N Korean leader Kim Jong-Il dead at 69

Whoooooa

Great Leader of his own era, R.I.P.

I wonder if his son will be accepted as the New Leader by the population and I hope that he will change things there.

FINALLY, the self serving dictator has shown that he too is mortal. Question now is will things improve, stay the same, or get worse for N.Korea?

Excellent news. Christmas has come early for so many :)

Only concern now is what nutcase will take his place.

A dream to some. A nightmare to others.

Well, it's not the CIA reporting it this time so I guess it's believable. As for those celebrating the man's death, it's as bad as people celebrating the deaths of anyone else. Kim Jong Il was a bad guy, for sure, but all the same celebrating the loss of life isn't a shining example of humanity.

oh HAPPY DAY!!!!

Is this successor son the one that always comes over to Japan and goes to the 'lands?

South Korea, Japan, United States and probaly even China (for fear of refugees) is on high alert. Lets hope that whatever happens, the NKPLA doesn't take over with Jong Un as a puppet head.

@smithinjapan, he went out the easy way. He could have died at the hands of his people in a gruesome way like some dictators that got what they worked for. As for shining example of humanity? There are going on 7billion people in this world and a good 99% won't be mourning the passing of someone that did evil to them. As a human being I'm glad to see someone that did no good to others and never changed their stripes to the very end meet their end. They'll no longer be able to do anything to anyone else anymore.

Whoaat? Nothing has been said here in US.

Good riddance. I wonder how the elite will control the son to stay in power.

It doesn't change the fact that N Korea is still a dangerous country. The son Kim Jong-Un will not be able to lead the country. There will be a revolt from within.

Good riddance!

Alas, there is no reason to think his son will be any better.

all the same celebrating the loss of life isn't a shining example of humanity

Rubbish.

He was the antithesis of humanity and his name shouldnt ever be associated with such a word. The world is a better place today and may North Korea be liberated from its cruel and oppressive regime.

Wow smith, you take this opportunity to bash the USA and tell us that we shouldn't be rejoicing the death of the North Korean dictator who has brought nothing but pain and suffering to the North Korean people.

At least they have an excuse now for why North Korea will not achieve the status of Strong and Prosperous country in 2012 as was promised.

Foxie:

" I wonder if his son will be accepted as the New Leader by the population and I hope that he will change things there. "

LOL, do you think the population has a say in this? However, if the elites that run the dictatorship are divived about the succession, the regime could be in trouble. Lets hope.

Great Leader of his own era, R.I.P.

Are you serious? I know most JT leaders are leaning to the left but this is extreme!

How considerate of the Norks to give us an early Christmas present.

He won't be missed by anyone in the entire world - that is for sure and certain. He will be remembered as a tyrant who had a hatred of the Korean people, locking away, torturing and executing large numbers of them. Awful, awful man - just like his father - and I suspect his son will be a clone.

Good or bad thing for Japan? Scary stuff, have to watch this country closely.

I am happy for the people, but they do not have the will nor the power to fight out of their poverty.

The son will screw up I believe. So many of those older military dudes are scheming this very moment.

Why do I get the feeling that Russia and China are already planning who to put in his place, so they can secretly continue to control the country.

I truly hope the people of NK have a democratic liberation coming their way (they deserve it)

"He could have died at the hands of his people in a gruesome way ..."

Maybe that fate is reserved for his son, who could become the not so dear leader.

perfect time for a revolution

I agree with Smitty. Rejoicing over a death is pretty low.

@HonestDictator

He could have died at the hands of his people in a gruesome way like some dictators

Maybe if he had it would have been better. As it is, his feeble-minded son will take over and things will continue as before, with perhaps the military having an even bigger say in things than before. The ordinary people of North Korea will see no improvement in their lives and will probably see set-backs, as the state expects them to endure even greater austerity to pay for the funeral of the Leader.

So, he's dead. It's neither good news nor bad news, just news.

Well one evil out and next in line >>>>>junior evil in training...

This news from the N. Korean News Agency, so my guess is he's not really dead...yet. He's planning to make a miraculous recovery in a few days proving that he is indeed a god.

Agree with smith on the last part.

!!

Oh 'Dear'.

Everyone in my office is smiling.

I hope his death will bring some serious political change in this country.

It is a good thing that has happened today either way it goes, but many are hoping the two koreas now have a real hope of becoming one and we could well see some kind of power struggle from within the nutty north. Lets hope that good prevails and no harm is done to any of the norths neighbours during this time of realignment that will take place.

I think China and russia would rather help the north become proserous with a real econmoy rather keep it isolated and chained up like the rabid dog it has been. Lets also hope that china and russia can exert some influence on the norths leader/leaders to reform and mature into a real member of the world community.

Good riddance to bad rubbish Kim I hope you rot in the frozen ground of the north you DOG.

Let's see who (world leaders) will attend his funeral.

20 something son in charge of nuclear arsenal. Scary. Or military use him like a puppet. Scary too. Interesting to see the power struggle begin

You know next year is the 100th anniversary of Kim-il Sung's birthday. It will be a time for which the North Koreans (as a state) to project themselves as a modern country. Now is the time for revolt. They can't kill and imprison everyone.

He's dead. He killed many many people. Reason to celebrate? Hell yeah!! Sorry smithinjapan...but to give this guy even an ounce of humane thinking is insulting to those he tortured, starved, abused and killed. Some say his son will be worse...let's hope he has the smarts to bring prosperity to his nation instead of continued paranoia and propaganda.

I pity the loss of Kim the great, his loss was definately heartbreaking! He was a always a winner of 'blackmailing', he has 'got away' again and again after irking those fools in white house and pentagon, from the nuclear blasts until the Cheonan incident and shelling an out bound island! Kim has nothing to pay but gainning! Good job!

Hopefully, this is an opportunity to start a new and peaceful relationship with N. Korea.

Today is primarily a day of hoping for the emancipation of North Korea's innocent people. Who knows? Maybe Swiss educated Jong Un can do the business and lead NK forward. Even their army heads will be living better lives if they embrace the international community over isolation. They'll all have iPhones, Kindle, Samsung electronics, and better food and housing.

I dont know very much about Kim Jong Il so I found this article a really interesting read. The only thing it didnt seem to address is the most important question of all - who will now take over?

Officially I guess it is his oldest son? But he doesnt sound the "right type" if he is sneaking into Japan to visit Disneyland!

My guess is that the military bigwigs are either going to pop him in as a puppet they can control, or fight it out between them for who will be top dog. Or didnt he arrange to hand over power to one of his other sons before he died? The one that went to a Swiss boarding school, wasnt it?

Whatever happens it is going to be pretty unstable in this region for a while.

I dont celebrate his death but I am not especially thrilled about his life either. May God forgive him is probably the best I can manage.

I always wonder how many hot chicks they have over there? And when, if ever, they might become available?

Right now people may think this is the greatest gift of the new year, but wait until the box is opened. Will it be better or worse?

Ozawa - kan - Noda - Hatoyama - they should to be with broken heart now,snif,snif, ohhh poor man.

If I could choose something to have resurrected, it would be the sunshine policy.

R.I.P. I have never seen anything special about this man except he was demonized by the west.

Chosun Ulbo reports, "He died of a heart attack caused by stress and overwork while on a train on his way to a field inspection." Over eating and starving his people is the truth.

I didn't expect to hear this news. Thought he'd outlive me! Am waiting to see who takes centre stage next!

i'm not sure about cheering his death like others have, but the world does "feel" a little less evil today. and that's definitely a good thing.

Good Riddance, I hope the NK people can now stand up and say they have had enough and make good on his death. RIP no way he should endure such tortures as his people had to under his oppression the last 18 years. Karma is a bitch.

I hope that sucker KIm Jon Ill junior is better than this guy!

I take that comment back! That KIM JUNG IL junior better change the way! I hate N.Korea!

Can't say I am cheering his Death, death is not something to cheer at regardless of whose it is.

On same token I won't miss him either and hope that the next leader will have the guts and reunite the Koreas and heal a lot of open wounds and families.

If the transition of power plays out like last time the new "Cherished Leader" or "Adored Leader" or whatever he christens himself will have to get the military agree to his coronation. Some reports have it that Un was in charge of the shelling of the South Korean island a few months back at the behest of his father in order to show the military leaders that he had the gust to stand up to the West and Japan. We shall have to wait and see.

This is huge news.

But, Oh My God, some14some and The Munya Times..."RIP" for Kim Jong il? Seriously what is wrong with people on JapanToday and the overuse of "RIP"? I honestly want to know? Who are you people? Not even my deranged grandfather uses the term RIP. The only place you ever see RIP, other than this site, is on tombstones in cartoons. But here, every time anyone ranging from Kim Jong Il to an anonymous two year old dies and the kneejerk RIPs flow freely. Why don't some of you learn how to express yourselves and your thoughts in your own words rather than jumping to an outdated and hackneyed phrase.

his son is too young, the generals may have other plans

I guess I needed the CAPSLOCK on the article though, because I wouldn't know it was important versus other news

Yes death is not for cheer but some Nations do. As in Sadam H, Ghadaffi and Osama Bin Laden.... case.

I'm glad Telegraph posted a better pic of his ..

HonestDictator: "@smithinjapan, he went out the easy way. He could have died at the hands of his people in a gruesome way like some dictators that got what they worked for. As for shining example of humanity?"

I never said the guy was a shining example of humanity. On the contrary he said he was bad. I agree the world is better off without him, and I hope the future NK leader can set NK on the correct path -- now is a critical moment. What I DID say was that I don't agree with 'celebrating' ANYONE'S death, be it Kim, some other dictator, or a neighbour you don't like. Shouting 'YAHOO!' or saying it's a nice Christmas present or what have you is not a very good example of humanity either, is it? True, life can seem very unfair when a man like Kim gets the 'easy way out' when so many have suffered under his rule, but I don't think we should regret not killing him, either.

OssanAmerica: "Wow smith, you take this opportunity to bash the USA..."

I didn't 'bash the USA' (although it's telling you always seem to think that way), I took a playful jab at the CIA who said... how many times was it?... that Kim was already dead, along with Castro, etc. Relax.

"...and tell us that we shouldn't be rejoicing the death of the North Korean dictator who has brought nothing but pain and suffering to the North Korean people."

Don't misquote what I said -- I said no one should celebrate the death of anyone else; same as I said when Bin Laden was murdered, and same as I said in regards to people in certain predominantly Muslim nations dancing in the streets on 9/11. Rejoicing in another's death doesn't really raise the bar of humanity at all, regardless of how evil the person was or may have been.

some14someDEC. 19, 2011 - 12:13PM JST Great Leader of his own era, R.I.P.

wtf for serious are you real "Great Leader" ? The guy was a total nut job. More like R.I.H ( Rest in HELL ) for the millions of people, mostly his own people that have suffered for so many decades under his families rule. People starve and die over there while his family lives the most lavish of lifestyles.

Great Leader. King of Bhutan, that's one Great Leader.

Matthew Simon: "Karma is a bitch."

How is this Karma? Everyone dies, regardless of whether we choose to live in a manner that helps others or oppresses them. Karma would be him coming back as a poor NKorean kid starving and living in cruelty under a dictator.

Great Leader of his own era, R.I.P.

Are you serious? I know most JT leaders are leaning to the left but this is extreme!

yes, i am serious because somebody (Kim Jong-il) has died and his death has rattled asian stock markets as well. He was a great politician with an intelligent humor that we do'nt find in leaders of this region. He enjoyed full support of US administration as well. I mourn his death because my image of Kim does not match with Media image/hype. about Kim.

GREAT NEWS!!! 2011 really is the year of change!!! WOW!!!

Nothing to really celebrate as North Korea remains, in essence, a military dictatorship who will never peacefully relinquish power. Also, there's a chance they'll try some kind of international provocation to convince their downtrodden populace of the necessity of having such a huge military force and a huge military budget to keep it going.

Since most N.Korean were duped to believe he was born in such sacred way, now I hope they might think the dear leader will pay all his crimes in hell. I hope the rest of the regime understand it is a march to nowhere. Korea(s) should unite and learn how to live in peace without whining or being too aggressive against the neighbors, especially Japan. Yet need to be seen, what the Chinese will do to exploit this new found situation.

There are 12 days left in this year and I hope this is it, as far as major surprises go.

He was a dolt and a moron and it is good that he is dead and gone. Stalinism sucks.

If there is a hell, Kim Yong Il will be in it, so from my side it is RIH and not RIP.

Mr.Kim has just died, but I can not believe it! Death is inevitable so even somebody as rich and powerful as Mr.Kim dies, kind of helps us reflect, how we should live our lives on our short journeys here on this planet, may he rest in peace and may his many, many victims rest in peace and may the 2 Koreas one day all enjoy peace too.

GREAT NEWS!!!! YES!!!!

Now the South must annex N.Korea!!!!! Please anex it!

CrazyJoe wrote

Let's see who (world leaders) will attend his funeral.

'They are completely isolated,'' said U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill. ''If it's isolation they want, it's going to be isolation they get.''

The Karma here should be no leaders should attend his funeral.

On the same day that Vaclav Havel passed away. Interesting coincidence, indeed!

excellent news

North Korea, long hampered by sanctions and unable to feed its own people, is desperate for aid. Flooding in the 1990s that destroyed the largely mountainous country’s arable land left millions hungry.

I could care less about the passing of Dear Leader Kim. I'm more concerned about the millions of ordinary North Koreans who are suffering through another winter without enough food.

Saddam Hussein, M. Qaddafi, Bin Laden, Kim Jung Ill... and there are many more to come for the sooner is better for humanity. Just hoping Obama does not claim any credit for this one.

Kim gone, Santa is really checking his list twice!

Dear Santa , Fidel Castro next!

Saddam Hussein, M. Qaddafi, Bin Laden, Kim Jung Ill... and there are many more to come for the sooner is better for humanity. Just hoping Obama does not claim any credit for this one.

There will be plenty to replace them, always has been, always will be.

The Wicked WItch of the North is dead.....let's rejoice! I only hope the future leader is weak and this ridiculous dictatorship can be brushed aside and forgotten as a sad chapter in the history of Korea.

Saddam Hussein, M. Qaddafi, Bin Laden, Kim Jung Ill... and there are many more to come for the sooner is better for humanity.

Just on a side note throw in Shoko Asahara, the Japanese Bin Laden. Hang him this year too.

Anyways, funerals suck. Someone's gonna get screwed when the will's out.

Kim Jong Il was a bad apple. This guy was a nut case, destroyed his country and their population and lived high on the hog while his countrymen suffered. My fear is that the folks in the North will take a run at South Korea to get away and turn a very efficient and profitable South Korea into a welfare state much like the Mexicans have done to the USA.

My other fear is that since the USA needs another war to keep it's warfare based economy going, instead of Iran, they will now focus their efforts on North Korea which may be an easier target than Iran depending on what happens in the next few weeks.

If war breaks out between the USA and North Korea where am I going to get parts for my LG clothes dryer that I just bought. Maybe I should have bought a Maytag instead.

In any case, I am glad to hear that he died as the market for fine French cognac just got easier to purchase not to mention Cuban cigars and the harem of vestile virgins he kept.

Now the South must annex N.Korea!!!!!

Not sure South Korea wants to bankrupt itself, ruin its international reputation or start a war with China.

There seems to be some confusion for the cause of death-heart attack or stroke. Overeating and high cholesterol is the cause. Dead is dead. Eat healthy!

Human dignity and freedom are much more valuable than just "foods". S. Korea enjoys these values and have plenty food to donate for starving N.Korea, isn't it? Sometime after the rain, there might be a blue sky. Foods are much needed, but it has been said that teaching peoples how to fish is much better than feeding them with fish all the time. Here, is an opportunity for N.Koreans to learn how to fish and even secure the future generation. The world has been trying to feed starving N. Korea for years and they are still starving. Obviously, there is something more crucial than food. Please enjoy your meals and freedom as well. Cheers.

Kim Jong Il unveiled his third son, the twenty-something Kim Jong Un

Un

Singular sensation

Every little bomb you make...

Let's remember Vaclav Havel as a real hero of the 20th century. Is there a Havel in NK? Time will tell, but it is the season of hope.

Now the South can merge with the North to form a new Korea to which Japan did not have a treaty of reparations with, and the new country can demand more from Japan without being held back by the shadow of 1965.

Human dignity and freedom are much more valuable than just "foods".

I wonder how many of the 900 million or so people around the world who go to bed every night with an empty belly would agree with you.

Saddam Hussein, M. Qaddafi, Bin Laden, Kim Jung Ill...

Breaking News: Saddam Hussein, M. Qaddafi, Bin Laden and Kim Jung Ill hatch plan to overthrow Satan...

N Korea considered Don King as stand-in replacement for Kim Jong Il...

North Koreans to commemorate Kim Jong Il's death with a hunger strike...

...it began about 50 years ago.

It's very strange for me to be so happy about someone's death. Even though many people died because of him. Do you have any pride?

a few years after the reunification of germany a team from south korea visited and did a study. the south korean team found out from their research that the reunification of east and west germany was almost crippling. so their conclusion that reunification with north korea would be unaffordable.

north korea is here to stay unless the west and china assist with money and manpower to bring the koreas together.

Kim's dead! Never mind that, Koda Kumi's 8 weeks pregnant. So, she was already pregnant when she announced her engagement.

R.I.P......rest in pieces.

Hmmm.....quite a few of expected knee jerk reactions...."he's dead, yahoo, evil man (that's what they told me on Fox)" but little anaylisis of what this means to east Asia. Very interesting if you go to somewhere like the NYT to see their more reasoned reaction.

Thing is, despite being made out as to be the Devil incarnate by GWB most world leaders saw Kim fro what he was - a dictorial leader of a country in dire straits. But not an idiot. GWB vowed NK would never have nuclear weapons and now they have them. But once he got those weapons he then used them for leverage to get fuel, food and economic aid for his country without conceding anything.

Bush demonised Kim as you would a rat under your house who could kill your newborn child if you did not keep it under control. NK has not been a threat since the Korean war unless you buy into the line he might - because he is a "madman" - fire nukes at Japan or SK. Truth is, and Kim knew this, if he fired off a nuke at 0600 one morning he and his country - or at least the capital - would be glowing green by midnight.

If starving the general populace is the reason to threaten an country then watch out Bangladesh and most of Africa, America and the Un have you in their sights.

Kim was, through a set of circumstances and events from 1950 to date able to live that fantasy life, which many of us have probably thought about, of having complete control of a nation. Apart from tyhe abilty to invade SK he was a threat to no-one. Yet he managed to rise to the ranks of a partner in GWB's farcical "axis of evil". He probably saw that as a badge of honour.

So a little man who played it big and in his last years made the US look a little silly (on reflection). NK is not a threat to the world and no matter who takes over - which in my view may well be the army - will threaten no-one.

Hopefully whoever takes over will not try the same lame tactics of threratening it's neighbours. Word to NK should be - attack anyone and don't take dinner out of the freezer - you won't get to eat it. NK are not a threat. Perhaps, and maybe a long shot, the new leaders may try to find a new way forward. Whatever, i do not expect me or my garndchildren to be speaking Korean any time soon. Or hailing the Dear Leader.

Heart failure? You need a heart before it can fail. No he died of human failure.

I see the cholesterol from all those "rich' foods finally got a hold of him.

Official number of 17 Japanese have been abducted. (Kim Jong Il admitted abducting 13 Japanese citizens). there may have been as many as 70 to 80. Around 500 S. Koreans and some European citizens have been abducted by North Korea. "R.I.P.??? NO! "Give them all back!" "かえせ!!!"

bgood41: "Saddam Hussein, M. Qaddafi, Bin Laden, Kim Jung Ill... and there are many more to come for the sooner is better for humanity."

While it is pretty undeniable the three people you have chosen to mention were awful people, lest we forget 'evil' is relative, as is 'good'. Some people would dance on the streets if GWB died (or Obama for that matter), which just goes to show that in NO case should you celebrate a person's death.

Blair: "there may have been as many as 70 to 80."

There are probably more that have been abducted than NK has copped to, to be sure, but don't forget some people on the NK abductee list have turned up in Japan and simply tried to run away from their obligations. It's a convenient excuse in a number of cases, and there is ZERO proof that so many have been kidnapped.

Anyway, people, thumbs down and getting all emotional aside, I think we all agree that now is a critical point for NK and the world around it. ExportExpert talked about hope of reconciliation with the South and possible reunification, but I don't see it any more now than under the now departed Kim, the reason being all the scheming old military generals Nicky mentioned -- THEY are the ones with the real control, and would never allow what they've been preparing for their whole lives to go to waste. I HOPE and pray the young Kim who takes over will lead NK on the right path, but even if he does it's going to take time.

"Apart from tyhe (sic) abilty to invade SK he was a threat to no-one"

This is like saying that "apart from his child porn collection, he was not a pedophile." Come on, Bush's obsessive demonization of North Korea and his torpedoing of Kim Dae Jung's Sunshine Policy were not good things, but it's just as wrong to understate the threat that the North Korean regime poses. It's a very black hole in an otherwise extraordinarily prosperous region.

"celebrating the loss of life isn't a shining example of humanity" Really? Kim Jong Il was a psychopathic dictator responsible directly and indirectly for the deaths of over 1 million people! Not only do I celebrate his death, I'd love to travel to North Korea some day and urinate on his grave to pay my "dis-respect".

Ding Dong the Witch is DEAD! Let the world REJOICE!

Whatever awaits us humans on the other side is unknowable... this man's ultimate fate is not of concern, but one thing is certain, we'd all like to see a change of policy where North Korea is concerned!

Looks like those 3 who minused me have no pride at all, including self-pride.

The news is he was still alive. He could have die 5 years ago together with Bin Laden, Castro and who else, and that wouldn't have changed much for the world. The interim, if not the succession has been installed for a while.

that reunification with north korea would be unaffordable.

If that was for the dough, they'd ask the world to fund it, as they surely also went to study "how to" with Arafat. They agree on only one thing : There is not one person that wants reunification in South-Korea, most don't dare admitting it publicly but they don't want a reunification in their lifetime (they know what the North is like and they mostly see their taxes going there), 10 guys want to annex the North and they live an Alzheimer patient residency. There is not one person that wants reunification in North-Korea, most want to hear nothing about it (they have no idea what the South is like and they are wondering what to eat next Winter) , 5 guys want to annex the South and they are all in the government and at the head of the army. Yesterday they were 6, it seems. Is it a progress ? The future will tell.

As Patrick noted, my biggest concern would be that his people are now able to eat. I don't care about this nutcase, but the country as a whole needs to heal. He was a crook, a thief, a liar, a rotten excuse for a human...but I don't cheer his death.

The "tyrant" is dead, long live the next tyrant. Yeah, let's have a revolution, shall we? They had one in Egypt, an looky here: people are still dying there even today! Nice job.

Some declaring that Xmas has come early? No, that is not the Xmas spirit! I wonder how many of them have audacity to call themselves Christian?

To quote Morrisey, I'm not happy and I'm not sad. I am not quite sure why he would be hated so so much. Its not like he launched a war in Iraq or Afghanistan, or invaded Tibet. And its rather hypocritical to, on hand, declare that no one man could effectively run a country's economy, then, on the other, hate on Kim for failing. If Kim is responsible for some evil deeds of intentional malice, I don't know what they are. All I really know is that he ate and lived in grandeur while his people starved. Is that as bad as starting a war? Two?

But more than I am concerned by barbaric comments stated with no solid basis to back them up, I am concerned about the power vacuum and how it will be filled. It took Kim Jong Ill three years to actually consolidate power. Will his son be able to do that? Will some war hungry general usurp power instead?

Jong Ill kept North Korea hungry but politically stable for 17 years. Some of you "dancing in the streets" at his death may find yourself missing him.

Well said TinMadDog. All anybody should be worried about is the power vacuum.

Lets just hope that this heralds a new era for North Korea. It will take a man (for I am presuming his son will be the new Dear Leader) with great courage and conviction, as well as a great deal of political nous, to walk his country towards the 21st Century. He will have to defy the ideologies of his father and grandfather in the process - a very difficult thing to do, assuming that he even has the inclination to do so, as well as battle the power brokers in the NK Military regime. It will also be very interesting to see how countries like China, the US, South Korea and Japan conduct themselves over the next little while. Here's hoping for better days.

PokeDec. 19, 2011 - 01:57PM JST

This is huge news.

No, it is not, just a leader of a country died the same way as many others did.

But, Oh My God, some14some and The Munya Times..."RIP" for Kim Jong il? Seriously what is wrong with people on JapanToday and the overuse of "RIP"? I honestly want to know?

Honestly? Well, history is history and death is death. This thread is about a man is dead, a life was lost and what else comment do you expect about it? To rejoice about death, to slur and abuse a dead man? His life is over and a life that is lost and death can never be a good news and will never solve anything. He has gone and the hard situation and the problems remained. Death is no solution for nothing.

BTW. he has always been demonized I don't think he was the worst man in the world, though. There were and are many worse ones. History has produced many of his kind or even worse and will continue to produce more of them, some as kings, some as dictators, some as presidents and some as powerful business men. What's the big deal about it? It:s been like this for thousands of years.

Arthur: "Looks like those 3 who minused me have no pride at all, including self-pride."

Don't worry about it, Arthur... on a 'normal' thread people push the thumbs down button all the time. Here there are over-emotional knee-jerk reaction people who will thumbs down you if you aren't already peeing on the man's grave. If you stop to think about what a shame it is that the man wasted his life and oppressed so many others in the process people will hate you for not automatically being happy the guy is dead without questioning things.

Tamarama: "Lets just hope that this heralds a new era for North Korea."

Agreed, and I can't imagine anyone hoping for anything else -- save the generals that will probably keep said new era (at least a GOOD new era) from happening. I'm guessing we'll find out in the next few weeks, if not days.

TinMadDog: "No, that is not the Xmas spirit! I wonder how many of them have audacity to call themselves Christian?"

EXACTLY! I've been saying things along these lines for hours now; some on here will decry certain religions or actions by extremists as vulgar, inhumane, terrorist, etc., but when 'the enemy' dies they jump up and down and pull out the firecrackers same as said enemy does when something terrible happens in 'the West'. Aside from one commenter with a massive amount of thumbs down, take a look at the other comments with more than ten or so -- they are all saying death should not be celebrated, and people simply can't hack it. I mean, CLEO getting near 20 thumbs down?? You KNOW something's wrong when.

As for the power vacuum comments, well said. That's another thing I and others have been touching on -- the generals are a scary lot, and even with the young Kim taking power (likely) it's hard to predict who will really be in control and what they'll do. Scary even. Japan has held an emergency meeting as a result of Kim's death, for the same concerns we posted, and I'm curious what the meeting yielded.

DentShop: "He was the antithesis of humanity and his name shouldnt ever be associated with such a word."

I never associated him with such a word -- I said those who literally celebrate the death of another human being are not shining beacons of humanity. In fact, such celebration is more or less the same type of evil nature that Kim spent a good part of his life embracing. You can't call one person evil for celebrating death and another good for doing so -- it's all the same nature when it comes down to it. Is it good the man's gone? I don't think anyone would disagree. Should you be out in the street dancing? no.

Arthur:

"Looks like those 3 who minused me have no pride at all, including self-pride."

No they minused you because your post doesn't make sense. Please tell me what the difference between pride and self-pride is. And why being glad that someone is dead indicates a lack of pride.

TinMadDog:

"No, that is not the Xmas spirit! I wonder how many of them have audacity to call themselves Christian?"

I would guess not many at all. I have seen many posters on this thread condemning other posters for being happy about his death. Well the number of of advocates of capital punishment should tell you that this is a normal human reaction. It's called Schadenfreude.

You can only do 69 in reality once.

May this genius of a man rest in peace and think about all the good he did for his people.

May his communist non-god bless him for eternity and that he rest for a long time in the high heals he bravely wore.

Good luck to his chubby son, who seems to have a thing for ice cream.

So now, how will the abduction situation move forward?

A dark night ends. Good luck NK people.

I see KimJong Il 's leftist/nihilist-tough-guy-wannabe apologists are out in full force. Laugh at the desperation in the need to try and bring Bush into this; as if Bush calling Kim Jong Il evil - when the latter was in his late 50s - became by some absurd retrofitting the explanation for all the bizarro world antics The Supreme Fruitcake first got up to decades ago as hereditary leader of Stalinist North Korea.*

You can almost hear em "Well, um, if North Korea under Kimmie and his father DID actually kidnap Japanese through the 70s and 80s in addition to starving and slaughtering millions of their own citizens it's,uh, Bush's fault!"

btw - The term 'Axis of Evil' was coined by Dubya's Canadian speechwriter, David Frum.

I'll say it - - I am glad Kimmie is dead. (Not as glad as I was when Osama bin Laden got shot in the face though.)

Shame on China for propping up the Norks.

just hope in time there more chance getting the north and south together at last.

chance for unification and democracy?

Way too many political weird changes for 2012. Another "president" for North Korea, another one for the US, same goes for the French, then the macho Putin back into his presidential job in Russia, ... added to this the muslims and their charia taking over the whole arabic world, plus the climate change, plus the financial crisis and the possible explosion of the euro zone. The whole thing is a perfect receipe for mass instabilty leading to more conflicts in my opinion.

Ranger_Miffy2:

" A dark night ends. Good luck NK people. "

No, it does not. Or do you have any reason to believe that the Kim regime is finished?

Christopher Hitchens visited this sad country in the late nineties and his words are in my opinion the most apt description of what life is really like in North Korea.

Nobody knows how many North Koreans have died or are dying in the famine—some estimates by foreign-aid groups run as high as three million in the period from 1995 to 1998 alone—but the rotund, jowly face of Kim Il Sung still beams down contentedly from every wall, and the 58-year-old son looks as chubby as ever, even as his slenderized subjects are mustered to applaud him. Kim Jong Il, incidentally, has been made head of the party and of the army, but the office of the presidency is still “eternally” held by his adored and departed dad, who died on July 8, 1994, at 82. (The Kim is dead. Long live the Kim.) This makes North Korea the only state in the world with a dead president. What would be the right term for this? A necrocracy? A thanatocracy? A mortocracy? A mausolocracy? Anyway, grimly appropriate for a morbid system so many of whose children have died with grass in their mouths.

I could only hope that Kim Jong II, pathetic Dictator that he was would have had grass stuffed in his mouth also while he breathed his last.

unreconstructed: "I see KimJong Il 's leftist/nihilist-tough-guy-wannabe apologists are out in full force."

I see you're back to the 5 or 6 word adjectives of the longest lasting of your former handles, and STILL not talking about the article at hand but simply dragging into the thread the same old, tired baggage you do every time.

"You can almost hear em "Well, um, if North Korea under Kimmie and his father DID actually kidnap Japanese through the 70s and 80s in addition to starving and slaughtering millions of their own citizens it's,uh, Bush's fault!""

Haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely close to that except you, actually. I'm just surprised you're not ranting about Obama.

"btw - The term 'Axis of Evil' was coined by Dubya's Canadian speechwriter, David Frum."

Again, WHOM is it that's bringing up 'Dubya'? :)

"Shame on China for propping up the Norks."

China has been keeping North Korea at bay, as a matter of fact, save when they supported them in the Korean War and during the Cold War. They've asked the North on several occasions to come back to the negotiating table on the nuke topic and asked them to tone down they rhetoric when sabre-rattling. They also chided NK when they did their recent nuke test.

"I'll say it - - I am glad Kimmie is dead. (Not as glad as I was when Osama bin Laden got shot in the face though.)"

Yes, well that comes as no surprise. And yet you probably think it's a grievous crime when Palestinians or some in other Muslim nations dance around when an American is killed, because you cannot see your hypocrisy.

he deserved dying in disgrace, instead of a heart attack (if that is true). he is one of the great psycho-terrorists of our times, making life the most miserable thing for so many people, knowing that if you protest you lose it all. china and russia will do everything they can to keep north korea as the super enemy of capitalism, without any regard for the people there, because it suits their purpose that the USA, Japan, south korea live with the threat of someone that hates them. pity for his death? certainly not! there is always hope that this might bring freedom to the poor people up there.

Is it too late for Kimmie's demise to make top ten stories of the year? Osama bin Laden caught unawares in his compound , using one of his wives as a human shield but still getting blasted in the face remains top story I am sure but this is big for Asia.

Couldn't make it until 70, when we'd have the leadership to deal with this situation?

unreconstructed: "I see KimJong Il 's leftist/nihilist-tough-guy-wannabe apologists are out in full force."

I see you're back to the 5 or 6 word adjectives.

"You can almost hear em "Well, um, if North Korea under Kimmie and his father DID actually kidnap Japanese through the 70s and 80s in addition to starving and slaughtering millions of their own citizens it's,uh, Bush's fault!""

Haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely close to that except you, actually.

"btw - The term 'Axis of Evil' was coined by Dubya's Canadian speechwriter, David Frum."

Again, WHOM is it that's bringing up 'Dubya'? :)

"Shame on China for propping up the Norks."

China has been keeping North Korea at bay, as a matter of fact, save when they supported them in the Korean War and during the Cold War. They've asked the North on several occasions to come back to the negotiating table on the nuke topic and asked them to tone down they rhetoric when sabre-rattling. They also chided NK when they did their recent nuke test.

"I'll say it - - I am glad Kimmie is dead. (Not as glad as I was when Osama bin Laden got shot in the face though.)"

Yes, well that comes as no surprise. And yet you probably think it's a grievous crime when Palestinians or some in other Muslim nations dance around when an American is killed, because you cannot see your hypocrisy.

So it seems Kim Jong ill really was ill

@sailwind I rarely agree with you, but very well said by Mr. Hitchens via your post. Couldn't agree more.

Article makes no mention of how Kimmie's first outing on the links produced a miraculous 11 hole - in - one shots, for total of 34 under. Were we lied to ?

If Ghandi were alive and said the same thing as Smith, he would be lauded as a great humanitarian.

I understand your sentiment Smith.

And actually, if you think about it, North Korea being able to tell it's people that people of other countries are rejoicing and celebrating the death of their leader probably isn't going to help anything.

So should South Koreans rejoice or be fearful about this? Being a divided country for over half a century they probably won't miss their Uncle Kim. But like someone said it's the ensuing power vacuum and new leadership that should cause them concern. With over a million NK soldiers amassed North of the 38th parallel anything can happen when the status quo changes. Koreans can be reunited sooner than they think--for better or for worse.

Good Riddance to this P*S who was reputed to have had a taste for cigars, cognac and gourmet cuisine while his people starved. He lived in palaces while 200,000 of his people were put in gulags. He had a collection of over 20,000 movies while his subjects had their radios preset to government stations and if they were caught modifying the radios they could either be imprisoned or executed. If there is justice in this world he will join his soul-mates Pol Pot , Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, Vladamir Lenin , & Adolf Hitler in hell.

We will now have to get used to Kim Yong Un, the newest Dear Leader.

He looks even more thuggish than his dad, if that is possible.

I hope the succession does not go well.

Revolution Begins.

If Ghandi were alive and said the same thing as Smith, he would be lauded as a great humanitarian.

Ghandi was a humanitarian. You insult the man's memory with comparisons to posters here, smith in particular.

@TinMadDog

I am not quite sure why he would be hated so so much. If Kim is responsible for some evil deeds of intentional malice, I don't know what they are.

Just in case you didn't know...

Official number of 17 Japanese have been abducted. (Kim Jong Il admitted abducting 13 Japanese citizens). Around 500 S. Koreans and some European citizens have been abducted by North Korea.

On a cold night in 1977 in Niigata, Japan, Sakie Yokota looked at the clock on her wall and noticed that it was getting late. Her eldest child, 13-year-old Megumi, hadn't yet returned home. Megumi usually walked straight home from school. Sakie panicked and ran to the school, but no one knew where her daughter was. For the entire night, Megumi's parents and her two younger brothers frantically searched the beach near their home. The police got involved and searched for weeks, but it led to nothing. A year went by with no word. Five, 10, 15 years passed. Finally, 20 years after Megumi's disappearance, a journalist knocked on the Yokotas' door and revealed something that shocked the family and the rest of Japan: Megumi had been abducted to North Korea. North Korean leader Kim Jong Il would later admit that Megumi and 12 other Japanese citizens had been kidnapped from the shores of Japan by North Korean spies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K3sQetYSGM

Kaoru Hasuike, a law student, was abducted in 1978 along with his girlfriend Yukiko Okudo, then 22, while they were on a date. They revealed how they were snatched from the coast of Kashiwazaki in Niigata Prefecture. Kaoru Hasuike said, "'A man asked me for a light, and there were three other people with him.They beat me up and I was put in a sack. I was taken to a rubber dinghy and transferred to a big ship offshore. Then I was taken to Chongjin."' Yukiko Hasuike said "'My eyes and mouth were sealed with adhesive tape but there was a little space, so I could see that I was going far away from Kashiwazaki."' Yukiko Hasuike added that she was once living with Rumiko Masumoto, who had also been abducted to the North in 1978. North Korea admitted last September it had abducted Masumoto, who has now reportedly died.

Teruaki Masumoto, Rumiko Masumoto's brother commented, "How will the death of Kim Jong Il affect the abductees? We certainly can't be optimistic. Now is a crucial period for bringing the abductees back." Toru Hasuike, Kaoru Hasuike's brother commented, "Kim Jong Il, the person who was in effect the key plotter of the abductions, has died, and it's a shame that we can no longer pursue him over responsibility for the abductions." Shigeru Yokota said, "The administration may collapse and there may be confusion, but I want to see negotiations resume as soon as possible." (Mainichi Shimbun)

"I am not quite sure why he would be hated so so much. If Kim is responsible for some evil deeds of intentional malice, I don't know what they are."

It's perfectly understandable. If you don't know what his deeds of malice are you either don't read anything, listen to the news, or perhaps are in the running for next North Korean TV News Announcer...?

I agree with Smith's sentiment still. I think a lot of people have missed his point.

btw, most of you probably are not aware of half the suffering that goes on in prisons and camps in that country.

The scenes of North Koreans crying at the news of the dictator's death was amazing. They all seem genuinely broken-up. Even the N Korean lady newscaster who always announces the news with vigor was speaking in a shaky voice. I wonder what the punishment would be to act indifferently, or, God forbid, seem happy at this news.

Revolution Begins.

Let's all hope so. I hereby christen it "The Kimchi Revolution."

I wouldn't say people are celebrating so much as many people around the world are sighing in relief that another bad person is gone from the world. As is always the problem though, "When one evil is destroyed it only leaves a space for a new evil to take its place...". Would be nice if that space was filled with something good instead though. I'm sure China might try to encourage some new thinking in NK but China really hasn't been all that great with their own track record even though they're a lot more modernized than the old "one dear leader" communism of its own past.

The scenes of North Koreans crying at the news of the dictator's death was amazing. They all seem genuinely broken-up.

If only they knew.

All my family and I are very delighted at this news today! I will be drinking the favorite Nihonshu 古酒 in celebration tonight! All Japanese I know are happy this evil, terrorist korean has died. He hated Japanese and wanted to destroy us with nuclar weapons. Now, is the chance for his son - the new leader, to finally listen to our demands to return the kidnapped Japanese citizens, or else face the penalties when LDP returns to power. I am so angry and ashamed terrible DPJ goverment offered sympathy and condolense to the North Koreans.

Being that no hardline communist regime has ever made it very far into a third generation of leadership, I believe that hopes can be realized for a reunification of the Korean peninsula -- though not the way the Kims would have envisioned -- in the not-too-distant future.

That country might have a chance with democracy, hopefully his brother Kim Jong Nam, 38 will turn his brother and ask for the U.N. or USA for help.

This new 20 year old is surrounded by old farts who don't want to change.

It's all about the money now and brain washing is still in effect.

yasukuni, I agree. I'm not against smithinjapan, either. I don't feel like celebrating at all, but also not feel like saying R.I.P., either because of those abduction, taepodon...etc. I'm more concerned what's gonna happen.

what a wonderful christmas gift ... cheers korea cheers .....

Dead? I didn't know he was Il.

Just in case you didn't know...

Blair, did you think I was trying to say that Kim was a swell guy? I wasn't. My point was that there is all this hate against him, but no one seems to be quite sure why they hated him so much.

Thank you for all those details about abductions. Did you notice the dates? All before 82. Kim did not really have any power before then, and it was not until 92 that his father handed over the reigns. So, thanks for playing! You proved my point quite nicely.

Incidently, it was under this Kim that abductees were returned. Also, I was talking about stuff like wars and you brought up abductions for comparison? Sure, would have been evil if you could properly blame Kim Jong Ill for them. But that is so evil, you must want to strangle GWB with your bare hands!

If you don't know what his deeds of malice are you either don't read anything, listen to the news, or perhaps are in the running for next North Korean TV News Announcer...?

Thank you too yasukuni! I am sure you know a lot of details, but just aren't telling! I am so...not convinced!

Kim Jong "I-told-you-I-was-Ill", appointed Kim Jong Un to be his replacement. It will be interesting to see how long the military will allow him to remain in power.

yasukuni: "btw, most of you probably are not aware of half the suffering that goes on in prisons and camps in that country."

I'm sure it's not most, but ALL who do not understand even a quarter of the suffering people there are going through. All we can do is imagine based on hearsay. It must be truly horrible.

Blair: "I don't feel like celebrating at all, but also not feel like saying R.I.P.,"

I don't think many people if any (aside from some14some who did) have said RIP. I stopped short of doing so because I reserve that for those who are largely innocent. I'm glad you agree that 'celebrating' death is not a good thing.

Kentaro: "Now, is the chance for his son - the new leader, to finally listen to our demands..."

I think the word 'demands' sums up your 'argument' quite well. Japan has made quite a few demands throughout history, including during colonization of the Koreas, which actually led to the birth of North Korea itself (way to go!). Is 'demanding' another nation do something really all that different from North Korea demanding others do what North Korea wants? No.

Serrano: "The scenes of North Koreans crying at the news of the dictator's death was amazing. They all seem genuinely broken-up. Even the N Korean lady newscaster who always announces the news with vigor was speaking in a shaky voice. I wonder what the punishment would be to act indifferently, or, God forbid, seem happy at this news."

Ah, to be young! There are a LOT of NKoreans genuinely broken up -- and no doubt some who are not but who feign to be. The former have been brainwashed, the latter suppressed into silence (more than the former).

Why did Japan send condolences? He kidnapped Megumi San and did not return yet.

I fear this is a situation where as much as you hate the old boss, he might be a lot better than the new one. This could be North Korea's "out of the frying pan; into the fire" moment. I hope cooler heads prevail.

...and now the interesting part starts...

Yabits:

" Being that no hardline communist regime has ever made it very far into a third generation of leadership, I believe that hopes can be realized for a reunification of the Korean peninsula "

Yes. On the other hand, one can argue that the NK regime has moved past hardline communism and into the era of an absolute monarchy combined with theocracy... a kind of absolute god-kingdom like the Inkas had. And those lasted for quite a bit.

zichi:

" More than a million banged up in Gulags. I hope they'll now let them out? "

You want to bet on that? I take the opposite end.

I hope Kim Jong-un secures power before a senior military officer does. The best hope for the North Korean citizenry is in his son coming to power. If only for the fact that, by all accounts, his son just isn't crazy enough. He actually seems to be a bit oaf-ish, even dimwitted. Not that his father was ever in the running for a Nobel. I wrote about the younger Kim a couple of weeks ago, and from my perspective, he will run to the West very quickly otherwise he risks military overthrow.

Some more of my thoughts on Kim Jong-un: http://bit.ly/twvRNO

@TinMadDog

According to Asahi Shimbun and other media, Kim Jong-il directly ordered 朝鮮労働党対外情報調査部(WPK intelligence investigation) to carry out abductions.

北朝鮮による日本人拉致事件を計画・実行した朝鮮労働党対外情報調査部（現３５号室）が、金正日・朝鮮労働党書記（現在は総書記）から直接指揮を受ける形で活動していたことが、日本政府の関係当局の調べで明らかになった。 http://www.asahi.com/special/08001/TKY200911010336.html

In an interview with Japanese police, Yasushi Chimura and Kaoru Hasuike, two of the abductees allowed to return to Japan in 2002, identified two of their abductors as Sin Gwang-su (known also as Sin Kwang-su) and a man known as "Pak". The National Police Agency has requested the arrests of Sin Gwang-su and Choi Sung Chol for the abductions of Japanese nationals. Sin reportedly told police in South Korea that he had been personally ordered by Kim Jong-il to carry out abductions. Kim Jong-il: Vice-Chairman, WPK Central Committee (1972-80)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens#cite_note-yomiuri1-11

" Being that no hardline communist regime has ever made it very far into a third generation of leadership, I believe that hopes can be realized for a reunification of the Korean peninsula "

That is true, but then again, no Communist regime in Asia has ever fallen. I truly hope this to be the start of the first and the eventual re-unification.

Yes. On the other hand, one can argue that the NK regime has moved past hardline communism and into the era of an absolute monarchy combined with theocracy... a kind of absolute god-kingdom like the Inkas had. And those lasted for quite a bit.

If we look at the Incas, we'd find an "empire" that lasted all of 130 years -- and caved very quickly when confronted with less than 200 people from the "modern" world.

I guess this is a wonderful Christmas after all :)

SmithinJapan: Rejoicing in another's death doesn't really raise the bar of humanity at all, regardless of how evil the person was or may have been.

This isn't about KJI, this is about you seeing an opportunity to lecture others. Give it a rest. The guy was a menace to the world and we're better off without him in it. Find another battle to fight.

smithinjapanDec. 19, 2011 - 02:01PM JST OssanAmerica: "Wow smith, you take this opportunity to bash the USA..." I didn't 'bash the USA' (although it's telling you always seem to think that way), I took a playful jab at the CIA who >said... how many times was it?... that Kim was already dead, along with Castro, etc. Relax.

Ok. Next time you get onmjy case for bashing anything I'll remind you that I'm just taklng a "playful; jab".

"...and tell us that we shouldn't be rejoicing the death of the North Korean dictator who has brought nothing but pain and suffering to the North Korean people."

Don't misquote what I said -- I said no one should celebrate the death of anyone else;

Considereting the subject ad text of the article I doubt very much you were "NOT" making specific reference to Kim Jong Il.

Rest easy South Korea... oh and the rest of the world!

That is true, but then again, no Communist regime in Asia has ever fallen.

Well, there's Cambodia which overturned a communist regime and went back to monarchy. But I see your point.

I suspect that China's and Vietnam's far more market-oriented economic systems will continue to cause their political systems to evolve as well -- putting even more pressure on North Korea.

Why are people saying RIP to this loathesome, immoral dicator? Under his rule, up to 3 million Koreans died of starvation and hundreds of thousands continue to languish in concentration camps, tortured, starved, beaten I don't remember anyone saying RIP when Bin Laden was killed.

yabits:

" Well, there's Cambodia which overturned a communist regime and went back to monarchy. But I see your point. "

Umm, and when did that happen? I thought it was the Vietnames who kicked out the Khmer Rouge. And that Sihanouk rules again is news to me too. Please explain.

cleoDec. 19, 2011 - 12:42PM JST So, he's dead. It's neither good news nor bad news, just news.

Disagree. While we won't know the outcome for a while at least we know that there's a chance that the status quo may not remain, ie; there may be a chance that things may become better for the North Korean people. I don't think any of us thought there was any chance at all while Kim Jong Il was alive and in power.

some14someDec. 19, 2011 - 02:05PM JST Great Leader of his own era, R.I.P. Are you serious? I know most JT leaders are leaning to the left but this is extreme! yes, i am serious because somebody (Kim Jong-il) has died and his death has rattled asian stock markets as well. He was a great politician with an intelligent humor that we do'nt find in leaders of this region. He enjoyed full support of US administration as well. I mourn his death because my image of Kim does not match with Media image/hype. about Kim.

Just curious, what is your image of Kim Jong iL? That reflects preferably on facts about Kim Jong iL

On one note that doesn't regard some14some

I also agree celebrating anyone's death is wrong unless of course it's personal. Ex. Like if the killer of someone close to you dies.

CrazyJoeDec. 19, 2011 - 01:02PM JST

Let's see who (world leaders) will attend his funeral.

I've heard that the US State Dept decided not to send a condolence letter to NK.

Heads down! Wait for the missile launch to show how strong the next Great Fat Leader is. And perfect timing for Noda to bury bad news about, er, what was it? oh yes, the so called cold shutdown at Fuk u shima.

I've heard that the US State Dept decided not to send a condolence letter to NK

that' ok so long US continues to send food/Vitamins aid to NK.

Once all the mourning for Kim Jong-il is over, the challenge that will come fast for the young sucessor Kim Jong-Un in how he will explain the next big failure to a people desperate to see their lives improve. In a country where propaganda is truth, the regime Kim Jong-un now leads needs either some proof that the country is indeed strong and prosperous, or someone to blame for falling so far short. The worry must be that Kim Jong-un will stick to, or even wander beyond, his father’s script of provoking the country’s enemies to distract NK from the problems at home. It’s easier to fire blame and rockets towards South Korea, Japan and the U.S. than to reform the broken system that his father and grandfather built. And provoking a military crisis might help Kim Jong-un convince his father’s generals, who have known only confrontation since the state’s creation and the Korean War that followed, that he is the right person to lead them.

So much for conjuring up a positive image.So Deluded...

According to Asahi Shimbun and other media, Kim Jong-il directly ordered 朝鮮労働党対外情報調査部(WPK intelligence investigation) to carry out abductions.

No Blair, not according to Asahi. According to one Nork defector, as stated in the article. Dude, I would doubt a Nork defector if he told I could get 5 dollars off Huggies diapers at Walmart. You are just going to have to do better than that. Or are you trying to win the gullibility prize?

Others are talking about the gulags. I don't know just how responsible Kimmy was for those either. Sure, he was the leader of millions. But try to keep in mind, those millions are NUTS!

Better intel than a defector?? Can you offer some examples there dog?

No Blair, not according to Asahi. According to one Nork defector, as stated in the article.

So you have a source that suggests that this isn't true?

haha! YES! Good riddance to Bad Rubbish! im like many of you im Glad, Lets HOPE, wait & see could this be a better chapter for NK? Hey we (most people) just want a better life for north Koreans. they suffered long enough. IF the son is smart he would want to reunifie. the smart way would be to send south Koreans & other to NK & start to build better Hospitals & schools. (thats the easy part) I know i know its gonna cost Billions & take years but if the south koreans really want it it could happen. many countries would be willing to Help.

I ****certainly don't mind that this idiot died. Didn't celebrate it but will get a laugh at how the idiot N. Korean people who get so emotional about their beloved Dear Leader. Especially when we see things like this in the story

North Korean legend has it that Kim was born on Mount Paekdu, one of Korea’s most cherished sites, in 1942, a birth heralded in the heavens by a pair of rainbows and a brilliant new star.

Are these people for real? heralded in the heavens by a pair of rainbows? Well I think I saw those rainbows on 17 Dec. too. Maybe he left the same way he got here. On his spaceship to the planet Juche. You know that self sufficient planet he forgot to take his minions back to. Lets hope the next overindulged Kim can do some good for the country because this idiot sure as heck didn't. But I won't hold my breath. I can hardly wait for the laugh to see what they dub this new pudge as: The Dear Brat Leader or something the like would be a much better choice of whatever ego stroke-off they are sure to come up with.

Well the heir in waiting (Young One) certainly didn't starve! He's even pudgier than his Dad.

Better intel than a defector?? Can you offer some examples there dog?

This is an ex-agent and ex-agents have told some pretty tall tales. I would believe two defectors who tell the same story if I have reason to believe they never met. But in the this case, even Choi, the other agent, did not tell that story it seems, so so much for that! I would believe one defector if their story could be confirmed by some sort of recon or separate intelligence.

But to believe one ex-agent defector blaming the current leader for something that happened before that leader actually had political power? Come on! He is obviously just trying to score points! The way the Japanese believe these people is almost cultish in its naivete.

So you have a source that suggests that this isn't true?

No. I never said I did. I am saying that the only reason you have to believe it is true is very unreliable source and a will to believe.

And your asking me to prove a negative only indicates how lost you are. I can't prove Kim had nothing to do with it. But there are several reasons to think its unlikely. Kim himself presented a very plausible explanation. He said it was some gung ho agents with something to prove.

Serrano - The scenes of North Koreans crying at the news of the dictator's death was amazing. They all seem genuinely broken-up. Even the N Korean lady newscaster who always announces the news with vigor was speaking in a shaky voice. I wonder what the punishment would be to act indifferently, or, God forbid, seem happy at this news.

While I haven't seen the N Korean lady newscaster, I have seen multiple viewings of 7 or 8 different groups of N Koreans wailing in front of the cameras. What I noticed is that were no "tears", just wailing. I have to wonder if these people are actually upset or were performing on command? Were they paid to wail or otherwise coerced?

North Korean media also reported that on Kim Jong Il's first time to the golf course he got five holes- in-one, and routinely got 3 or 4 holes-in-one! Not only that, on his first trip to the bowling alley he scored - get ready - 300! Impressive or what!

OssanAmerica: #Ok. Next time you get onmjy case for bashing anything I'll remind you that I'm just taklng a "playful; jab"."

What an adult response! So you're admitting from here on in your responses will not be open-minded or relevant to the topic, they'll just be sorry, pouty, four-year-old like tantrums. Good for you!

"Considereting the subject ad text of the article I doubt very much you were "NOT" making specific reference to Kim Jong Il."

Wow... and clearly thick-headed to boot! Yes, I was saying the death of Kim Jong Il should not be celebrated any more than anyone else (ie. no one's death should be celebrated, since I have to dummy it down for you). Cherry-pick my comments all you like, won't change how dumb you just made yourself look.

You-Junkinjapan: "Koreans tend to over-exaggerate. That kind of wailing is all part and parcel of their behavior. I think it's good for a laugh though."

As do bigots. Well done on proving it so. Quick question though, bushlover, do you have anything to offer on the thread besides bigotry? South Korean people do not follow the same things as those in the North, for various reasons. Your blanket racism doesn't help your trolling.

TinMadDog

No. I never said I did. I am saying that the only reason you have to believe it is true is very unreliable source and a will to believe.

I'm not saying you did, but you are eager to disbelieve the story. Sure it may not be true, but I would hazard on the side of truth considering Kim Jong Il's other actions. On balance if you put together all his actions you can only conclude that he is in fact a truly horrible person.

I'm HAPPY,HAPPY,HAPPY,HAPPY,HAPPY!!! but i'm really annoyed at how the nk cry over him...WTF! really? u like this nutcase loser, leader?! @_@ now his son's in control, kinda nervous...koreans --'

Time to mark him off the World's Problem List just like the others. On a real note most of us american are happy he is gone, but now worry about the NK people and his son and what the future will bring to their country.

In case many of you peeps forgot..... lets go back to 2008 here at Japan Today N Korea's Kim died in 2003; replaced by lookalike, says Waseda professor http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/north-koreas-kim-died-in-2003-and-was-replaced-by-lookalike-says-waseda-profesor

smithinjapanDec. 20, 2011 - 11:54PM JST OssanAmerica: #Ok. Next time you get onmjy case for bashing anything I'll remind you that I'm just taklng a "playful; >jab"." "What an adult response! So you're admitting from here on in your responses will not be open-minded or relevant to the topic, they'll just be sorry, pouty, four-year-old like tantrums. Good for you!"

Yes smith my responsers are "adult", while yours are "playful jabs:" My responses are always open mnded and huighly relevant to the article because I'm not the one with a US and Japan bashing agenda.

"Considereting the subject ad text of the article I doubt very much you were "NOT" making specific reference to Kim Jong Il."

Wow... and clearly thick-headed to boot! Yes, I was saying the death of Kim Jong Il should not be celebrated any >more than anyone else (ie. no one's death should be celebrated, since I have to dummy it down for you). Cherry-pick >my comments all you like, won't change how dumb you just made yourself look.

Nice try but years of openly supporting North Korea on every thread concerning that topic simply makes you look foolish even attemping to deny it now. Maybe you should go hug an escalator.

Vaclav Havel the former Czech president recently died and was honored for the great man he was. He deserves our attention and respect, Not Kim the evil megalomaniac, he deserves nor but scorn and derision.