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© Copyright 2016 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.Amid struggle for Syria deal, Obama and Putin to meet Monday
By KATHLEEN HENNESSEY and JOSH LEDERMAN HANGZHOU, China©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
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Aly Rustom
Neither side really cares about the syrian people. Putin continues to prop up the bloodthirsty regime, while Obama props up the bloodthirsty terrorists. All sides in this conflict are dispicable. The US and Russia in particular because if THEY agree on a solution the fighting would stop. They just don't care. Meanwhile, the people paying the price are the poor syrian people who are getting killed, maimed, traumatized, and displaced; courtesy of the second cold war.
ThePBot
No propping of terrorists, no bloodthirsty regime. I think there is a lesser of two evils here.
noriyosan73
It looks like Mr. Obama will be "out foxed" again by the bear.
CrazyJoe
Why does Obama keep sending Kerry to poker games when he has no cards to play?
Aly Rustom
No need for evil at all. Force Assad to leave, give the extremists a deadline to hand in their weapons, have an international coalition which includes moderates in the region such as Jordan and Egypt to fight those who don't cease the fighting, then hold internationally monitored free and fair elections.
Naturally, this is easier said than done. But what is important to realize is that the US and Russia really don't care about ending the conflict. This is a proxy war fought by these two superpowers and by the regional powers Iran and the Gulf states. Until the proxy war ends, the poor syrian people will know no peace.
Asakaze
Some people never learn. Look at Libya, look at Iraq. They forced a dictator to leave, they put nice guys to power, gave bad guys a deadline and made a coalition of the nicest guys to punish the bad guys. And what??
Aly Rustom
What caused the problems in Libya and Iraq as well as Afghanistan is the meddling of the superpowers into the MIdeast's business. Had Russia not meddled in the first place the syrians would have ousted Assad by themselves and we wouldn't have the problems we have today. Indeed, when the Russians leave, and you will, Assad will fall. Meanwhile, until that happens, the poor people of syria will continue to suffer.
FizzBit
You seem to have no idea of what's going on and who's doing the "meddling".
Start here..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201285133440424621.html
Asakaze
The war in Syria started in 2011, Russia entered the conflict in November 2015, four years after. Without Western, Saudi, Qatar support to the moderate and not very moderate terrorists the war would have ended in 2011-12.
Again, look at today Libya and Iraq and you'll see what can happen if Assad is gone.
And it is interesting to see some people, claiming to be Syrians, who prefer to see foreign troops to fight for their cause (and who said that Egyptians and Jordans are willing to intervene?), but who would't fight themselves, preferring comfort of Japan.
Aly Rustom
I'm very much aware of that pipeline
I am half syrian- my father was born and raised in Aleppo. DEAL WITH IT. What's YOUR connection to syria?
Another Russian lie. The Russians started meddling shortly after the 18 July 2012 Damascus bombing. At that time, Bashar was weaked and had it not been for Iranian RG and Russian money and weapons, he would have been gone by the summer and we NEVER would have had the situation we have now, and ISIS would not have even come to fruition. Once the Russians and Iranians started meddling, the Gulf States jumped in too. This is Russia's fault.
This is the same BS we hear from the west and russia every time. Give us our dictators because the alternative is much worse.
Russia, US, France- take your pick- all had revolutions followed by strife and/or civil war. But all these nations finally emerged better than they were before their revolutions. Why? Because there was no outside meddling into their affairs. They were, by and large, left to their own devices to sort out their differences. What has caused extremism to take root is the meddling in the affairs of the mideast by outsiders thereby prolonging the conflict and giving extremism a means to grow. Assad would have been out 4 years ago if it hadn't been for Iran and RUssia.
Russia, by the way, is the biggest hypocrite of all. It supports the bloodthirsty regime of Assad against the rebels and then turns around and supports the Ukrainian rebels against the government in Kiev. Pure hypocracy.
Strangerland
I have no idea when this is the truth and when it isn't, but it's certainly shown itself to be true in Saddam's case.
Aly Rustom
Its a self fulfilling prophecy. Cases in point:
Mubarak of Egypt: Stifled dissent and didn't allow any opposition parties to form EXCEPT for the muslim brotherhood, because he was banking on the fact that the west would never accept them. Yet at the same time he could say,"look we have an oppostion party. we are a democracy."
When the Syrian civil war erupted (and this was reported on MANY news channels,) the Assad regime and the Nusra Front did not target each other. They both tagteamed the Free Syrian Army, because in the beginning, the FSA was a secular and democratic opposition. However, they neither received aid nor weapons from the Gulf nor the West, so as a result they really had 2 choices: return to the regime or join the fanatics. As a result, most of the FSA joined up with the Nusra because there really was no other alternative. If the only opposition that exists today is fanatic, it is because that's how Assad wants it. AND still, Assad and Russia have not confronted IS. The US and now the Turks are doing that.
Bear in mind something else. Russia has no interest in seeing this war come to an end. We have already seen a Brexit partially due to the refugee crisis, and now some EU countries are putting up borders between each other. This is EXACTLY what Russia wants. The EU crisis has the makings to tear the EU apart. Nothing would make the Russians happier.
There have been many attempts at forming secular oppositions to the tyrants of the mideast. The people of the mideast do have democratic ambitions, yet how can they realize them when the US and Russia use the Arab World as a human chessboard?
Strangerland
None of your cases point to Saddam, and I was pretty clear that I was speaking of Saddam and only Saddam.
Iraq was a stable country with him in power. Look what happened to it after the Americans removed Saddam.
FizzBit
Well Aly, you're half Syrian, if that's true then you do have a "dog in this fight". Your feelings/opinions towards Assad is accepted.
But what about the weapons sent from Saudi Arabia found in Daraa in March of 2011. The uprising started there, conveniently close to the Jordon border I would add, and I believe the protestors fired on the police and civilians first. Exactly as they did in Kiev. I see a pattern here.
Maybe you are loyal to the Muslim Brotherhood, fair enough, but please don't come on here and try to tell us Russia is to blame. You will be compared to Hillary Clinton. Helping a legitimate government like Russia did, and fomenting a violent insurrection, like the US, Saudi and other Gulf States did, is very different. The latter being criminal.
Aly Rustom
Not at all. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed by Saddam. He also dragged his people into war with Iran and Kuwait. There was nothing stable about his regime.
And Iraq didn't have to be that way. Had an uprising naturally occured iraq would have been a completely different place. You are right that the Bush administration is responsible for what happened. They embraced a scumbag (al-maliki) who then formed Shite death squads which in turn led to Al Qaeda in Iraq, the forerunner of IS. Whenever a superpower invades a country, whether to aid or overthrow the gov, the outcome is always bad. Russia should not be in Syria. The US should not have gone into Iraq.
No offense, but I wasn't looking for your acceptance. I am half syrian. Its a part of me whether you choose to accept it or not. As far as I'm aware, I'm the only person here who has even set foot in the country. (Just a little fun fact for everyone here- I was in Syria December 2010 on my honeymoon when the arab spring started in Tunis and Bin Ali was ousted)
Please don't lower yourself by launching personal attacks. I am not loyal to the MB; and yes Russia is to blame.
And you will compared to Donald Trump, since he seems to have a soft spot for Putin.
So what is Russia doing in the Ukraine then?
FizzBit
Sorry, I didn't realize it was. They seem to be the anti-Assad crowd among many others, and it's a BIG crowd.
Of course you can say anything you like, the Sleestak are to blame, but the Saudi weapons in Daraa found in March 2011 say different.
You say that like its a bad thing...
Victoria (cookies & coup) was in Ukrian first.
Aly Rustom
There's a reason for that.
Say nothing of Russian and Iranian weapons that were funneled to the regime BEFORE Saudi Arabia got involved.
And Putin (weapons & rubles) was in Syria first
Look, Russia cannot claim the moral high ground here. They help the regime in Syria and help the rebels in the Ukraine. Pure hypocracy.
Lets not forget 1 thing: All of this started because Assad fired on unarmed protesters for 3 MONTHS before the protests turned into a war, and NOTHING will change that.
Asakaze
Russia does not help "the regime", it helps Syria to stay one country, not to degenerate into another Libya, a lawless bandland in the "Mad Max" style. Do you really think that IS, Nusra, Ashram and a myriad of other gangs will organize a free election if Assad gone?
Wrong again. Contrary to the situation in Syria, where majority of Syrians support Assad (it is the main reason why he is still in power) Donetsk / Lugansk regions by vast margin did not accept the neonazi coup in Ukraine, and the regime immediately threw tanks and guns against them. And Donetsk rebels do not cut heads of little kids, they do not use civilians as human shield and they do not stage provocations with "regime's attacks with chemical weapons" with the help of Saudi and Qatar instructors.
Aly Rustom
What a load of BS. You don't get to make up the history as you go along. Assad fired on his own people for 3 months before they began to fight back.
He would have been gone except for the Iranian republican guard and Hezbollah that jumped in to rescue him. In the end, he was so unpopular that even THEY couldn't help him. Russia had to come in.
Where do you think the FSA came from?
Syrian soldiers are fighting tooth and nail to the death, obviously they have a reason to do so.
Most of the syrian soldiers have defected. What you have now are ALOT of Iranians and shite lebanese fighting on the regime's side. Many of them are not syrian citizens.
Pure Russian Propaganda. If the Syrian people supported that dictator, why did 6 million leave the country? They could have gone to assad held areas. They chose to leave. And regardless of whether or not the Ukrainians support the government, its not Russia's business to overthrow one regime while supporting another.
No. Their help comes from Vlad the Dictator Putin.
ThePBot
Why? What do you have against the head of one of the most secular governments in the sectarian hole known as the Middle East?
The thing is, superpowers (like the US) did meddle in Syria by trying to help the Free Syrian Army/Jihadists (you call "Syrians"). If they had ousted Assad, they wouldn't have done it by themselves. Your blind to think Russia was the one who came in "in the first place". It doesn't matter what ethnicity you are. So what if you're half Syrian? Some of the jihadist rebels are full-blooded Syrian, but that doesn't make them righteous.
Asakaze
Oh, yesss! "Famous Spook Army"!!! I liked these guys since I read an article in the "Foreign Policy" how Americans spent 500 mil USD to train what they thought was an army, but turned out to be a bunch about 100-120 paycheck receivers. Wonderful racket they have.
And then who is fighting now? Iranians and Russians? And you believe in THAT? Russians may be have on the ground about 1 thousand soldiers, Iranians may be about 5-10 thousands soldiers. That's all.
Have you ever heard about the defence of Queiris (Kweiris) air force base? For three years about 600 Syrian army soldiers were completely surrounded, supplied only by air drops, but they held they ground despite numerous attacks. These heroes are real Syrians and patriots of Syria, not you.
What are you talking about? Russia never overthrown any regimes.
Please contact CIA. They have nothing on the subject, though they tried really hard. Enlighten them, and may be you'll become a high-value CIA asset (the pipe dream of all Syrian opposition).
Aly Rustom
Nothing, except for the fact that he is a brutal dictator who enjoys killing innocent civilians and destroying the whole country just for his selfish gains, and that he barrel bombs hospitals and schools and displaces the very people he is supposed to serve and protect. other than that, he's a lovely guy.
Then why did the Russians have to come in then,huh? Explain that one.
Just shows your ignorance about the whole conflict. Study it before commenting please. The russians and the Iranians jumped in around 2012 in the summer. When aid and weapons weren't enough, they actually had to put boots on the ground to save Assad's bacon. That alone would show anyone with common sense that he is reviled in the country. Except for the russia apologists.
The same can be said for Assad. As for me being half syrian, it does matter. Because it is one of the countries I call home. Have you been to Syria? Do you speak the language? Do you know the history? If not, why are you even commenting?
More Russian lies which no one believes. Like when you said that Russia took in 1 million refugees, when they only took 4000. The Putin supporters can't stop with misinformation and they think we will not fact check everything. There are hundreds of thousands of foreigners fighting for assad- russians, iranians, hezbolla, AND shite squads from Iraq. That's why he is still around.
You mean to say that they are patriots of Russia. Anyone who fights for a regime that kills its own people is not a patriot. Or maybe Putin's patriots. The heroes are the ones who are fighting against Assad and the Russians as well as IS. Interesting that neither Assad nor the Russians have engaged IS at all. That's been all the US and Turks. Your country will be defeated in syria like you were in afghanistan.
That's exactly what you are trying to do in Ukraine. Russia is the biggest hypocrite of all. Supporting one regime while trying to topple another.
By the sound of it, you are running out of intelligent arguments so now the silly stuff comes out.
Asakaze
What???? Hundreds of thousands?? Really? Not millions? Well, I know your FSA propaganda machine is a real piece of work, but that... And you have facts? Please, please share your precious information with the rest of the world, that would be fun.
Excellent example of denial and more FSA lie. Even Americans admit that the Syrian army and Russian aircraft fight IS, only you deny everything that does not fit.
Who "you"? Hundreds of thousands of Iranians? "By the sound of it, you are running out of intelligent arguments so now the silly stuff comes out".
Problems with understanding of texts? Read again that my post. I was arguing about refugees from Ukraine. Russia indeed accepted about 1 million refugees from Ukraine. May be even more.
Bashar and Syria - victory!
Aly Rustom
Ok here you are. These are all foreigners fighting for Assad. Syrians not included.
Hezbollah: 6,000–8,000 Russia: 4,000 troops[42] and 1,000 contractors Iran: 3,000–5,000 Other allied groups: 15,500
That's 33,500 fighting right now.
Lets add the pro Assad fighters who have already been killed
Hezbollah: 1,247–1,400 killed Other non-Syrian fighters: Iran 4,585 killed
95,663–121,663 fighters killed (
Total foreign fighters killed or still fighting for Assad = 161,148
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war
Its SOOOO easy to dispel russian propaganda. It is simple, silly, not well thought out lies. A little bit of digging on the internet and we can show everyone how Russia continues to lie.
More Russian Propaganda. That was the first criticism of Russia last year that they were bombing EVERYONE but Nusra and IS. This has been documented AND criticized by the EU, US, Arab League, and basically the whole world. You can scream all you want about FSA propaganda, but it is RT NEWS and russian propaganda that is desperately trying to hide the truth.
No. The Russian Hypocrites that support the Assad regime and then turn around and try to topple the government in Kiev. Pure hypocracy.
By the way, here is what your darling rebels in the Ukraine are doing:
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/10/11/5-eerie-similarities-between-pro-russian-rebels-in-east-ukraine-and-isis/
The bottom is really what you need to read. This is what your government supports.
**Human rights abuse
While the “rebels” in Ukraine don’t have a habit of taping the worst of their atrocities, that doesn’t mean they do not happen. Human Rights Watch has documented widespread detainment and torture of civilians and members of the press by separatists. Evidence of executions has also surfaced with the discovery of a mass grave in the town of Sloviansk weeks after Ukrainian government reestablished control over the area. This widespread persecution of dissenting voices and journalists echoes ISIS activities in the captured regions of Iraq, if lacking in scale. Various evidence also suggests the separatists use human shields by establishing firing positions in residential buildings and shell residential areas to shift the blame on Ukrainian forces.
Recently, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) began the process of identifying locations of concentration camps and mass graves created by the militants in Donbas and even placing them on a map. The advisor to the SBU drew a parallel with the events of twenty years ago in mass concentration camps in Srebrenica (Bosnia and Herzegovina), where violent and inhumane treatment was also performed, noting that the judiciary system has been replaced by retaliatory troikas that imprison people without charge or trial, torture them in basement cellars, and execute prisoners by shooting. Former POWs tell gruesome stories of their imprisonment, and militants themselves tell of terror, racketeering, rapes during interrogations.
Religious fundamentalism
ISIS, like many other terrorist organizations, is motivated by a radical religious doctrine, attracting followers from all over the world. While ISIS’s particular brand of Islam has been condemned by Muslim clerics all over the world, they consider their religion the only true one and will not hesitate to brutally persecute followers of others. Again, we find striking similarities in the insurgency in eastern Ukraine, where one unit is actually called Russian Orthodox Army, bearing disturbing ties with ultra-orthodox nationalists in Russia-proper and being obsessed with “reconquering” of Ukraine. This fundamentalism, condemned by the Ukrainian branch of the Russian Orthodox Church, goes beyond rhetoric, with widespread evictions, kidnappings, murders and denial of worship against Protestants, Catholics and Ukrainian Orthodox worshippers independent from Moscow. According to New York Times, the rebels view “Orthodox Christianity as a force to unite these now divided Slavic lands and also their own fractured movement”.
**
You mean..Syria - victory! Bashar and Putin, to the Hague.
FizzBit
Except for Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. Both largely supported by the warmonger Obama. But don't tell the lefties that, they might shit their pants.
Aly Rustom
wrong again. First, you need to know what the name of that brand is. It is called Wahabism. Second, it is NOT supported by the "Gulf States". It is only supported by SA and Qatar. No one else. UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, Yemen, etc.. NONE of them support or allow the practice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Regions