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Russia denies controlling pro-Moscow forces in Crimea

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And I'm the patriarch of Moscow....

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well if the forces are rogue elements, Russia won't mind if someone clears them out?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

But isn't that what communist USSR taught generations of citizens...er workers? Lie, cheat and steal.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It seems to me that the Russians are not sincere in this. Rather, their denial could be a symmetrical answer to the "we have nothing to do with it" stance of the new Ukrainian government regarding the killings of unarmed protesters and police @ Kiev's Maidan.

Estonian foreign minister U.Paet after visiting Kiev acknowledged in a phone conversation with EU foreign affairs chief C.Ashton that "all the evidence shows that ... they were the same snipers killing people from both sides" and "there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers ... was somebody from the new coalition." He also said that "they dont want to investigate what exactly happened."

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then they'll back down now that Ukrainians in Crimera are protesting larger than the Russians? No hum?

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“If they are the self-defense forces created by the inhabitants of Crimea, we have no authority over them,” Great statement spoken (lie) like a true politician. These "self-defense forces" are really well equip, but why the unmarked uniforms?,One would think they would at least let the people they are supposed to be protecting know who they are. Jeez, at least put the Ukranian flag symbol on the uniform.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Good. Now Ukrainian forces can move in and arrest them.

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@JTDanMan

Good. Now Ukrainian forces can move in and arrest them.

Exactly. But only if they follow the orders of their legitimate president.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

titiano

Enlighten me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

HAHA, wow. If these armed militants aren't Russian soldiers, then Russia shouldn't be opposed to Ukraine wiping them out with force right? I mean, what would Russia do if there were, say, Chechen militants trying to break away from Russia? Oh, wait..

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@JTDanMan

Enlighten me.

Thanks, but it is not me - it is the well-documented opinion of the majority of Crimean population.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Russians liars!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

From Russia, China, N.Korea to......, all these dictatorships have something in common: lying and assuming other peoples are their pawns. The E.U. and Obama talk about international law, Putin (and China, N.Korea) flex the muscle and twisting it according to their agenda. The West failed to deal with Ukraine in constructive way from intelligent gathering and reading the dark mind of Putin and his allies. Keep on talking, re-resetting the button, and I told you so.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

This article is mis-leading.

Quotes are taken out of context.

There are TWO separate components here.

1: Russia stated it has no control over the local population who have formed local "self-defence" groups. This is true, they do not control these Pro Russian groups.

2: Under the agreement with Ukraine Russia is allowed to station as many groups in the region as it likes. So "technically" they have not invade Ukraine as the West likes to say. They have a formal arrangement to be there and have a leased base in the region.

The US have a base in Okinawa ... they have a lease / an agreement to be there.

This whole situation is the result of the EU and the United States supporting the ousting of the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT.

This is the real question: IF RUSSIA HAS SUPPORTED THE OVER THROWING OF A PRO WEST DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT IN POLAND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE WEST WOULD HAVE DONE?

The western media paints these "demonstrators" as the good guys fighting the an evil dictator. THEY ARE NOT. They over threw the democratically elected government and installed themselves in power.

These are the people that LOST THE LAST ELECTION. When they won the electron previously, did Russia intervene and violently oust them NO!

Such complete double standards from the EU and US.

Do you know what the upside of all of this is? The US is now considering / looking into the possibility of quadrupling its gas exports to the EU now that sanctions on Russian / Ukraine gas is looking likely.

So the US supports the ousting of the democratically elected government. They do not do anything but talk loud and inflame the situation. They will not put any troops on the ground to "help" the people of Ukraine, but they will place sanctions on Russia (the major EU gas supplier) ..... and start exporting cheaper US fracked gas to the EU.

Its another win for US business interests.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The desire by Crimean Russians (and others) to be independent goes back to the breakup of the Soviet Union. Ukraine has countered this with concessions and threats. In the 1994 presidential and parliamentary Yuri Meshkov, a Russian nationalist, got a big majority of the vote. This followed a referendum for closer ties with Moscow with won by close to 80%. Kiev retaliated by abolishing the Autonomous Crimean Republic's presidency and sending in troops.

Russian Crimeans (58.32% of the population) and others have enough brown stamps saved up against Kiev to need Putin's commands to support the Russian occupation. Troops sent in are no doubt under the Kremlin's control.

Note that there have been violent protests against Kiev in other Ukrainian cities with Russian majorities. How much Russian troops are restraining the local population in Crimea is an open question

The fact is that when Mr. K. gave the Russian provence of Crimea to the Ukraine the Crimean people had no say in the matter. This has been an open sore since the break up of the Soviet Union--and might have been a closed sore before.

The real liars in this business are the Western media and Western leaders, including Obama, who will not admit that the majority of Crimean people welcomed the Russian occupation, which is not surprising, given their relations with Kiev over the last two decades.

Note that in other Russian-majority cities, Russians have been crying, "Putin, come!" I don't think he will. His primary concern is the Black Sea Fleet.

Russians and other minorities have reasons to fear the new unelected government. There are extreme right wing elements like Svoboda controlling ministries that are not only Russian-haters but also antisemitic. There has been increased antisemitic activity. So much so that Israel has sent advisors to Ukraine to help Jews cope.

The not happy fact is that now that the Russians are in Crimea they will need to stay there to protect Russian Crimeans and other foes of Kiev government from retaliation--not only from the Ukrainian military but also from thugs like Svoboda. The 30 March referendum, let's hope, will clear some of the air.

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@JanesBlonde, @Kabukilover

Very valid points. Sadly, posts like yours, that share objective facts and arguments seem to be so lonely. Thanks indeed!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@JanesBlonde: Mugabe, Napoleon and Hitler were all DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED too..

It's very common knowledge that Yanukovich was comically corrupt, with estimates coming to light now that up to $50 billion in government funds had at some point been transferred to private offshore bank accounts. Further, it was fairly obvious that he was just a puppet of Russia. Why anyone would defend the trampling of all dignity of the Ukrainian people is beyond reason.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Look, whatever Yanukovich was, he was neither Hitler nor Napoleon. The democratically elected government was overthrown by force and violence. That we can all accept. This is a government that is packed with rightists, including out and out fascists and anti-Semites.

The following is just in and appears authentic. The source is Estonia's Foreign Ministry. Here is the quote:

"The Estonian Foreign Ministry has confirmed the recording of his conversation with EU foreign policy chief is authentic. Urmas Paet said that snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were hired by Maidan leaders."

And: "During the conversation [with Catherine Ashton], [Estonian diplomat Urmas] Paet stressed that “there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition.”

Source: http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

This aside, no one is trampling on the dignity of the Ukrainian people more than its fascist-filled current government.

In all this mess, Putin is starting to smell like a rose, which is a shame. He is no rose. Given the situation in Kiev especially, it is high time that Crimea became an independent nation.

I truly wish that there was more intelligent discussion on this thread instead of off-the-cuff irrational and ignorant statements like the one answered here.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Look, whatever Yanukovich was, he was neither Hitler nor Napoleon. The democratically elected government was overthrown by force and violence. That we can all accept. This is a government that is packed with rightists, including out and out fascists and anti-Semites.

The democratically elected government still exists in the form of the Parliament of Ukraine, which voted to remove Yanukovich.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

" dcog9065 at Mar. 06, 2014 - 01:43PM JST @JanesBlonde: Mugabe, Napoleon and Hitler were all DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED too.."

We can add Obama to that list as well, but much more importantly what JanesBlonde posted is correct and the Western controlled media is as usual distorting the facts and instigating trouble. Lavrov is right.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

1: Russia stated it has no control over the local population who have formed local "self-defence" groups. This is true, they do not control these Pro Russian groups.

LOL

There are no local self-defense groups. They are Russian soldiers who have removed their identifying markings.

2: Under the agreement with Ukraine Russia is allowed to station as many groups in the region as it likes. So "technically" they have not invade Ukraine as the West likes to say. They have a formal arrangement to be there and have a leased base in the region.

Not true again. Russia is limited by treaty the amount of troops it can place in their Crimean bases. Furthermore, the agreement DOES NOT give them any right to freely move around as they please. And there is certainly no agreement that gives Russian soldiers the right to surround Ukrainian bases and keep Ukrainian soldiers prisoners in their own country.

I won't even dignify the way you tried to compare US bases in Japan with Russian actions in the Ukraine.

And finally, as I already mentioned, the DEMOCRATICALLY elected government of the Ukraine STILL EXISTS and is still in business, calling for the withdraw of the Russian invasion force.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Kabukilover: Wow, protesters shot themselves in the Ukraine protests?! Presumably to threaten Russia right? Reported by RT, which is owned by the Russian government (who is also currently invading Ukraine), so this of course is a completely impeccable source! This is the same news agency that reports that the soldiers who flew in to Crimea by helicopter and APCs from Russia aren't actually Russian. You've made very clear the level you're at, and I do agree that there should be more intelligent discussion on this forum.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So apparently while the Terrorist has replaced the Commie as the US's boogieman of choice, in Europe the Fascist is still going strong. What a handy chap! There's always a couple hiding around the corner or lurking in the bushes, allowing you to justify, well, just about anything really.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The protesters did not shoot themselves. That's not what the report said. I would have not trusted this report had it not come out of the Estonian Foreign Ministry. The Estonians have no love for the Russians. It could well be a mistake or shrewd disinformation. On the other hand, I would not put it past Svoboda to do something like this.

I have no illusions as to why Putin sent troops in, and whether they are Russians or Tartars is beside the point. Putin's primary concern was that the Black Sea Fleet might be endangered by the regime change. Whatever sentiments he has about Crimea's Russians are secondary. It so happens that the majority of the population of Crimea are welcoming Putin's move. I think naively, considering his priorities.

Yes, there is still a parliament. But the new president is unelected. And there are outright anti-Semites in his cabinet. The rise of antisemitism has become enough of a concern for Israel that they are sending advisors to Jewish communities in Ukraine. Go to the Simon Wiesenthal Center website for details and links.

Ukraine's internal problems would be off-topic were it not a potential threat to Crimean autonomy and physical safety. Should Ukraine send troops to put the Crimea in its place after the Russian troops leave we need to worry if Svoboda thugs will be tagging along to kill as many Crimean Russians as possible. And the troops will leave as soon as Putin is happy that the Black Sea Fleet is safe.

I believe that the best thing of Crimea is independence. From Ukraine and Russia.

Let me state this clearly. I do not like Putin. I do not like his tricks to stay perpetually in power, his homophobic laws, his crackdown on dissent and his ill-gotten wealth. I am not for his occupation of Crimea either, even if there are unintended positive sides to it (one, ironically, might be calming the Crimean majority who are mad as hell at Kiev).

This said, I am disgusted with what the Western media is avoiding in the crisis. Amazing that people will not trust the Russian news agency when it might be reporting the truth will uncritically trust the Western media, which is far from objective.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Estonian Foreign Ministry did not send that report about the protestors being sniped by right-wing Ukrainians. That is just made up reporting from RT. Is there any other media reporting it?

And the Ukrainians do not need to send troops to the Crimea to put them in their place. They already have troops there - you know, the guys currently being held hostage by the Russian military. There were no backlashes against ethnic Russians in the region to justify the invasion. Russia is just breaking off a strategically important piece of a country that increasingly does not want to be part of their sphere of influence.

It's like America breaking off pieces of Japan because Tokyo doesn't want to be so close an ally anymore.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"The Estonian Foreign Ministry did not send that report about the protestors being sniped by right-wing Ukrainians. That is just made up reporting from RT." If that is true RT gets no hugs from me. So Upgrayedd, where is your evidence for all of this. Not being reported on the Western media is not evidence.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yeah right, Putin. Pull the other one.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So Upgrayedd, where is your evidence for all of this. Not being reported on the Western media is not evidence.

Um, it's not an accurate report.

The phone call was real but what the Estonian diplomat actually said was that an unnamed doctor told him that the opposition hired the snipers. He was just talking about rumors he heard about.

The Estonians followed up by saying this:

"Foreign minister Paet was giving an overview of what he had heard in Kiev and expressed concern over the situation on the ground. We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition's involvement in the violence.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

pro-Moscow forces that have taken de-facto control of Ukraine’s majority-Russian Crimean Peninsula.

Back in 1999, pro NATO forces called as Kosovo liberation Army campaigned Serbian Law enforcement force. It is identical with pro Russian force of Crimea who are controlling the Peninsula. Kosovo was heavily populated by ethnic Albanians Muslims. NATO mercilessly bombed Serbia for supporting KLA campaign.

KLA was regarded by the United States, the United Kingdom and France as a terrorist group until 1998, when it was de-listed without explanation Yugoslavia has been chopped as many pieces after west intervention. West has double standard and they will use any rebel as fair weather friends for their interest.

Whether West like it or not, Crimea will be disintegrated from Ukraine as Kosovo. Crimea residents will not accept new president of Ukraine. However former president will not be accepted by Ukrainians too. They will never tolerate each other and there will be more bloodshed. If there is no Russia troops, Ukraine will become another chaotic nightmare of Arab Spring.

Instead of hostile ethnic people keep fighting for domination, Crimea partition should be welcomed as old models of Kosovo, Pakistan, Bangladesh which have become the new nationhood.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So, if these "self-defense forces" ever suffer some fatalities, they're not gonna be buried in Russia, right?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

dcog9065MAR. 06, 2014 - 01:43PM JST @JanesBlonde: Mugabe, Napoleon and Hitler were all DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED too..

And so was GW Bush ... Twice .... "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice and you deserve me for president." Look how much much suffering and loss of life that guy and his "Team America" caused. How many people have been killed by Putin? .... NOT ONE!

dcog9065 It's very common knowledge that Yanukovich was comically corrupt

YES HE IS and so are 95% of Ukraine politicians. Tymoshenko "The great opposition leader" is rotten to the core. She was in jail for selling gas deals to RUSSIA and taking massive kick backs.... OMG the great western favourite ... she didn't do the west any favours when she we in charge.

Ukraine politicians switch sides like the weather. They are all corrupt. - So what is your point?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

For rogue elements they are very well kitted out, with state of the art ballistic armour and helmets, modern uniforms and the latest AK models. Experts are saying these guys are either paras or Spetznaz sepcial forces. At first I thought they were Naval Infantry from the Black Sea Fleet bases, but looking at them they are too well kitted out to be anything other than elite troops. They are definitely Russian - Ukranian forces are pretty poor compared to these guys.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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