibility by simply saying bush is an ass, as you say, but he's certainly more well known and a hero for doing exactly what he did.

sailwind: "Keep saying how you don't approve of what he did yet tie in everything you can about how bad Bush is."

Here we go with the, 'if you don't agree with the shoe-tossing, you must love bush. If you think bush did something wrong, you therefore love the shoe-tosser' black and white argument. Grow up a little, sailwind. We know you guys are furious over the blatant example of telling bush how much of an idiot he is and how he is respected around the world, but he deserved it.

Sailwind,

For someone so sensitive to the appearance of the "nanny state" in America you don't seem to mind imposing it on the Iraqis. That's right, we know what's best for them. For example, the reason people in Baghdad have fewer hours of electricity is so the limited supply can be shared with their village brethren. Under Saddam, the latter got nothing. Never mind most of the country's industry is located in Baghdad and can't run without electricity which isn't so crucial to the livelihood of goat herders.

Several soldiers captured this eloquently in 2006, noting the Iraqis had been humiliated by the need to rely on outsiders to liberate them. Some people love to play "Big Daddy," however, and are quite oblivious to how others perceive it. Perhaps we should chalk up what GWB endured in Baghdad to a little teenage rebellion.

smith: I'd say he delivered one of the most poignant messages to the public in all of modern media

I'm not really sure what you're saying. My point is that this guy was a reported charged with educating people about what's going on in Iraq. He's proven that he's not impartial in any way. I understand that you don't support the war so you support biased journalists who agree with you, but overall I think it's a dangerous practice since one day you might be on the other side of that argument.

A little history on the new Arab hero, brave shoe-tosser Muntadhar al-Zeidi:

"...Al-Zeidi [the tosser] may have also been motivated by what a colleague described as a boastful, showoff personality.

'He tried to raise topics to show that nobody is as smart as he is,' said Zanko Ahmed, a Kurdish journalist who attended a journalism training course with al-Zeidi in Lebanon.

Ahmed recalled that al-Zeidi spoke glowingly of anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, whose followers organized protests Monday to demand his release.

'Regrettably, he didn't learn anything from the course in Lebanon, where we were taught ethics of journalism and how to be detached and neutral,' Ahmed said."

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/bridget/archives/2008/12/shoechucker-supposedly-hates-i.html

You know how when somebody does something and it's seen as a heroic act, get children named after them.

There will be plenty of male children named Muntadhar al-Zeidi. It'll be a name of honor. < :-)

Where the hell was the Secret Service? Shouldn't they have at least blocked the second shoe?

TooFarGone, its interesting that you attack his character. But it won't work. In the back of people's minds, they know, as I know in the front of mine, that it usually takes a person of flawed character to do something so many of us want to do but hold back.

Attacking his character changes nothing on how this will be viewed and how he will be viewed as a hero. History is littered with such heroes. It only matters that he did something so many could not do themselves. They will call him a hero almost no matter what. You are going to have to do a lot better than that to even dent the armor.

Where the hell was the Secret Service? Shouldn't they have at least blocked the second shoe?

They were probably a heck of a lot more worried about external security. The best and brightest, the few who could have had such a response as you ask to such a pitch from left field, were probably out where they were more needed.

The Secret Service was at the snack table.

The Secret was getting a smoke while he was being interviewed.

The Secret Service was checking out his reactions.

The Secret Service wanted him winged.

The Secret Service wanted to see if Al-Maliki could catch a shoe.

The Secret Service dropped their guard. < :-)

Here we go with the, 'if you don't agree with the shoe-tossing, you must love bush. If you think bush did something wrong, you therefore love the shoe-tosser' black and white argument. Grow up a little, sailwind.

You support the juvenile stunt that this guy did 100 percent to make his point and then you ask me "to grow up a little"?

Incredible......Pot meet Kettle

Well, if you watch the video carefully, you will notice that Maliki tried to catch the second shoe then hesitated. Maybe he thought , why should he risk his fingers to protect a criminal like Bush.

Redninja, the only way he could have blocked that shot would have been to push Bush aside. It was out of his reach. Further, his stiff reaction to it spoke of a man who works a desk job. I give him credit for trying, and for apparently realizing he would do more harm than good putting any more effort into making hand contact with the shoe.

And Bush did an amazing job dodging. Its the only time I can remember feeling proud of this president, as much as I would have liked to see him loose some teeth.

Smith doing rude things to a world leader because you dont like the policies is wrong no matter who they are. With you its always "your a Bush lover" when someone points out Bush didnt do it by himself and he is at the core no different then any other political leader. I dont like Bush and never voted for him, but I'm not living to hate him as you are. I also am an adult and find the reporters behavior vile and childish. Even if the shoes had been thrown at the idiot who is in charge of Canada or the Idiot in charge of Japan. My point is simple, those who raise this man to the level of hero are just as stupid as he is for throwing the shoes. Hitler was a hero to many many people and still is today, does that make what he did right?

You blame everything on Bush even though the facts show many people are responsible. You say because he is the leader of the free world he is to take all the blame. In less 24 days everything that happens becomes Obamas issues. I wait to see if you say the same for him (when we go hard into Afghanistan and kill many many people, innocent and not)as you have for Bush.

I hold all those in goverment who made the decisions accountable for the situations we have today. I will do the same in the future. You on the other hand seem to be a broken record and never leave the groove that says BUSH DID IT. Hate to break it to you, but we are in for a long 4 years, and I think they will be far worse then now based on the promises made by Obama and the reality of the world. He is a hero to the same group that already showed how not to act, you know the groups who are killing innocents, looting stores. I have seen as many Iraqis call him a hero as I have I have seen Iraqis call him a fool who just made them look like idiots.

Zaidi, accused by the Iraqi government of a "barbaric and ignominious act" will be tried on charges of insulting the Iraqi state, said the Iraqi prime minister's media advisor, Yasin Majeed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article5354278.ece

http://baghdadbureau.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/brother-is-proud-of-shoe-tossing-iraqi-journalist/

It's ironic that this coward whips his shoes at the guy who helped give him that freedom to do it.

He is not free. Okay? He is in jail. See? Not free. Jailed. Nobody has the freedom to throw shoes at the U.S. president, not in Iraq, and not in the United States. If you do no believe me, I would love to suggest you give it a go, but I refrain from doing so.

Muntadhar might not be sliced up like an aji fish in a sashimi shop, but that is whole different ball of wax. We might call that freedom from excessive punishment, but I remind you, there is still time. I don't think any of us know what the punishment will be, formal or completely informal.

Thanks Nippon5 for the article

“He has got a broken arm and ribs and cuts to his eye and arm,” he said. “He is being held by forces under the command of Muwafaq al-Rubaie [Iraq’s national security adviser]." Television pictures from the press conference show Mr al-Zaidi being carried away by prime ministerial guards but there was no sign of excessive violence.

Well so much for freedom of shoe throwing and freedom from torture. Its a good thing we liberated Iraq so they could still not have these freedumbs. Bad enough so many of you were taken in up to now, but if you persist on viewing this as some sort of great irony because we gave him the freedumb to this you will make yourselves into a laughing stock.

But naturally its not because he chucked the shoes at Bush, its because he insulted the Iraqi state. I should have seen that one coming myself.

likeitis

How come you left this part out of the article???

according to his brother.

Yep.....must be true then.

According to The Associated Press, Al Baghdadia reported that Zaidi had been "seriously injured" during his detention and called on the government to allow lawyers and the Iraqi Red Crescent to visit him. Later, however, one of his brothers said that he had spoken by telephone with Zaidi, who told him, "Thank God, I am in good health," The AP reported.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/16/mideast/iraq.php

Which brother to believe?????

Which brother to believe?????

A good question. You might also ask, which article to believe.

A broken arm is a very specific injury. "In good health" is a very general state. If I had a broken arm but were not coughing or in shock or puking or other, I too might describe myself as "in good health". We will have to see.

If it was a lie, it was a pretty stupid one to make. How was I supposed know his brother was that dumb if it is a lie.

But what is up with lack of visitation by a lawyer and the the Red Cresent? Your article brings it up, yet completely dodges the question. Not saying it is, but it LOOKS like a quick damage control job.

How come you left this part out of the article???

Because it would have meant cutting and pasting another a whole other paragraph. Truth be told I would prefer to cut an paste the article in its entirety. But its not allowed and no one would read it. Making it out to be some kind of conspiracy is just ignorant.

I don't think any of us know what the punishment will be, formal or completely informal. The same could be said for those charged in your country

No one in either the country I come from nor the country I choose to live in can be charged with 'insulting the state'. There's no such crime.

My guess is he'd be charged with assault.

"My guess is he'd be charged with assault."

And my guess is that the internal power struggle that continues in today's Iraq will make the most of this incident to undermine the US installed government, like it or not.

That hardly changes the fact that the citizens of liberated Iraq voted in the politicians who drafted the laws making 'insulting the state' a punishable crime.

I can just about guarantee you that that law is a hold-over from the Saddam era if not before. These guys did not get their heads together and rebuild the Iraqi law books from scratch in between coffee breaks. They had to keep a sectarian violence torn country together, an inconvenient fact you like to forget.

And I think every single one of us does know that whatever happens to this big famous tosser Zaidi in his holding cell or in court it will be vastly more humanitarian than the 'justice' that Saddam and his henchmen meted out.

So we can safetly say you have backtracked. That is quite a bit different than saying "he was free to do this thanks to the invasion."

Sailwind, you caught me jumping the gun. Allow me to thank you. If not for that I would have made a complete ignoramous of myself.

You are indeed right to question the word of the brother. Your article says they talked by phone. That means either man could be lying or exaggerating. I saw a report that said the brother got the info via a third party. That is also suspect, even more so in fact. Here are some things I fished up:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/16/muntadhar-al-zeidi-who-is_n_151089.html

Turns out he once had the pleasure of having his place raided by the U.S. military. Despite their apology, he failed to warm up the the U.S. presence in Iraq. That and getting kidnapped by militants and released and very little explanation about it. But anyone who hates Bush so much could probably bad mouth the POTUS enough to be released.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=161446

Another report says he was hit in the head with a rifle butt after throwing his shoes.

You think they will let him out on bail? I would really like to see him get interviewed so don't have to resort all this guessing and uncomfirmed information. Suspicions mount as well they should.

That hardly changes the fact that the citizens of liberated Iraq voted in the politicians who drafted the laws making 'insulting the state' a punishable crime.

Wrong. Much of Iraqi law is Baathist in origin. The elected members of parliament simply reviewed and reaffirmed much of the legislation already on the books rather than starting afresh (God know how long that would have taken).

While Iraqi law apparently mandates a maximum sentence of two years for insulting a head of state, prosecutors have spoken of a seven-year prison sentence for Zeidi. That will only increase his folk-hero status on Arab Street, just as the Ohio state government's opening up multiple investigations on Joe the Plumber made his supporters feel his was being unfairly persecuted.

If this plays out the way Saddam's execution did, where the law was not followed, it won't help institutionalize rule of law in Iraq, a vital component of democracy. The Us govt does judicial independence rankings of other countries and I can't imagine Iraq's is too high.

My guess is he's going to make a bundle on TV/book deals.

My guess is he's going to make a bundle on TV/book deals.

Perhaps Baathist law prohibits profiting from a crime. Zaidi's already entered a plea of "guilty."

Hey, we don't even now if he was beaten severely in custody yet befoe we cinch the book deals. He hasn't even appeared in public, even the judge handling the case allegedly visited him in his cell which doesn't sound too above board to me.

I'm guessing his captors did him over too hard, and they daren't let pictures of the results get out less it causes more of a ruckus....

People really need to think about whether or not American blood should be shed to bring democracy to people who obviously aren't interested in it. Bush's "evil" policies have assured that this person can do something like this and not have his head roll, but no one acknowledges that. These days, I'm less and less looking down on people who say to me things like, "it's not our responsibility to stop those morons from killing themselves and sending their societies backward."

In the long run, I think the Iraqis will be better off, but will it be worth the blood shed in the process of bringing a better state? I don't think so anymore. Even if Obama isn't hated as much, I doubt he's going to be able to do much towards healing the destructive images the West and Middle East have of each other.

Even if Obama isn't hated as much, I doubt he's going to be able to do much towards healing the destructive images the West and Middle East have of each other.

Good point. Obama may not be hated as much, but the attitude of the "root cause" crowd will guarantee that he is hated to some degree. The people on the ultra right being against Obama is a given.

I asked an Iraqi colleague, a Catholic, what she thought: "It showed no class. Where did he think he was? The zoo?" She and her family suffered terribly under Saddam's rule, though she has no love for GWB. But that's not the point; it's about treating guests respectfully.

I've run into that in other parts of the world. I can remember eating dinner with the parents of a Chinese friend when Bill Clinton graced CCTV news. The family matriarch turned to me and said, "Excuse me, but I hate him." Her son pointed out American presidents were interchangeable in the minds of many Chinese, they were all meddlers and it was not directed at Slick Willy personally. I admired her ability to express courtesy and contempt in the same sentence.

The grievances expressed by the shoe thrower were not based on a generalized antipathy to America, however, but anger over the results of the U.S. invasion of his country. It's difficult to believe Al Gore would have led us into Iraq, this was something promoted by GWB with a singular passion (contrary to his current recollections). And like most utopians, he maintains his vision will be vindicated over the long-term and ignores the short-term outcome. Freedom will prevail.....

These days, I'm less and less looking down on people who say to me things like, "it's not our responsibility to stop those morons from killing themselves and sending their societies backward."

I know that feeling. But I think we do have a responsibility. It just stops short of direct military action and driving our economy into the dirt to do it.

In the long run, I think the Iraqis will be better off, but will it be worth the blood shed in the process of bringing a better state? I don't think so anymore. Even if Obama isn't hated as much, I doubt he's going to be able to do much towards healing the destructive images the West and Middle East have of each other.

Complete agreement. Some here swear the ends justifies the means, but as David Byrne sang "all that blood will never cover that mess."

From 16 hours ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/17/george-bush-shoe-throw

the president held "no hard feelings" about the incident and accepted it was up to Iraq to decide on any punishment.

George watched the guy get beaten for what he did. Yeah, I guess all is forgiven! He might not be commenting on that for the sake of political relations with the Iraqi govt, or not. I would never make it as a politician because I would have to say something, and just saying its up to them would not be good enough if the attack was against me.

The US state department said yesterday it would condemn "unnecessary force" used against Muntazer, but it did not know whether any had occurred.

Every minute that goes by proves there is something to hide. Amazing that the U.S. government doesn't know.

likeitis, judging by your previous comments on previous threads, I thought you were the kind of guy who liked to see evidence. But you're beating the abuse drum pretty loudly on this one.

Either you know something we don't know, or you're very smart in the sense that you know that past outrage can't be rolled back, it's simply stopped. ;)

But you're beating the abuse drum pretty loudly on this one.

No. I have backed off. But my suspicions remain strong and they get stronger as the evidence remains hidden.

I thought you were the kind of guy who liked to see evidence.

Darn right I do. Show it to me. This guy and this story has been dropped much too fast for my liking.

No. I have backed off.

To explain, I have read articles saying that he was beaten and kicked after throwing the shoes and that there was blood on the floor after he was taken away. That is confirmed enough for me to make statements I feel. But I am being more careful with what happened after that.

I'd personally like to thank this brave man for expressing an opinion that many AMERICANS share! He had the balls to stand up and tell the truth (and hurl a few size 10s in the process!) Let him be a hero to his people and let him go free!

Leave the Iraqi people to decide their own future and fate, it is NOT for America to decide!

What's up with these Arabs and their shoe throwing? What happened to a good old pie in the face?

Custard pies is bestest, mch better than shoes. You don't hurt the person, but they lokk bleeding stupid after.

shoes tend to be more practical than a pie, besides they can be worn and thrown impromptu. it's more amusement for the us though, as this insult's gravity isn't fully appreciated back home.

In Relation to Across Mideast, Arabs hail shoe-hurling journalist: I saw that video - Awesome! - I wish I had body guards to protect me when I screw up a nation for centuries... Never mind the 10.

Mr. 187, this shoe-throwin' gentleman has sinced apologized to Mr. Bush and the world for his childish behavior.

Mr. Shoe and you don't agree with one another.

In Relation to Across Mideast, Arabs hail shoe-hurling journalist: Who said anything about agreement? I like the aerodynamics of his shoes. Did you talk to them too?

All in relation to Across Mideast, Arabs hail shoe-hurling journalist.

Mr. 187, either the shoes you hail were not "aerodynamic" or your hero throws like a girl.

You can't have it both ways.

"How do you know how a girl throws?"

I'm heterosexual.

It was actually a little bit silly but on the other hand no one got hurt. Let it go. It could have been worse with many people getting harmed. Isn't it consider "good luck" to have shoes thrown at you?