Obama calls on Democrats to fight to preserve his health care reform

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  • 4

    CrazyJoe

    Let the GOP repeal the whole thing.

    There are millions and millions of Trump voters who have benefited from Obamacare, like all those coal miners in Kentucky and all the people who have preexisting conditions.

    Time for those Trump voters to reap what they have sown and enjoy the new Republican alternative health insurance called "Emergencyroomcare".

  • 2

    SuperLib

    The GOP is too fractured to produce major policy of any kind. Look for them to fumble and punt and spend most of the time blaming Democrats for the GOP's inability to lead.

    Or they can prove me wrong and make me happy. But after 8 years your have to be pretty stupid to blindly extend them trust.

  • -8

    bass4funk

    Let the GOP repeal the whole thing.

    One could only pray and hope!

    There are millions and millions of Trump voters who have benefited from Obamacare, like all those coal miners in Kentucky and all the people who have preexisting conditions.

    And even more of them that couldn't afford the rising premiums, especially after last November 1st and millions that just couldn't afford it or it didn't work for them, you forgot that perspective as well.

    Time for those Trump voters to reap what they have sown and enjoy the new Republican alternative health insurance called "Emergencyroomcare".

    No regrets so far. Hey, only 16 more days left!

  • 4

    Laguna

    They broke the health care system.

    Paul Ryan lies. Look at the flattening of medical inflation since the ACA was instituted - not to mention the tens of millions of newly-insured, and that translates into better, cheaper preventive healthcare rather than freebie emergency room visits.

    I understand that the ACA is unpopular, but insurance will always be - until it is needed. That is human nature.

    The ACA works and is getting better as insurers adjust. But, as I said the other day, Paul Ryan and his ilk intend to yank enough bricks out of the edifice to bring the whole thing down and then try to blame it on the Democrats.

    Typical Republican "governance."

  • -6

    theFu

    ObamaCare screwed over my family. Our costs almost tripled for less coverage every month. Tax credits don't help us.

    We don't want the govt involved in this stuff. That is what voters against Hillary wanted. I didn't vote FOR Mr. Trump. I voted AGAINST Ms. Clinton.

  • -7

    deadbeatles

    Bush gave you HDTV... Obama gave you ACA. Same legacy outcome. You pay higher premium each year, the field of options becomes smaller. More Amerikans are insured at the expense of those 'forced' into paying, under penalty of law. Premium and deductibles increase 40-50% per year, with no open markets. It's factual that its cheaper to pay out of pocket, for procedures performed in office. A simple call to your Dr's office* will* confirm. So... before some liberal sounds off, I would suggest you haven't had any recent need for physician services. 'Obamacare' has only two beneficiaries...big pharma and the insurance industry. Did you even notice neither industry argued against implementation...or were you sleeping through that one too.

  • -6

    Wolfpack

    Repeal it with only Republican votes and start over from scratch. No replace, just repeal it. Then start over in a least at somewhat bipartisan fashion so that both halves of the polarized American people feel like their needs have been addressed. If the two sides in Congress cannot come to a compromise then so be it. Let the states take on the problem and come up with their own solutions (California seems to be itching to go it's own way on everything now). I see Dems becoming big time states rights proponents again over the next 4 to 8 years.

  • -4

    bass4funk

    Paul Ryan lies. Look at the flattening of medical inflation since the ACA was instituted - not to mention the tens of millions of newly-insured, and that translates into better, cheaper preventive healthcare rather than freebie emergency room visits.

    What in blazes are you talking about? Seriously??! Ryan didn't lie. One big factor for Hillary's loss is the fact that she was going to continue and keep Obamacare in it's current form. A big sinker.

    http://fortune.com/2016/10/25/obamacare-insurance-premiums-2017-healthcare/

    I understand that the ACA is unpopular, but insurance will always be - until it is needed. That is human nature.

    Yes, but NOT as unpopular or complicated as this mess.

    The ACA works and is getting better as insurers adjust.

    For some if they can afford it, but for my sister who has 2 sick children, the premiums killed her and she had to cancel her policy and now pays as she goes and oh, there is this......

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/17/news/economy/obamacare-insurers/

    But, as I said the other day, Paul Ryan and his ilk intend to yank enough bricks out of the edifice to bring the whole thing down and then try to blame it on the Democrats.

    Of course, NOT a single Republican voted for this bad system, so definitely the responsibility falls on the Dems and in particular Obama's lap.

    Typical Democrat ignorance.

  • 5

    Strangerland

    One big factor for Hillary's loss is the fact that she was going to continue and keep Obamacare in it's current form.

    What are YOU talking about? The people liked Hillary's plans more than Trump's, which is why she got 3 million more votes than he did. She lost for one reason and one reason only - the Electoral college went against the will of the people, and chose the person they were clear that they didn't want.

  • -5

    Serrano

    Obamacare basically bites the big one. It needs to be repealed and replaced with something that works and is fair.

    Oh my...

    Make America Great Again vs Make America Sick Again:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYR2WonAXpQ

  • 3

    katsu78

    deadbeatlesJAN. 05, 2017 - 09:44AM JST It's factual that its cheaper to pay out of pocket, for procedures performed in office. A simple call to your Dr's office* will* confirm. So... before some liberal sounds off, I would suggest you haven't had any recent need for physician services.

    Yes, it is true that cash payments for medical treatments are discounted in the US. However that discount has nothing on the enormous markup hospitals, drug makers, and medical appliance makers charge in the US compared to in other nations with single-payer health care systems with state control of prices. And they mark up those prices in the US for no other reason than because they can.

    The evidence is abundant that America's pre-Obamacare system cost far above the international average while delivering outcomes far below the international standard. The ACA certainly doesn't go far enough to fix the problem, but it's far better than where we were as a nation and it's shortcomings are largely a result of Democrats being forced to negotiate with the people now calling the shots.

  • -8

    bass4funk

    What are YOU talking about? The people liked Hillary's plans more than Trump's, which is why she got 3 million more votes than he did.

    Well, in 16 days Trump will be president, so it doesn't matter and besides in my state, most of the biggest insurers left and that's just a fact, so many people can't pay their premiums and so many people are not satisfied with it and can't afford it. You keep focusing on some of the people that are happy with it, there are two sides of that coin. You keep going on about the popular vote, it has nothing to do with Obamacare, Strange, it was a lie, you can't keep your doctor, for most people, even my own sister had to cancel her plan and many many people are paying 20-30% more. It's on its last legs and Obama will be out of here in two weeks and MOST of it will be thankfully repealed and there is NOT a darn thing the Democrats can do about it. Obama's legacy is passé.

  • 4

    Strangerland

    Well, in 16 days Trump will be president, so it doesn't matter and besides in my state, most of the biggest insurers left and that's just a fact, so many people can't pay their premiums and so many people are not satisfied with it and can't afford it.

    I'm pointing out how you once again tried to incorrectly attribute Obama's policies to the reason why Hillary wasn't elected.

    I'm going to do this every time you try to claim that the people support Trump, or that something about Obama convinced the people to not vote for Hillary, since the facts show that the people supported Hillary over Trump, which included continuing on his policies.

    Trump does not have a mandate. He has the electoral college. Not like Obama who got the support of the people two times in a row. Trump hasn't even been able to do it once.

  • -11

    bass4funk

    I'm pointing out how you once again tried to incorrectly attribute Obama's policies to the reason why Hillary wasn't elected.

    Yeah, the left should keep telling themselves that, at any rate, it doesn't matter, Trump will be inaugurated, signed, sealed and delivered and No matter how the Dems and Hollywood blow up, this is it, so I would advise the left to calm down and just go about their lives, because for the next 4-8 years you guys just have to deal with it.

    I'm going to do this every time you try to claim that the people support Trump, or that something about Obama convinced the people to not vote for Hillary, since the facts show that the people supported Hillary over Trump, which included continuing on his policies.

    likewise, I know the left put Obama on the iron throne, but his time has come and like the dinosaur, his time is up. Obama and the Dems are responsible for the corruption, making a ACA that was never affordable, never practical for the majority of Americans, policies that people hated, never took responsibility and never to this day admit to anything wrong doings. This is the result.

    Trump does not have a mandate.

    He sure does.

    He has the electoral college.

    Exactly! That is the point and right on the mark! And as such, he will be the new president, so Pelosi and all the other Democrats better get their ducks in order and hope Trump will not repeal TOO much of this failed healthcare policy. The Democrats are not only the minorities, but are at an extreme disadvantage politically and legislatively.

  • 6

    Strangerland

    Yeah, the left should keep telling themselves that

    Of course, we're not going to lie to ourselves.

    He sure does.

    Nope. The people voted for Hillary, by 3 million votes.

  • 4

    Strangerland

    what difference at this point does it make?

    A big one. The right needs to remember that they don't speak for the people.

  • 7

    Mr. Noidall

    I was watching ABC news this morning and a reporter caught a republican member of congress--smuggness, indifference, power intoxication, all bleeding through his face--on the way down from Capitol Hill; she asked him what his party plans to do for the 20 million people who'll be left without insurance once Obamacare gets repealed. He replied that the party are still working on it. She then said: "you've been talking about axing Obama care for years now and you don't have an alternative yet?" The congressman rebutted: " I've been here for 22 years; I'm not in leadership!" The reporter took a few seconds to remember she was on camera and quickly wiped the shocked state off of her face. But not me. I'm still stunned. My immediate thought was what great criminality, grave incompetence, and complete utter shirking of the responsibility to work in the interests of the American people. The congress, in large part because of the republicans, are nothing but crooks, political gangbangers flying their flags either to the left or right. This cemented in my mind that the republicans are hellbent on destroying any policies of Obama, and not in the interests of the people but for their own selfish agenda.

    So too all the political gangbangers on this thread who fly their colors to right, I ask: what alternative can you suggest in place of Obamacare that will serve the interests of all American people, and one that is free from your gangbanging ideology that just serves your own interests?

  • 4

    Laguna

    Michael Hiltzik at the LA Times lays out some statistics which display the success of the ACA. I know that many will bemoan "liberal-state media" and so-called MSM - that's what they do whenever facts do not meet with their expectations. But these are facts. And the GOP wants to blow it all up and replace it with - uh, what? (Give them a break - they've only had over a half decade to work on this.)

    Look at the stats. Stats don't lie.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-charts-20170104-story.html

  • -7

    bass4funk

    Yeah, well, when the 20th comes and we sing all hail to the new chief then we can forget the past and start a new, with a new president and new mandate and repeal this crap and replace it with something more affordable, and something everyone can benefit from without having to pay extra for crap that some people don't need, maybe in a year or two or eight the libs will stop lurking in the past and drop Hillary. Who by the way will attend Trump's inauguration, good on her, at least she gets it. Hope she brought some flowers for Trump and some champagne.

    @laguna

    You're quoting the L.A. Times? Geez, just why don't you quote the NYT? You couldn't go further left? This is so not like you.

    https://www.bna.com/2017-obamacare-marketplace-n57982078645/

    *Under that program, plans with lower-cost enrollees are required to make payments to plans with higher-cost enrollees, and many small, new plans and CO-OPs that don't have historical data on their enrollees' health conditions have had to make large payments to established plans under the program.

    The current risk adjustment program “actively discriminates against younger and healthier people,” Policelli said.

    In addition, “it actively discriminates against lower-cost and higher-efficiency doctors and hospitals,” he said. “By driving out the healthier people and subsidizing the over-priced and inefficient providers, we end up with very high premiums that make insurance unaffordable to all but those with a lot of their own money or those who get huge subsidies.”*

    Good lord, I hope Trump changes this.

  • 3

    sf2k

    ACA and Insurance Companies are not the same thing. One is a broker, the other are companies that raised their rates. Why did the companies raise the rates? Because so many went to the hospital to actually get better.

    You're better off with a public system that deletes the profit incentive to maximize your illness or the deaths of your family members for shareholder value

    Expect GOP to blame "government" (which they represent tee hee) so that they can cut even more services. Mix. Repeat.

    USA can't even join the metric system, so expecting rational choices with the Wolves in power is not going to happen. With all the gerrymandering of ridings the GOP will stay in power as well. Can the USA last 4 years and then 8 years of this? I can't see it

    People are on record as saying they didn't think the GOP or Trump would cut their healthcare. They will now suffer for their ignorance

  • -4

    bass4funk

    ACA and Insurance Companies are not the same thing. One is a broker, the other are companies that raised their rates. Why did the companies raise the rates? Because so many went to the hospital to actually get better.

    So that's the excuse from the left? We were all told we could keep our rates down and we could keep our doctor and none of that wasn't true. The Democrats had 8 years to fix these problems and they did nothing, instead the costs kept mounting and ensuring the slow downfall of the Democrats.

    Expect GOP to blame "government" (which they represent tee hee) so that they can cut even more services. Mix. Repeat.

    Thankfully, NOT ONE Republican signed their name on Obamacare. Dodged that bullet! LOL

    USA can't even join the metric system, so expecting rational choices with the Wolves in power is not going to happen.

    And most people don't want it, they tried it in the 70's and it flopped. The US managed this far without and my guess is, they will do just fine without it.

    With all the gerrymandering of ridings the GOP will stay in power as well. Can the USA last 4 years and then 8 years of this? I can't see it

    We did under Obama and I thought the world will fall in itself and that didn't happen, so.....

    People are on record as saying they didn't think the GOP or Trump would cut their healthcare. They will now suffer for their ignorance.

    Not cut, repeal and replace, thankfully.

  • 4

    cleo

    none of that wasn't true

    So all of it was true? Then what are you complaining about?

    Not cut, repeal and replace

    Replace with what?

    I don't understand why (some) Americans get so cut up about proper health care.

  • 3

    goldorak

    This is THE one thing I have never understood in US politics: Dems and Reps inability to come up with a decent health care system that works for all. I mean disagree about pretty much everything else as much as you want like we do abroad but we are talking here about basic care for all your citizens. if others can do it why can't you?

    That both sides are 'ok' with their third world health care system in 2017 is mind blowing.

  • -2

    FizzBit

    Definitely repeal it. The one reason I voted for Obama in his first term was for health care. BOY did he disappoint. Sold out to the insurance companies who actually wrote the ACA. When I heard about Obama selling out, I knew that the "Hope and Change" was just a scam.

    Single payer, or something similar is coming to the US. Maybe now, but definitely later. Might as well do it now IMO. I don't have any hopes of Trump doing it but he has surprised before.

    The US system is controlled by big pharma and big medicine. Mandatory de-listing of these companies from the stock market, if possible, would help in the short term. Taking down these companies and replacing it with a single-payer system is going to be a fight to the death for these companies. Ralph Nader was our only recent hope, and someday we will elect a president for this job. I'm sure the DNC, just like they did to Sanders, destroyed Nader as well. It seems every time the DNC gets involved in destroying campaigns they always shoot themselves in the foot doing so. When will they ever learn?

  • 1

    Strangerland

    Single payer, or something similar is coming to the US.

    This is the only thing that the government, republican or democrat, can replace the ACA with in order to make it better. It's also the one option the republican government will absolutely refuse to entertain, just as they did when it was put forward by the democrats when the ACA was being created.

    The only real question about what happens with the next administration is whether they repeal it or not, and if they do, whether or not they replace it, which if they do, how bad the replacement will be.

    They're stuck in a bit of a bad place here. They've had over 50 votes to repeal it until now, but at that time there was never any risk of it actually being repealed, so they looked good to their constituency for trying. But now that they actually could win a vote to repeal it, they have absolutely nothing better to replace it with, and repealing it will screw millions of people, making it a bad move for them. If they don't repeal it, they alienate their base that has supported them in repealing it until now, and if they do repeal it, they alienate the millions of people who will end up in a worse position than they are now, unless they replace it with the single-payer option, which will be back to alienating their original base.. So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

  • 4

    Mr. Noidall

    Not cut, repeal and replace, thankfully.

    Ok. I'm listening. Replace it with what? How long have the republicans been bitching about obamacare? Why do they still not have a viable alternative? Why do the republicans, including the president-elect, continue to speak in vague slogans? When will an actual plan be formulated? When will they stop bitching and do some actual work? Why didn't the president-elect already have his cabinet in mind before he won? Why is he still scrambling to put together his cabinet? Why ? Why? Why? Why? Can you imagine if I went to work, a staff meeting and only criticised and bitched and didn't offer any alternatives? Can you imagined if I flat out refused to work with my coworkers because I didn't like them on a personal level? Why? Why? Why?

  • -3

    FizzBit

    So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    Wait and see I guess. One thing, Trump is no Republican and he's also kicked out K Street. I've actually got a feeling that Trump will propose a single payer system. Wouldn't that be a surprise! lol

  • -5

    bass4funk

    Replace with what?

    Remains to be seen, but it won't be just a quick cut to repeal, it's going to be gradual.

    I don't understand why (some) Americans get so cut up about proper health care.

    the majority of Americans don't, one problem is having the government that's not the problem, the problem was always what was told to the people and how it was implemented and everything that Obama said what the healthcare was supposed to do, it didn't for the most part, even House Democrats like Chuck Shumer admit they spent too much time on just passing it through just to get it through and through the years, never tried to fix any of the complaints and the thing is so Godawful and so expensive, many of the largest company insurers are bailing and bailing fast.

    The coming year may be the most difficult for the health insurance marketplaces, as premiums are rising at much higher rates than the previous two years and some of the largest insurers—UnitedHealth Group Inc., Aetna Inc., Humana Inc. and some state Blue Cross Blue Shield plans—are withdrawing from many states due to mounting plan losses.

    Definitely repeal it. The one reason I voted for Obama in his first term was for health care. BOY did he disappoint. Sold out to the insurance companies who actually wrote the ACA. When I heard about Obama selling out, I knew that the "Hope and Change" was just a scam.

    BINGO!

  • 4

    takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com

    Remains to be seen, but it won't be just a quick cut to repeal, it's going to be gradual.

    Republicans have been on this for the better part of a decade. Still no plan? Yes. We should just trust Republicans, you know, the same folks who voted to do away with the ethics panel. What could possibly go wrong!?

    the majority of Americans don't, one problem is having the government that's not the problem,

    No, no. That is and always WAS the problem. Republicans framed a single payer system as being socialist/communist, and we all know socialism is evil. The US's healthcare problems are too complicated for this overly simplified rhetoric.

  • -5

    bass4funk

    Republicans have been on this for the better part of a decade. Still no plan? Yes.

    Again: some of the largest insurers—UnitedHealth Group Inc., Aetna Inc., Humana Inc. and some state Blue Cross Blue Shield plans—are withdrawing from many states due to mounting plan losses.

    Evidently, Obama had a plan and it didn't work, if the largest insurers are leaving, what do you have? A disaster. That wasn't the Republicans, they weren't even involved in it, it was all Democrats.

    We should just trust Republicans, you know, the same folks who voted to do away with the ethics panel. What could possibly go wrong!?

    Oh, please don't get me started with a litany list of things that went wrong with Democrats for the last 8 years, we'll be here all day.

    No, no. That is and always WAS the problem. Republicans framed a single payer system as being socialist/communist, and we all know socialism is evil.

    Pretty much is.

    The US's healthcare problems are too complicated for this overly simplified rhetoric.

    It actually wasn't. Most Americans wouldn't have objected to Obama helping the 15 million that DIDN'T have health insurance, he, Gruber and Manuel didn't have to overhaul the entire system, I had a great health plan before Obama came into office, I personally felt that the system in many parts needed to be ratified, but not for the millions that WERE happy with the plans that they had.

  • -4

    FizzBit

    This is the only thing that the government, republican or democrat, can replace the ACA with in order to make it better. It's also the one option the republican government will absolutely refuse to entertain

    Most of those jerks were on big pharma payroll. The Trump brings a whole new perspective to DC. Can't wait to see what's next!

  • 3

    takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com

    Evidently, Obama had a plan and it didn't work, if the largest insurers are leaving, what do you have? A disaster. That wasn't the Republicans, they weren't even involved in it, it was all Democrats.

    Get rid of the "largest health insurance." Single payer all the way. But let's be clear, you don't want that do you? Republicans want to repeal, have wanted to repeal it since its inception. Again, its been more than 6 years since its passage, if they had a plan, they should have put something for by now.

    And to be clear, Obama and Dems wanted a single payer system, but Republicans would have no part of that.

    Oh, please don't get me started with a litany list of things that went wrong with Democrats for the last 8 years, we'll be here all day.

    Yes. Benghazi. Emails. Obama the secret communist, Muslim, Kenyan. We've heard it all before, and deflection doesn't work, sorry.

    Pretty much is

    Again, showing how little you know. The US, and all other developed nations, guess what, have elements of socialism and free markets.

    It actually wasn't. Most Americans wouldn't have objected to Obama helping the 15 million that DIDN'T have health insurance,

    It actually was. 45 million Americans were without healthcare. That sounds good to you?

    I had a great health plan before Obama came into office, I personally felt that the system in many parts needed to be ratified, but not for the millions that WERE happy with the plans that they had.

    Ratified? How does one ratify a healthcare system? That aside; Had Republicans agreed to a single payer system, you still would have had great healthcare. It works in nearly every other developed nation, but American Exceptionalism. Setting aside, of course, the disparity in outcomes between the US and the rest.

  • 1

    Strangerland

    Still no plan?

    Again: some of the largest insurers—UnitedHealth Group Inc., Aetna Inc., Humana Inc. and some state Blue Cross Blue Shield plans—are withdrawing from many states due to mounting plan losses.

    That doesn't address the point that there is no plan on what to replace it with.

    We should just trust Republicans, you know, the same folks who voted to do away with the ethics panel. What could possibly go wrong!?

    Oh, please don't get me started with a litany list of things that went wrong with Democrats for the last 8 years, we'll be here all day.

    Ok, then address the point that was brought up instead.

    Most of those jerks were on big pharma payroll.

    And suddenly they aren't? Still the same republican party. Trump doesn't appoint congress.

  • -3

    Serrano

    "Nope. The people voted for Hillary, by 3 million votes."

    Sorry, Stranger, but a bunch of ignorant people in New York and California don't decide who will be the president of the United States, lol.

    "That doesn't address the point that there is no plan on what to replace it with."

    Sure there is. You must have missed this:

    Trump's healthcare plan, released in March, focuses on seven broad bullet point measures that promise to overturn Obamacare, break down state barriers and even expand healthcare access.

    A complete repeal of the Affordable Care Act, as no citizen should be forced to buy health insurance.

    Congress should break down state barriers to allow insurance companies to offer plans in any state, as long as the plan is in compliance with state requirements.

    Give people the ability to deduct insurance premium payments from taxes, as businesses are already allowed this deduction. Further, Trump pushes for a review of Medicaid options to make sure everyone who wants healthcare coverage is able to afford it.

    Establish tax-free Health Savings Accounts, which could become part of an individual’s estate and passed on to heirs without an estate penalty. Additionally, all family members can use the account without penalty.

    Trump calls for price transparency from providers and hospital organizations, to allow individuals to shop for the best prices on treatments.

    Medicaid should be handled on the state level, including incentives, to ‘preserve our precious resources.’

    Break down barriers that prevent drug providers of less expensive, safe products from entering the free market. And consumers should be allowed access to safe, imported drugs from overseas.

  • -4

    bass4funk

    Get rid of the "largest health insurance." Single payer all the way. But let's be clear, you don't want that do you?

    No, I'd rather go with the public option.

    Republicans want to repeal, have wanted to repeal it since its inception.

    "THAT" garbage, you betcha!

    Again, its been more than 6 years since its passage, if they had a plan, they should have put something for by now.

    Sure, but they have time, they can repeal the parts that are causing so much grief to many Americans and during that time contemplate what they should keep and what is less costly.

    Yes. Benghazi. Emails. Obama the secret communist, Muslim, Kenyan. We've heard it all before, and deflection doesn't work, sorry.

    Not deflecting anything, just saying liberals can't say anything about conservatives with the mess that they have created these past 8 years and I'm just saying if ya'll want to compare notes, I would advise against it, especially when it comes to Obamacare. By the way, how much did it cost to build that website again? And does it work finally?

    Again, showing how little you know. The US, and all other developed nations, guess what, have elements of socialism and free markets.

    I do know, I lived for 25 year and grew up in Europe in total, now I don't, but I could care less how they do things, I care only about what happens in the US.

    It actually was. 45 million Americans were without healthcare. That sounds good to you?

    Sounds roughly right, 46 million on food stamps, why it does all sound familiar, in 16 more days, let's restart and make progress and forget the past 8 years.

    Ratified? How does one ratify a healthcare system? That aside; Had Republicans agreed to a single payer system, you still would have had great healthcare.

    Thank God they didn't, I say, let's go with the public option.

    It works in nearly every other developed nation,

    Good for them.

    but American Exceptionalism. Setting aside, of course, the disparity in outcomes between the US and the rest.

    Oh, don't start.....so many holes....

  • -2

    Serrano

    This is interesting -

    Mike Huckabee: ObamaCare is structured to fail:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZMYuccCnI

  • 1

    Simon Foston

    SerranoJAN. 05, 2017 - 11:54PM JST

    This is interesting -

    NO, as usual it's some tedious aging conservative saying exactly what you would expect a conservative to say. What revelations can we expect from you next? Someone from the Ku Klux Klan saying the segregation laws should be brought back, maybe? Or a NRA spokesperson saying it's good to own a gun?

    How about this, from Donald Trump -

    "...time for Republicans & Democrats to get together and come up with a healthcare plan that really works - much less expensive & FAR BETTER!"

    What a good idea. But here was me thinking that, like he said in 2015, he himself had "something terrific" in mind to replace it with. I guess not.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    I'm not hearing any replacement ideas from Republicans here.

  • -3

    bass4funk

    What a good idea. But here was me thinking that, like he said in 2015, he himself had "something terrific" in mind to replace it with. I guess not.

    You guys, I really admire that you are holding him responsible as president, even though, he is NOT YET the inaugurated president of the US, after the 20th and after the first 100 days it would be fair to judge the new admin. until then, Obama is still at the helm.

    I'm not hearing any replacement ideas from Republicans here.

    You don't need to right away, there is more than enough time to repeal, keep it going with the main provisions intact and get rid of the junk that we don't need, come up with an alternative and replace it. Simple as that. The notion and the angst that the left are trying (in vain, once again...sigh) to stir up in people that the GOP will leave everyone out in the cold is just utter nuttiness. I think liberals are their own worst enemy in all of this. life will go on, Obama will go on, most of it at least with some much needed changes and an alternative comes, it will be replaced. The GOP NOW with a REPUBLICAN president CAN do a lot than if they didn't have one. So this is a different game changer. Before Obama was a man who just didn't want to budge or meet anywhere in the middle on this and now with Trump and the congress in the hands of the GOP they can do what they want and how they want and Obama and the Dems have no one else to blame for this. Obama and the Dems had more than enough time 8 years to listen to the people and work on making the ACA less costly and less of a headache and now that boat sailed for the Democrats, so they really don't have a lot of room to moan and groan

  • 1

    Strangerland

    Sorry, Stranger, but a bunch of ignorant people in New York and California don't decide who will be the president of the United States, lol.

    So a bunch of (ignorant?) people in the flyover states do?

    You realize that sword cuts both ways, right?

    As for the seven points listed, they are not a replacement. They are a bunch of talking points that literally have no substance behind them. You can't replace obamacare with 7 points, you need a fully-developed comprehensive system, which no one has produced.

    there is more than enough time to repeal, keep it going with the main provisions intact

    Well which is it, repeal it, or keep it going with the main provisions intact?

  • 2

    SuperLib

    What does it mean when someone says they will repeal something but keep the major provisions in place? I don't understand.

    And will the insurance companies be stopped from leaving the marketplace or should I not worry about that?

  • -2

    bass4funk

    You realize that sword cuts both ways, right?

    Yes and I hope you and the left realize that as well.

    Well which is it, repeal it

    You can repeal it, begin the process and not disrupt the consumers coverage by honoring it, sorry, the GOP is not going to hand a bone to the Dems and just throw people out in the cold, you guys that stupid trick won't fly.

    , or keep it going with the main provisions intact?

    Depends on what it is. In 15 days when President elect Donald J. Trump is sworn in, he and his cabinet will have then officially taken over and ACA is the top priority.

  • -3

    Wolfpack

    @Bass: I would advise the left to calm down and just go about their lives, because for the next 4-8 years you guys just have to deal with it.

    You are so right Bass. That's what makes Trumps coming inauguration so satisfying - and I didn't even vote for him. For the last eight years conservatives had to put up with an American president that was more ideologically aligned with the dictator of Cuba than the democratically elected prime minister of Israel. It is truly awesome to see Obama's reign of terror against the US Constitution come to an end (nice hyperbole eh?).

    I want Democrats to feel every once of the disdain for Trump that conservatives felt of Obama. The best way for Trump to ensure this is to use every one of the executive powers that were so greatly expanded under Obama to run roughshod over the vast majority of Obama's "legacy". Start with ObamaCare and immediately eradicate as much of it as possible giving it only a year or so before it's gone. Even going back to what we had before is better.

    Maybe after a year or two of rage the Dems will finally decide that they need to compromise on a new health care policy that fits the varied needs of all people instead of the ideologically inspired garbage that they shoved down the countries throat without a single vote from the opposition back in 2010. End it, don't mend it.

  • 1

    Strangerland

    You can repeal it, begin the process and not disrupt the consumers coverage by honoring it

    You start the sentence saying you can repeal it, then finish the sentence saying to continue it.

    Again, I ask, which is it?

    I want Democrats to feel every once of the disdain for Trump that conservatives felt of Obama.

    I don't think you have to worry about that at all.

    Maybe after a year or two of rage the Dems will finally decide that they need to compromise on a new health care policy

    That already happened, the result being the lack of the single-payer system that Obama and the left wanted.

  • -2

    Wolfpack

    I don't think you have to worry about that at all.

    I'm counting on it. Let's break it down and send everything to the states where things can get done.

    That already happened, the result being the lack of the single-payer system that Obama and the left wanted.

    I get tired of this line. The Left had a filibuster proof majority for nearly 2 years and Obama could barely bribe enough Democrats with goodies to get the monstrosity that afflicts the American people now. So not only were Republicans all against it but Obama couldn't convince all Dems to go for it when it was sitting there for the taking. There will be no single payer. The far Left Dems want it but there was too much disagreement within the party to push it through when they had a super-majority.

  • 2

    SuperLib

    Ryan announced the the GOP will attempt to close down Planned Parenthood. Does anyone here know why they would do that?

  • 0

    Alphaape

    The problem with the US health system is that for any one hospital, the same procedure can cost different prices. If your insurance is part of their healthcare group, then you get one price for a procedure, out of network, you get another price. On Medicaid or Medicare, yet another price. Hospitals in the US are running at about a 60% occupancy rate now. To fix the health care system what needs to be done is a one set of prices needs to be made for procedures. Once you have a set price, then we need to treat health insurance just like any other insurance. If you have home owners and something happens to your house, when you go and get repairs done, you are not limited to going only to Lowe's, or Home Depot, or any other store based on your insurance plan, you get set amount, and you find the materials within your price and you get the work done. Same needs to be done with health insurance.

    At one time before the onset of the OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Admin) there were various industry safety standards and not one unified set of standards. When the law passed in 1973, it set up a codified set of standards for safety for all industries to adhere to, and has been modified over the years. The same can be done for healthcare costs, if the healthcare industry and governments really put their minds to it.

    Level the prices, make the insurance mobile (if your car is insured in one state and while driving in another state you have an accident, you are still covered without paying some penalty) so that plans like auto insurance can be offered nationwide and you may see a decrease in the costs and coverage more affordable.

  • 1

    Bartholomew Harte

    With the type of people Trump is picking for Cabinet positions the average american worker will be sucking wind On Top of Not having health care- I lost my "Healthcare" & was told try another, well this plan is useless but i Have to have Some Plan or PAY a $650.00 Penalty! God Help America-

  • 0

    Alphaape

    well this plan is useless but i Have to have Some Plan or PAY a $650.00 Penalty! God Help America-

    @ Bartholomew Harte: I would think that if Obamacare is repealed or replaced, the provision to have mandatory health care and if not pay a tax penalty would also go away. Keeping something like that kind of goes against Trump's plan to redo the US tax code and make it easier. It's ok if you don't like him or the GOP plan to repeal it, but use a little reasoning before making comments.

  • 1

    Simon Foston

    bass4funkJAN. 06, 2017 - 01:47AM JST

    "I'm not hearing any replacement ideas from Republicans here."

    You don't need to right away, there is more than enough time to repeal, keep it going with the main provisions intact and get rid of the junk that we don't need, come up with an alternative and replace it.

    Not acceptable, given how long these supposedly smart, pragmatic people have had to work out what they would do differently and better. The fact that they're still talking about it like a lot of dithering woolly-headed incompetents is not in the least bit encouraging.

  • -2

    Alphaape

    @ Simon Foston: Rushing to "sign it so we can see what's in it" got us to the point that we are at now. Trump even told the Congress to think hard on a replacement before going forward. You are right there has been a lot of time to come up with a replacement, but you seem to forget that even if a detailed plan was generated, it would not have had any chance in getting passed under Obama. Congress had other issues to govern on, sad but true. Also, if this had been a dream of Democrats since Hillary was First Lady while Bill Clinton was President back in the 90s, wouldn't they have come up with a much better plan when they gave us this law back in 2010? Blame to go around on both sides rushing to get their ideology passed without thinking through this thing and making real changes.

  • 3

    Simon Foston

    AlphaapeJAN. 06, 2017 - 01:13PM JST

    You are right there has been a lot of time to come up with a replacement, but you seem to forget that even if a detailed plan was generated, it would not have had any chance in getting passed under Obama.

    But it could get passed after January 20th, couldn't it?

    Also, if this had been a dream of Democrats since Hillary was First Lady while Bill Clinton was President back in the 90s, wouldn't they have come up with a much better plan when they gave us this law back in 2010?

    Aren't the Republicans supposed to be a bit more clued-in about how things work in the real world than Democrats? If they are in fact just as clueless why would anyone vote for them?

  • 1

    Strangerland

    You are right there has been a lot of time to come up with a replacement, but you seem to forget that even if a detailed plan was generated, it would not have had any chance in getting passed under Obama.

    That's ridiculous. Obama did the best he could to get an effective health care system in place. If the other side had provided an improved option, instead of fighting Obamacare every step of the way with like 50 votes to repeal, he would have been open to it.

    The right has never come up with even a single suggestion on what to replace it with though.

  • -4

    Serrano

    Me: " This is interesting -

    Mike Huckabee: ObamaCare is structured to fail:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZMYuccCnI

    Simon: "NO, as usual it's some tedious aging conservative saying exactly what you would expect a conservative to say"

    Did the "tedious aging conservative" say anything that was untrue? No?

    Jordan fades back...

  • 1

    nishikat

    No, I'd rather go with the public option.

    To ObamaCare haters happily living in Japan with their government healthcare. Hint Hint! The only reliable alternative for ObamaCare is government healthcare in the USA.

  • -1

    Wolfpack

    Obama did the best he could to get an effective health care system in place.

    His best wasn't good enough. So today Trump had his election victory certified by Congress. Time for a new guy and a new phone and pen.

  • 1

    Simon Foston

    SerranoJAN. 06, 2017 - 06:32PM JST

    Did the "tedious aging conservative" say anything that was untrue? No?

    I wouldn't know, I never click on any of these links you keep copy/pasting. What I do know is that I don't need to in order to guess what a Republican thinks about Obamacare. I'm not saying it's untrue, it's just utterly predictable and thus boring. Find a link with a top Democrat saying Obamacare is structured to fail, and you might just actually have something interesting. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

  • 2

    nishikat

    in order to guess what a Republican thinks about Obamacare

    It's so funny that they (Republicans in Japan) hate ObamaCare but live in Japan and proudly use Japan's PUBLIC NATIONAL medical system.

  • -1

    bass4funk

    His best wasn't good enough. So today Trump had his election victory certified by Congress. Time for a new guy and a new phone and pen.

    I agree 110% and it looks like the public option is probably shaping up to be the way. Let's hope.

  • 1

    nishikat

    I agree 110% and it looks like the public option is probably shaping up to be the way. Let's hope.

    What was wrong with the public option before under Obama? They didn't like it because they thought the president (Obama) who tried to pass it was born in Kenya?

  • -1

    bass4funk

    Nishi

    What was wrong with the public option before under Obama?

    Obamacare not strong arming and putting other insurance companies out of business and giving and allowing people the right to choose the appropriate plan and have insurance companies to compete across State lines.

    Obama is irrelevant at this point we have 2 weeks left.

  • 1

    nishikat

    giving and allowing people the right to choose the appropriate plan and have insurance companies to compete across State lines.

    That's not the public option

    putting other insurance companies out of business

    Public option? How does this NOT damage insurance companies? And you want this? All these insurance companies in the USA are garbage anyway. They don't deserve to be in business. And how do you like the public insurance in Japan?

    All this just shows that people just hate Obama just because they feel like hating him.

  • -1

    bass4funk

    That's not the public option

    Under Trump it will be. That's your opinion, but Trump is going that route and thank God for that.

  • 1

    nishikat

    You can buy private insurance policies across state lines anyway. And if you go to the airport you can get travel insurance for the USA. Nothing new. So how is that the public option? If Trump says you can choose Medicare (for all) instead of private policy then I might believe that. But it could happen- just like green card amnesty! Can't wait.

    Trump followers believe anything he says.

    like....

    Ha ha. the wall! Yes, he is going to burn American tax payers with the wall and make them pay for it. What kind of naive Trump voter ever believed the Mexicans are going to pay for that stupid idea (which will just help the ladder and rope business). The wall! What a joke!

  • -2

    bass4funk

    You can buy private insurance policies across state lines anyway.

    With less options, far less options.

    And if you go to the airport you can get travel insurance for the USA. Nothing new. So how is that the public option? If Trump says you can choose Medicare (for all) instead of private policy then I might believe that.

    You can believe whatever you want.

    But it could happen- just like green card amnesty! Can't wait.

    How with the wall coming up?

    Trump followers believe anything he says.

    I think it's more like Trump deniers believe anything they like...LOL

    Ha ha. the wall! Yes, he is going to burn American tax payers with the wall and make them pay for it. What kind of naive Trump voter ever believed the Mexicans are going to pay for that stupid idea (which will just help the ladder and rope business). The wall! What a joke!

    Yeah, and also last year, EVERY liberal on the planet said, Trump could never, ever, possibly win in a million years, it will never happen. LMAO!

  • 0

    Strangerland

    The insurance companies in the US have been screwing the people for years. They don't deserve protection.

  • 1

    nishikat

    With less options, far less options.

    Like what? See? No specifics. Just believe the orange man.

    Yeah, and also last year, EVERY liberal on the planet said, Trump could never, ever, possibly win in a million years

    Trump is the one burning tax payers. Your vote not mine. I never wanted Trump because he just admitted he will burn the American tax payer for the stupid wall (tens and tens of billions). Hillary would not go for such a stupid wasteful idea.

    How with the wall coming up?

    Ladders and ropes They have worked for thousands of years. The wall will not work. Trump confirms:

    Trump has even admitted this. “If they ever get up [on the wall] they’re in trouble,” Trump said. “‘Cause there’s no way to get down… Maybe a rope.”

    The orange man is going to burn you. He admits that ladders and ropes can get people over the wall.

  • -2

    bass4funk

    The insurance companies in the US have been screwing the people for years. They don't deserve protection.

    Thank God, they will get a new lease on life after the 20th. about time.

    Like what? See? No specifics.

    I think the left are just angry because the clock is running out and they can see Obamacare slowly fizzling out in the horizon.

    Trump is the one burning tax payers. Your vote not mine.

    Not as much as Obama, but to undo his mess, it could, but yes, MY vote and darn proud of it.

    Ladders and ropes They have worked for thousands of years. The wall will not work. Trump confirms:

    He also said, With a wall, increased surveillance, more border patrol, sensors can all help.

    But my main thing is, that this healthcare law is scraped, dumped and given a proper burial and have it rise up from the ashes as something far better, less expensive and less of a hassle.

  • 1

    nishikat

    He also said, With a wall, increased surveillance, more border patrol, sensors can all help.

    And who is going to pay for all this? Not the Mexicans.

    as something far better, less expensive and less of a hassle.

    Are you talking Medicare for all?

    Not as much as Obama

    How? Obama is not building a wall

  • -1

    Wolfpack

    SuperLib: Ryan announced the the GOP will attempt to close down Planned Parenthood. Does anyone here know why they would do that?

    No he didn't. You will remain free to donate a hefty chunk of your income to fund Planned Parenthoods "health" services such as sucking the brains out of infant girls a few days before their natural birth. I hardly see it a constitutional right to compel all taxpayers to fork over a half billion dollars a year to ship baby parts around the county for medical research purposes. How about we start giving an equal amount to the NRA to teach gun safety?

  • -3

    bass4funk

    And who is going to pay for all this? Not the Mexicans.

    Actually, they will, through tariffs, remittances and taxing them on their money transfers through Western Union and other services that they use. There are plenty of ways to get the money. There is no way of getting around it, unless they want to send money in an envelope and good luck with that.

  • 1

    nishikat

    It's not going to happen. Just like Trump trying to prove that Obama was born in Kenya. Or just like he said he was going to have Hillary arrested. Hillary is not in jail and Trump can do nothing about it.

    Public option? Looks like Trump is going to put those insurance companies out of business.

  • -2

    Wolfpack

    Actually, they will, through tariffs, remittances and taxing them on their money transfers through Western Union and other services that they use.

    I am not too worried about the ability of the US government to figure out a way to get Mexicans to pay up. There are a huge number of ways to do it. I hope that Trump will simply pick up his pen and phone and order a small entry fee for each time a person enters the US over the border with Mexico. The money could be raised in a few years to build the wall. Continued fees could be used to maintain it indefinitely.

    The Left will whine and complain about securing the border because they don't believe that countries should even have a secured border. Whine all you want - most people don't care.

  • -2

    bass4funk

    It's not going to happen.

    Because you say so??? Lol! Hey, I didn't want Obama to be president, but it happened nonetheless.

    Public option? Looks like Trump is going to put those insurance companies out of business.

    Quite the opposite, the open business signs lights is about to light up.

  • 2

    nishikat

    Trump is already breaking promises which means the tax payers will pay for the wall. It's like Bush's Iraq war. Trump followers actually believe that he will have military outposts all along his wall and that's something tax payers don't want to pay for.

    Quite the opposite, the open business signs lights is about to light up.

    Trump is going to increase spending in public healthcare. How does that benefit private insurers?

  • -1

    Wolfpack

    Trump is already breaking promises which means the tax payers will pay for the wall.

    Since you are out of the loop and are obviously unaware that Trump has not yet been sworn in as president I will assume that what you mean is that Trump will not be able to get the wall built during his time in office. If after four years a substantial wall has not been built AND no money has been raised from Mexico to pay for it then you will have a legitimate argument to make. You have jumped the gun a bit given that Obama is still in office waging war against the interests of the American people. Keep up the whining and complaining though - it's great entertainment.

  • 0

    sf2k

    Public option is great. Some countries even include dental. It's worth it to be a citizen where the benefits outweigh the costs.

    USA doesn't make a wit of sense on what constitutes a spending priority. Your citizenship is a discount Blockbuster Video card that expired years ago

  • 0

    nishikat

    I will assume that what you mean is that Trump will not be able to get the wall built during his time in office.

    No, he won't (during or after) and I read up on it unlike Trump followers and this is what I found:

    How do you build a wall (from a physical/legal/political standpoint)....

    ...along the very long Rio Grand River (it's illegal to obstruct a river like that due to international law)?

    ...across vast sacred Indian grounds (Indians have been screwed enough)?

    ...on private property (most of the border in Texas is on private property and legal costs will add a lot to the border bill which Mexicans will not pay)?

    This is the problem with Trump followers. They just believe 100% what he says without reading up on stuff on their own. For example (Attention Trump followers- you can learn something here) Obama was not born in Kenya and the president just can't order Hillary or anyone else to be arrested like some king- but Trump voters always take his word on stuff like that like they are cult followers. They think he is a genius businessman (If you want to think that about someone like Bill Gates then you might have a point) They go to DonaldTrump.com to get their news and believe it 100%.

    And don't forget that ladders and ropes have worked for thousands of years to get over walls and they will continue to do so. And Trump voters think there will be some high tech weaponry to keep the Mexicans from climbing over with ladders and ropes. It is about as unrealistic and crazy as the idea of Reagan's Star Wars plan. Not to mention the cost- again, Mexicans will not pay anyway.

    Don't forget they tried to build a wall in 2006 where Hillary and Obama signed on bu they could not due to reasons mentioned above and others. How can Trump change this?

  • 0

    turbotsat

    @nishikat

    Those obstacles appear to have been overcome for the existing sections of the wall.

  • 0

    nishikat

    Those obstacles appear to have been overcome for the existing sections of the wall.

    Wrong

    There is no wall on the Rio Grande. There is still a lot of private property that exists along the border. American Indians won't put up with Trump messing with their land.

  • -1

    bass4funk

    Trump is already breaking promises which means the tax payers will pay for the wall.

    As long as it's being built, that's one broken promise, I'm happy to live with.

    It's like Bush's Iraq war.

    What about Obama's Afghanistan war?

    Trump followers actually believe that he will have military outposts all along his wall and that's something tax payers don't want to pay for.

    No, that's one of the reasons they voted for him and with the increased tariffs and remittances, that money can't be collected from Mexico easily.

  • -3

    turbotsat

    nishikat: There is no wall on the Rio Grande. There is still a lot of private property that exists along the border. American Indians won't put up with Trump messing with their land.

    There are already sections of wall along the Rio Grande. Private property is subject to eminent domain. Native American tribes are subordinate to the US Congress; note the federal highways that cross large reservations.

  • 0

    nishikat

    What about Obama's Afghanistan war?

    That was from 9/11 and what is Trump going to do that is different?

    No, that's one of the reasons they voted for him and with the increased tariffs and remittances, that money can't be collected from Mexico easily.

    Mexico is not a terrorist state. What other country has this rule? I can't think of any. This will not happen. There will be no restriction. mexico is not Iran. Won't happen, watch! Trump voters are suckers.

    There are already sections of wall along the Rio Grande. Private property is subject to eminent domain. Native American tribes are subordinate to the US Congress; note the federal highways that cross large reservations.

    Does Mexico keep the entire Rio Grande? Because the river is the border. And what happens when the Rio Grande change course (again)? By law the wall has to be built to allow the river to change course on its own which means it has to be build deep on the US side which gives Mexico some of the land of the US. Again, this is one important reason why the wall cannot be built. But Trump followers believe Trump 100%. They never doubt him.

    And all those lawsuits for the private land are going to add billions to the cost of the wall and Mexico will not pay.

  • -2

    turbotsat

    Here is a map from an old (2006 or so) article showing fence sections planned along the lower Rio Grande. I think construction of these started in 2008 or so. See if it addresses your concerns re the river, etc.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Tna_gibQiAc/R2SUKdXot2I/AAAAAAAAAG8/B53UYHpYzxs/s1600-h/Texas+Border+Fence+Map.jpg

    Texas already has border walls and fences:

    https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&q=border+wall+along+rio+grande

    (google images): border wall along rio grande

  • 1

    nishikat

    No they tried (Obama and Hillary even signed on) and they had so many problems they could not continue. It didn't work. It won't work under Trump either. He just brainwashes his followers to think so. He can try and it will only cost the US taxpayer while the wall is never finished and costs keep going up that Mexico will never pay for.

    To build the wall the US would end up giving up land to Mexico to take into consideration how the river shifts over time. All those American property owners will have to be sued first (with lots and lots of cost) then a lot of that land (again American land previously owned by Americans) would have to be given to the Mexican government to take into consideration the dynamics of the river. Do you think the Americans near the border want their land given to the Mexicans? No! Trump's wall will never be built. They tried and failed.

  • 0

    turbotsat

    There's 580 miles of barrier now, on a 1989-mile border.

    They've already had to jump through the hoops you mentioned to get to 580. And it's nothing as bad as running Hwy 10, Hwy 20, etc. across the country.

    1409 miles to go! Only 75 percent!

    And much of the hard part's done (near the populated areas of the border).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier

  • -3

    Serrano

    Oh my...

    OBAMA BLAMES BERNIE SANDERS FOR OBAMACARE REPEAL: Obama Thinks Bernie Undermined ACA:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SyGAvWn9Kk

  • 0

    nishikat

    1409 miles to go! Only 75 percent!

    No, they tried. Even with Obama and Hillary signing on for it the wall could not be built. Trump will break his promises to his followers. For example he said he could arrest Hillary when he gets elected but broke his promise on that. he will break his promise on the wall but his followers believe him no matter what.

  • 0

    Wolfpack

    nishikat: No, they tried.

    Geez, turbostat did the research for you rebutting your assertions. You could at least add your own evidence to the discussion. I know you have a lot invested in Trumps failure but you cannot claim failure before he is even served out his term in office. Now what you can claim as a failure - unless something drastically changes in the next two weeks - is that Obama failed to close Gitmo. That is a failure. Trump's failure to build the wall and have Mexican's pay for it two weeks before he has taken office is nonsensical.

  • 1

    nishikat

    Geez, turbostat did the research for you rebutting your assertions

    2006 they tried and failed to build even a much smaller version of what Trump wants. Hillary and Obama even signed on as senators. It can't be built. You can't build a 50 foot by 2000 mile wall. The idea is ridiculous

  • 0

    kazetsukai

    The issue here is Obama trying to preserve Obamacare by using Democrats.

    In a country as large, diverse and divided with distinct need to recognize differences by States, it is extremely difficult to have a centralized Federally run socialized medical system. It is not Japan, or any other smaller compact and unified group in the world that socialized medicine "may" work. Even today Japan is facing major problems with their system with huge demand for taxes due to increase in senior care. Today Japan has a need to reduce benefits, add more restrictions and increase patient contribution.

    Given those scenarios, the old medical system prior to Obamacare at least with the additional Medicare program, if not for the graft and misuse of funds and benefits by all involved, was fair and working. It was not "equal" and was not expected to be equal, until Obamacare brought up the "equal" issue and that must cover every citizen (person?) because it was idealistically "humane" thing for a government to do.

    From that.., the population started to think that is was a "right" to have medical care and that the government must "provide" for each person's health. Added to that is the problem with medical benefits and social security benefits that provide for NOT working, due to medical conditions. Socialized medicine under Obamacare attached to Medicare now pays for people to NOT be productive. That in turn adds to the welfare rolls and misuse of taxes.

    Japan too has that same attitude today, but with a major difference. Other than wasting time and money at "Pachinko", most Japanese do not want to go to hospitals or visit the doctor and spend a lot on health foods and supplements. Obamacare already took its toll on the US economy and society. It has all the indications of getting worse even with patches made to it. The system and the structure are already in place with huge expense, so it is not easy to just dispense with it.

    But the biggest problem is the attitude and expectation of the people. Obamacare proved to mislead and hurt many with huge losses for the entire nation. So "Obamacare" by name must be eliminated and replaced by a new name. That is just to change the attitude and the expectation of the public.

    Obamacare itself is a big question as it represents national, socialized medical care. Not sure it can work within the USA and even if it did for how long. There are too many overlapping programs and issues such Social Security, Medicate, Veterans' Medical care and may more when you include State sponsored programs.

  • 0

    Wolfpack

    @sf2k: Public option is great. Some countries even include dental. It's worth it to be a citizen where the benefits outweigh the costs.

    That's quite the selfish view of citizenship. What happened to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"? Should JFK now be considered a Republican? A country in which the citizens expect more than they put in is a country headed for trouble. Government cannot provide what it's people are unable to produce for themselves. Thinking like that could lead a country to going into $20 trillion in debt fairly easily. Oh wait, America already is in debt by $20 trillion and adding another half trillion or so every year for as far as the eye can see.

    @kazetsukai: In a country as large, diverse and divided with distinct need to recognize differences by States, it is extremely difficult to have a centralized Federally run socialized medical system.

    kazetsukai is correct. America is too big and diverse for a centralized health care system. Let the states do their own thing. I don't know why Democrats are so against this idea. Far Left states like California can do whatever they like and milk Silicone Valley to their hearts content (well, at least until the money runs out). This allows for the most people to get the most of what they want from the government - whether that be freebies and dependency or to be left alone to pursue their own path in life. Its a win-win that the Left refuses to accept due to their fear that someone might do something that they are not in control of.

  • 0

    theFu

    I voted on 2 issues. ACA and HRC. It is costing my family over $6000/yr for less coverage and a higher deductible than pre-ACA. Ms. Clinton was going to keep it. I'm against that.

    I decided in 1996 that I'd never vote for another Clinton. I've met President Clinton back when he was Governor of Arkansas. My take was accurate - "typical politician. Says what they think you want to hear." Ms. Clinton is smarter than President Clinton. That scares me.

    The electoral college was designed to prevent popular vote from inflicting their desire onto the entire country. That is why we have a US Senate and why all but 1 state has a Senate - for the same reason. Protection of the minority against the tyranny of the majority is another reason for the electoral college. I always thought the Democrats since President Johnson was in favor of protecting minorities.

    I for one am happy that a vote in Montana or Alaska or Utah is worth more than a vote from either California or New York when it comes to national elections.

  • 0

    Strangerland

    The electoral college was designed to prevent popular vote from inflicting their desire onto the entire country.

    God forbid the choice of the people would be respected in a democracy.

    I for one am happy that a vote in Montana or Alaska or Utah is worth more than a vote from either California or New York when it comes to national elections.

    As you should be - it helped your side win. Without it, the will of the people would have been respected, and that can't be allowed to happen in a democracy right?

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